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I get questions all the time from students asking if they should run a red dot sight or a variable power optic on their carbine. My answer is simple; how do you expect to use the rifle in the real world? If you honestly believe any realistic shot will be within 100 meters then a good red dot sight will most likely do fine. If you expect to take shots beyond 100 meters and those shots are morally and legally justifiable then a 1-4 or 1-6 magnified optic has real merit. On my primary BCM training carbine I use an Aimpoint Micro instead of a magnified optic. I have BCM rifles setup with variable power optics but I have weighed the pros and cons and for me a red dot makes more sense. Give this topic serious thought before you decide which direction to go in. As always be safe and see you at the range!
Larry Vickers
Vickers Tactical Inc.
Host of TacTV
Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical is a retired US Army 1st SFOD-Delta combat veteran with years of experience in the firearms industry as a combat marksmanship instructor and industry consultant. In recent years he has hosted tactical firearms related TV shows on the Sportsman Channel with the latest being TacTV of which Bravo Company is a presenting sponsor. Larry Vickers special operations background is one of the most unique in the industry today; he has been directly or indirectly involved in the some of the most significant special operations missions of the last quarter century. During Operation Just Cause he participated in Operation Acid Gambit – the rescue of Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama City, Panama. As a tactics and marksmanship instructor on active duty he helped train special operations personnel that later captured Saddam Hussein and eliminated his sons Uday and Qusay Hussein. In addition he was directly involved in the design and development of the HK416 for Tier One SOF use which was used by Naval Special Warfare personnel to kill Osama Bin Laden. Larry Vickers has developed various small arms accessories with the most notable being his signature sling manufactured by Blue Force Gear and Glock accessories made by Tangodown. In addition he has maintained strong relationships with premium companies within the tactical firearms industry such as BCM, Aimpoint, Black Hills Ammunition, Wilson Combat and Schmidt & Bender.
With over 300,000 subscribers, his Youtube channel features a new firearms video every Friday.
Larry Vickers travels the country conducting combat marksmanship classes for law abiding civilians, law enforcement and military and works with Aztec Training Services to coordinate classes to best meet the needs of the students attending the class.
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And what about iron sights? They also offer some advantages over the other aiming solutions.
I was thinking the same thing.
Hmmmm…since LAV was addressing student questions about whether they should run red dots or variable power optics it makes sense that he would answer that question rather than talk about iron sights.
Exactly, he’s answering that specific question about,”..run a red dot sight or a variable power optic…”.
Having taken his carbine course, we had conversations about many things, including this. We also talked about his thoughts on iron sights.
For those that are curious, looking at the above picture of LAV holding a carbine might give folks an idea of his feelings on iron sights.
Yup but there are more disadvantages than advantages.
Now that, sir, is a genuinely idiotic remark. Congratulations to you.
I’m not sure, but perhaps Kango was referencing the disadvantages of iron sights as opposed to RDS or “other aiming solutions”? That was the way I read it anyway. Hard to tell.
And your reading comprehension is piss poor. I replied directly to Paul not you.
Congrats to you moron.
Please spell out the ‘advantages’… all I can see is doesn’t require a battery?
Name one thing you can do with a dot that can not be done with a variable power true 1-4 or 1-6? I have tested it, for me they are the same at close quarters but the variable power allows more ability at greater distances and you can use it for gathering information. The eye box is bigger for a dot, that is it.
The dot is also less expensive, smaller and lighter weight.
For me, one big advantage to iron sights is that they don’t fog up when you are breathing heavily in very low temperatures. If you are truly huffing and puffing then it can be quite hard not to fog up an optic, even when it’s mounted at the front of the receiver. This is also true when the optic itself is chilled from being outside in below freezing temps and you enter a heated structure/vehicle. Instant condensation. Not inside the tube, but outside. Obviously this is a non issue for many climates. I switch to an AK with irons(and flashlight) as a go-to rifle when temps go below 0.
I’m nearsighted like a lot more people now, and I don’t usually have my correction on me. I can have a crisper sight picture/target picture through pipe sights that I can without. That’s an advantage over the red dot.
They’re always on, and always ready ; you don’t have to change your settings (zoom, illumination) but you sill rely on an external power source : light.
Another advantage is the compatibility. Most people aren’t tactical so their firearms aren’t too. Most firearms will not accept optics without some modifications ; and most of them are equipped with iron sights.
A good student asks thoughtful questions. A great instructor provides answers using simple concepts and structured questions one can ask themselves to make informed decisions.
Thanks Larry for always being “that guy” who continues to give of himself to better others. I look forward to the return of GM.
Cannot agree or disagree with Mr. Vickers regarding red dots inside of 100 yards. For me, the dot works per Mr. Vickers but, I can’t get over the fuzziness of the dot.
I’ve recently been converted to the Trijicon TA-47 w/yellow chevron, 2x ACOG, from an Aimpoint T-2. After seeing an acquaintance’s TA-47 I couldn’t believe the clarity and crispness of the reticle vs the 2 MOA red dot (I have aging eyes BTW). It weighs little more than the T-2 and is a bit longer. However, the small amount of magnification may be more helpful than a 2 MOA dot if you’re trying to put one into Hajii’s sneaker peakin’ out from under a car bumper at 125 meters. Surprisingly, the Bindon concept works well with the TA-47. I’ve found engaging pie plates at 7-10 yards to be no more difficult than using a red dot.
The negatives of the TA-47, for me are:
1. Inability to control reticle brightness.
2. Cost (2x more than a T-1 or MRO).
3. No setting for night vision.
4. If want NV capabilty would need to add a IR laser device. More expense.
However, the solution to 3 & 4 is to carry a zeroed Aimpoint or MRO in your cargo pocket for switching out for NV use.
So, there are no “one size fits all” devices when it comes to optics. There are always numerous options. But, at the moment, the Trijicon TA-47 has replaced my T-2.
Be safe. Be careful.
If you have an astigmatism and can’t get past the blurry dot, that’s understood. It can be frustrating. The red dot itself is not blurry – it’s your vision. To test. Take your cell phone as look through the red dot sight with the camera – you’ll see a perfectly round dot – because it is.
I’ve found, for me, that a good set of fixed iron sights (my red dots are all co-witness) eliminates my astigmatism since I’m looking through the peep. I highly recommend DD’s fixed sights for this.
Sounds like you’ve found your solution in a Trijicon ACOG – which are absolutely fantastic sights – just posting this for others who may have an astigmatism and already own a T-1, T-2, PRO, MRO, etc… Try the fixed sights and see if the blurry red dot goes away for you. Good luck!
I just got one of the DanDef fixed front sights delivered a few days ago. Will try your suggestion. Thanks !
I believe you can buy prism sights that circumvents that problem
http://monstrumtactical.com/blogs/guides/80567043-the-prism-scope-vs-the-traditional-red-dot-sight
I would try a vortex spitfire
For pure sight picture, press purposes I agree, the one caveat I would add though, for us LEO’s is threat assessment. It’s much easier to identify a cell phone, as compared to a small handgun, in someone’s hand, at 4x (ACOG), instead of through a red dot, with no magnification. In urban workspace, the range is almost always less than 100 yards/meters on contacts, but on overwatch, I still prefer the ACOG for that reason alone.
The magnification is certainly a deciding factor for many shooters.
Why does every idiot in the universe feel the need to chime in and offer yet another opinion? If you can’t change a battery once a year in an optic with proven performance then you should probably stick with iron sights. Make sure you also ditch your flashlight and get a kerosene lantern as well so your batteries don’t die.
The question was very specifically addressing the question of a red dot type optic v. a magnified type optic. If your eyes are fucked up, that’s your problem and it also wasn’t part of the equation.
Great idea with the kerosene lantern. I just picked one up today at your suggestion.
Why does every idiot in the universe feel the need to chime in and offer yet another opinion?
WKL,
First off it appears you’re directing your insults to my remarks. I’m not an “idiot” as you cared to reference my remarks And if you whine you were not addressing my “opinion” I would suggest you return to 2nd grade and learn how to address your marks to a specific individual.
Secondly, “Fucked up” eyes are every bit a part of the equation, every damn bit. And for your information tough, anonymous, keyboard warrior….the comments section of ANY Internet forum or blog is about opinions, whether you like it or not. If you don’t like remarks/comments/opinions going where YOU think they should be going….don’t read them !
Here’s a closing suggestion for you seeing as your mother and father didn’t teach you any manners….don’t insult or name call people’s remarks with comments you wouldn’t say to their face.
Grow up.
Assholes are like opinions….everyone’s got one!
IMHO, anyway
I’ve always said that opinions are like assholes, stop sharing yours. (Not directed at you.)
Dan III,
If the shoe fits, stick it in your ass. What you did was insert was interject your personal problem (old eyes) into the situation. That again wasn’t part of the discussion. As with everything else in life, a person has to make choices and base them off of their PARTICULAR situation. Notice Larry didn’t say; By the way if you Astigmatism then you should do this or do that. He was addressing the issue in the simplest of forms.
Christ, guys. Chill pills all around. There are better things to be profane about.