New American flags in the OCP color scheme are showing up in Afghanistan. Interestingly, they are in a Green dominant colorway. Yesterday, we showed you OCP MOLLE with Green PALS webbing. Is this a trend?
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We had them last year during OEF-XX, can’t remember the source. Not a new thing.
Jon, OPT
SSD (and others),
Now that we have velcro patches anyway, what does everyone think of changing Army policy to have full color SSI’s in garrison and subdued ones in only field and deployed environments? At the very least, when you would wear a beret with ACU’s (e.g. promotion ceremony, grad ceremony, change-of-command) you would break out the full-color SSI’s. Thoughts?
Also, the photo from the 75th Ranger Regiment ceremony make color SSI’s look good. However, in one photo they’re wearing subdued SSI’s (2nd BN) and in the other, color (can’t tell which BN). Was there regimental guidance put out regarding those decisions? Army guidance? SSD, can you shed any light?
I definitely agree. Hell, since we got rid of the greens, we don’t ever see color patches anymore.
Interesting.
This is an example of a cheap-to-implement process today (since we no longer have a doctrinal use for the full-color unit patches still in the system) that will impose expenses down the line (when the supply of full-color unit patches is exhausted).
That’s the fiscal consideration.
The heraldic consideration is that units have histories, and a subdued-only patch may not pay appropriate tribute to that history. Might this be a fiscally sustainable way to keep that history alive, both while a Soldier is serving and after s/he’s left the ranks?
Flipside is that Marines don’t have unit patches or crests and they have no difficulty maintaining a personal connection with the organizations they serve(d) with…
It’s a new thing if it is being provided through Army Direct Ordering (ADO).
Yes, it is
Why are the flags back-to-front?
They’re worn on the right shoulder… The blue field should always face forward as if the flag was being carried into battle.
Something along those lines.
The flag patches are back-to-front (ie: bass-ackwards), because of the almost singular institutional myopism of the US Army. Someone made the correct observation that when marching with a flag (a real, 3-dimensional flag fluttering from a staff), the blue field, view from either side, is correctly to the fore.
Then “they” made the fundamental error of thinking that should somehow be forced to a right-shoulder flag PATCH. However, a flag PATCH is NOT an real, 3-dimensional FLAG, it is a 2-dimensional DEPICTION of the flag. Therefore, it should simply be worn (“displayed”) correctly: with the blue field to the observer’s left. The backwards flag patches are an abomination which should not be suffered to exist.
Multiple readings of the US Flag Code, as well as the historical precedent of the wear of flag insignia on uniforms (paratroopers on D-Day, Neil and Buzz on the moon, etc), as well as the display practices of other states and nations which also have a non-symmetrical flag, disclose no valid, logically correct, protocol correct, or aesthetically sound justification for these backwards flag patches.
Bottom line, the backwards image flag patches are well intended, but ultimately improper display of the IMAGE of the flag (not the flag itself), and is a case of the US Army getting it flat wrong.
Isn’t this how the flag is displayed on EMS/EMT vehicles as well?
There’s not an “ambalance-specific” protocol for the display of the Colors.
They’re displayed on EMS/EMT vehicles because someone said, “Get us a bunch of flag stickers for the rigs.”
They didn’t say, “Get 20 stickers for proper display of the Colors on the LEFT of the vehicle, 20 stickers for proper display of the Colors on the RIGHT of the vehicle.”
When this stuff is done properly, there’s usually a vet or an Eagle Scout or equivalent at the end of the line.
It is also displayed that way on Navy ships and AF Planes, as if it was a flag carried into battle. After all it is a representation of actual colors.
Every time I see a security guard / emt / whoever, wearing a “forward” flag on the right shoulder, it just looks weird. And backwards.
I first saw and educated myself on the practice of “reversing” the flag when displayed on the right when I first sat the starboard side of the Space Shuttle.
It made sense to me there, and it makes sense if we are going to continue wearing it on the right shoulder of uniforms.
We get confused enough about which direction is forward.
I like the new flag. I’ve never understood, or had it explained to me in a logical manner as to why we wear full color flags at home. If the SSI’s are subdued, the flag be also.
Because, “These colors don’t run!”
Couldn’t you say the same about the colors in the SSI?
I agree; feel like it should be consistent.
Color SSI + Color Flag
or
Subdued SSI + Subdued Flag
No. The Colors are in every sense “superior” to the SSI. It’s my opinion that there is no conflict.
Drove me freaking nuts that the Colors were beneath the SSI-FWTS back in the BDU/DCU era.
Drove me crazy too. Makes me wonder if the person in charge of the decision had an SSI-FWTS and didn’t want to have to remove it and get it sewn on again after sewing on their flag. Instead, he just slapped it on under his SSI-FWTS.
I think you misunderstood what we were getting at. It wasn’t an order of precedence issue (flag on top vs flag below patch) it was a color issue. If we’re going to continue to wear unit patches, SSI-FWTS, skill badges, rank and skill tabs in a subdued color then the flag should also be subdued. If the full color patches, silver badges, etc. come back for garrison use then there’s no issue with a full color flag.
Green is the new Brown.
You say that now. Watch new boots come out that are green.
strike dont jinx us man the army might get those damn green airforce boots :O
.. *Clutches a bible and an M4 in arms*
It was my understanding that the plastic hardware and other non camo trimming was to stay in Tan 499? has there been an announcement that states otherwise?
I’ve never seen anything but IR flags downrange. When did we start wearing cloth flags?
Installation commanders can authorize subdued flags for field wear. Hood had that policy, though it might have changed with the new corps commander. I haven’t heard anything yet. BUT, its one of those things where in practice, if everyone isn’t wearing it you’re probably going to get crap for being different.
Suprised to see nobody has pointed out that OCP unit patches have always been olive-dominant, with black thread. On that level, this makes sense, and is certainly cheaper than giving everyone IR flags, and makes those easier to use as an IFF measure because chai boys aren’t stealing them.
I was in-theater when we got the “official” word for OCP. Those folks whose first inclination was to put velcro on everything–and who had been wearing modded DCUs since ’01-’02–just went with desert patches they kept on their cigar-smoking gear. At least those who had a spare to give the Boss. Looked waay better than foliage patches at the time.
Wearing our flag in garrison in the 50 states is damn ridiculous. No shit, you’re in the US Army and you don’t need a flag to remind you what constitution/country you swore an oath too.
Green is more common than tan. Brown, maybe not, but more than tan.
Tan and black was so mid-2000’s. Let’s be practical here.
There’s a potential institutional issue – do we make up a different color patch for one uniform, then order more for others?
Woodland is still in use in tropical regions, an OD and Black patch fits there. Same for green pals webbing, the camo tests forecast the web gear needed to be cross compatible with the other camos used for those environments.
Green is a dominant item for contract suppliers, why not use it? We have since WWII. It’s not all about desert tan now, the service is post OEF and looking forward for the next environment.