Canada’s Department of National Defence has released a long overdue Draft Tender for the C22 Modular Pistol which is a 9mm striker fired, semi-automatic, recoil-operated, magazine fed pistol to replace their long serving Browning Hi-Powers.
Here is the tender’s definition of modular:
According to the draft, they are seeking a full sized pistol, with three grip sized housings: small, medium and large. This requirement can be achieved by offering a single frame with small, medium and large backstraps.
They also seek different models of right and left hand Level 2 polymer holsters for the pistol.
Here’s a smattering of requirements:
DND expects a 35,000 service life, with a mean rounds between stoppages rating of 2,000 rounds for Class 1 stoppages, 2,000 rounds for Class 2 stoppages, and 5,000 rounds for Class 3 stoppages.
The C22 FF pistol must be operable and able to fire three full magazines in 60 seconds without cooling the pistol.
The C22 FF pistol must have a separately demandable replacement slide configured to mount commercially available reflex/red dot sight (e.g. Leupold DeltaPoint® Pro, Trijicon RMR® or similar) at the rear of the slide in front of the rear sights.
The pistol must be Flat Dark Earth in color and offer a 17 round magazine.
In addition to offering a threaded barrel, the vendor must also offer a suppressor that can achieve an 18 dB noise reduction.
Yes, DND also has a drop test requirement, which is the same one used by US DoD:
The C22 FF pistol in its operational state (full magazine with a primed cartridge in the chamber) must not discharge when dropped 1.5 m, onto a concrete backed, 5 cm thick plywood surface, IAW TOP 03-2-045A section 4.8.2 1.5 Meter (5 Feet) Drop or AC/225(LG/3-SG/1)D/14 section 2.10.8 Safety Drop Test 1.5 Meter or an alternative test approved by the technical authority using the following drop orientations:
Muzzle Down: Muzzle must be the closest part of the pistol to the concrete floor;
Muzzle Up: Muzzle must be the farthest part of the pistol to the concrete floor;
Slide Up (Horizontal); Top of the slide must be the farthest part of the pistol to the concrete floor;
Slide Down (Horizontal): Top of the slide must be the closest part of the pistol to the concrete floor;
Right Side (Horizontal): Right side of the pistol must be oriented as the closest part of the pistol to the concrete floor;
Left Side (Horizontal): Left side of the pistol must be oriented as the closest part of the pistol to the concrete floor.
After each drop (3.21.1.1-3.21.1.6) each pistol must fire 15 rounds of ammunition.
Overall, it sounds an awful lot like the US issue Modular Handgun System which is manufactured by SIG SAUER.
Industry insiders expect pushback on the module requirement which can only be fulfilled by a couple of vendors such as SIG and Walther. Particularly after the SIG P320 was recently withdrawn from service by Canadian Special Operations Command (CANSOF). However, this draft tender was released after the CANSOF incident came to light, indicating DND is dedicated to obtaining a modular pistol.
Dumb question. (Maybe). What is class 2 & 3 penetration?
Since CZ bought Colt, it’d be interesting to see them submit the CZ P10 produced at Colt Canada’s facilities
If the vendor must offer a suppressor then does that preclude Gastons plastic gun from consideration? Any other requirements that seem written to keep Gaston out?
Anyone know if Gaston’s prior history has resulted in requirements being written specifically to keep the Gaston plastic gun out? If so, examples?
Glock does, or at least did, offer a little clip on suppressor. I think it used wipes and was considered disposable.
So why must a procurement office write only requests that meets Glocks offerings. Military units write proposals for what they require in an item to be bought.
It’s up to the manufacturer to meet those requirements, not the other way around.
Actually the point of my question is the exact opposition. I am not a fan of Gaston’s plastic gun (terrible ergonomics, even worse trigger, propensity to stove pipe in compromised shooting positions) and even less of a fan of how Gaston’s company perpetuates the delusion of “glock perfection.” Hey Gaston: not every malfunction is shooter error!
The narcissism of Gaston’s company is nearly without compare and I wonder if that attitude and their practices have so alienated buyers such as governmental entities that they will write bids specifically so that Gaston’s plastic guns will not qualify. I.e., adding details or requirements knowing that Gaston will be excluded.
I don’t blame them. I simply inquire if that is what is happening, at least partially, with this bid request.
Just type “glock”, it isn’t going to summon a demon or anything.
Weird? I’ve used Glocks for decades, overseas, in the service and contracting. Never had a stoppage or stove pipe from shooting in modified shooting positions. I shot them upside down, under vehicles, lying on the ground. Mine always ran like a Swiss watch (I wear Omega but prefer Rolex!). Please elaborate on your years of experience with Glocks.
They are looking for a modular firing assembly, so mainly Sig & Beretta so far.
Standard Canadian procurement. Either specify something that doesn’t actually exist or sole source something that has no purpose being sole sourced. What a JOKE.
Unless I missed a detail in the article, the modular Beretta APX Combat and Steyr A2 MF would join the Sig m17 and Walther PDP. Of these four only the Steyr isn’t offered optics ready to consumers.
As written the PDP does not meet the modular requirement. Walther used the word modular to indicate that any slide size will function on any frame size. It is no more modular than the Glock 19 and 47 combo.
Any other excuses this time to not chose a Glock? Love SIGs, but G’s Simply proved that whenever they were putted to the test, they just simply WORKS!
Another specified requirement is that the pistol must have either a striker deactivator or other mechanism to allow disassembly without pulling the trigger. That would seem to exclude Glock, unless they make a specific variant to meet this requirement.
The Glock design still doesn’t meet the modular trigger pack requirement though.
I did not mention them. Specifically, Glock is beside themselves because they cannot compete for this requirement. It is widely believed that they are behind the disclosure about the training injury involving the P320 at CANSOF.
Where can I find info about this P320 incident at CANSOF?
Got you fam-
https://soldiersystems.net/2021/02/05/sig-sauer-statement-on-cansofcom-incident/
Word! Thank you
This website covered it.
Ok! Easy Eric, in your old age you’re sure getting pithy! I’m not able read every article, everyday, MY Bad.
the link was literally in this article though. 😉
What Strike Hold! said.
It would not surprise me one bit if this was written with the SIG M17/M18 very much in mind as the end goal. The Canadian DND does have a long history of adopting basically the same equipment as the US – but going through an entire lengthy process first to make it appear as though that wasn’t their goal right from the outset.
I’m just surprised they didn’t specify that the color should be CAG (Canadian Average Green)….
Reading carefully, and as with the U.S. solicitation, “modular” also could mean the pistol(s) can merely have back-straps having small, medium, large sizes. A separate fire-control-group enabling swapping between entire different polymer frames is not absolutely required.
I do wonder, if Glock competes, what suppressor it’ll use or if Glock will make its own.
Read more carefully.
Read the caption under the picture.
Read more carefully,
Read the caption under the photo.
I am interested in acquiring one of those Canadian military Hi Power’s on the surplus market.
Unfortunately, Canada does not surplus firearms- we melt them down. There have been several plans to replace the pistols over the years, and every time it has been made clear that all will be smelted down completely.
The only way to acquire a Canadian made Inglis high power is to find one that already exists on the open market- which is rather rare.
Lol,
I *might* take a milsurp hipower if you gave it to me for free…
So first off the Cansofcom ‘misfire’ was proven to not be firearm related rather the CANSOF member was using a repurposed P226 holster which allowed something to enter the trigger and fire the action. In the US the M17 beat out all competition in testing as did the 226 when it was tested against the Beretta . The Beretta was purchased due to cost savings.
No such thing has been “proven”. CANSOFCOM pulled them all out of circulation and made no public statement- this info was leaked by someone. Sig has has made a statement and they are claiming it was all the fault of the holster. While anything is possible, no claims have been proven anywhere.
While user error is always worth investigating- realize that NDs/UDs, injuries and incidents happen with every weapon system due to user error- but I have heard of zero other times when they were straight up recalled by the CAF. With that and the pending Sig lawsuits (claiming similar issues), it is worth waiting until more information is made public.
8th attempt to replace a 70 year old pistol is the charm right?
Given those parameters the options are:
S&w m&p,
sig 320,
Glock 17 (or 19 with 17 mag)
and Walther ppq…..
the two that make the most sense are Sig for cross compatibility with the US armed forces or glock for cross compatibility with UK forces…… frankly the market is full of fucking pistols that work