In early 2012 a group of USMC Scout Snipers brought dishonor on themselves and the country when photos of them standing in front a flag emblazoned with Nazi symbols were made public. Naturally, once they were called out on the practice by responsible parties, the behavior ceased. As a community, Marine Corps Scout Snipers moved on. However, despite the fact that this was all over the news and Internet, a Facebook page that makes the following claim has popped up, “A page dedicated to keeping the SS symbol alive and well in the Marine Scout Sniper community”. The argument holds that SS stands for Scout Sniper and it’s just a coincidence (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) that the stylized version of the SS looks exactly like a Nazi symbol.
The Sigrune SS symbol used in the Facebook header photo is unique to Nazism and is nothing to be proud of. In fact, it is so heinous, it is illegal in modern Germany. The side by side lightning bolt symbol was created specifically for Nazi Germany’s Schutzstaffel, a paramilitary organization that swore allegiance to Adolph Hitler. One of the SS’s elements was responsible for instituting the “Final Solution” or genocide of not only European Jews but also those of many other ethnic groups including Roma (Gypsies) and Slavs. All-in-all it is estimated that the SS was responsible for the killing, torture, and enslavement of approximately twelve million people.
Hardly something to want to emulate or hold dear. The owners of the MarineCorpsSS page should be ashamed and anyone who supports them should be as well. The US suffered almost 200,000 KIA in wiping the Nazi menace from the earth. Those who emulate our enemies dishonor our dead and the sacrifice of our greatest generation. Worse yet, the behavior is being perpetuated by those associated with the military. How can anyone justify the adoption of a symbol associated with such abhorrent behavior?
The Facebok page is www.facebook.com/MarineCorpsSS
UPDATE – Since I worked on the article last night, the owners of the Facebook page have updated their small icon so that those not directly looking at the page will not see the use of the SS runes.
I guess this introduces an interesting issue I hadn’t even considered. I know that the SS runes were used by Scout Snipers, but what about the average person that doesn’t know this and just sees the runes associated in some way with the EGA? This takes on a whole new aspect now doesn’t it? The context is lost and the Marine Corps is directly associated with Nazism. Even worse…
Let me say that first off I completely agree with everythin you just said and my next point is just for the sake of proving a point maybe, or maybe im just trying to find some good in what they do.. I dont know. But the Swastika was a symbol used in many religions/philosophies over the world for a long time and literally means “to be good”. Maybe the nazis thought they were being good, maybe they jst thought it looked cool and took it.
Again I agree with the article 100% , I guess i just am trying to find some good in it.
Read up on the history of Nazi symbolism and answer those questions for yourself. I appreciate your intent, but there’s not really any “guessing” about how they chose/deployed their symbolism.
This is not about the Swastika though, just the stylised SS rune’s used here.
Nazi version is backwards and angled, it would be like taking a cross and turning it upside down. Not quite the same symbol then.
I just wonder how these guys will feel when AlQueda and Hajji symbolism is adopted in 30 or 40 years by American motorcycle gangs and AD military? Seriously, we defended the free world against Nazis in WWII… Why would it not be OK to adopt the symbols of the old USSR or Hezbollah if it’s acceptable to use Nazi symbolism… Oh, right, the Nazis were more fashionable, I forgot.
They had the best uniforms hands down simply because they were designed by Hugo Boss…
Did you defend the free world against nazi’s? Beside the guys that started the moorcycle “gangs” clubs and adopted the Runes were the very ones who fought against the nazi’s. The very scout snipers that were formed and adopted the SS for scout sniper were the ones who fought the nazi’s. Btw many men and women have taken the name infidel and ran with it. We are the infidels and we love it. Go get a life and watch the ellen show.
That would be a great story except that Marines didn’t fight in the European theater. Marines didn’t fight Nazis. The Army did.
But… You never actually answered the question. Will you be OK when the symbolism of our current enemies are adopted by future generations? I get your point, but you didn’t actually address my questions… And who’s ellen? I don’t watch TV.
Re: Infidel… http://www.deathvalleymag.com/2011/07/15/tactical-commentary-infidel-shirts-are-fucking-stupid/
You can see “Infidel” paints, stickers and such in every military base in Afghanistan right now… if you need a quick example: http://kitup.military.com/2011/09/imint-team-america-finds-a-box-of-krylon.html
You REALLY want to compare the use of “infidel” with SS runes? You have little appreciation for history.
@majrod,
Sorry for writing up here, but the Reply line didn’t appear under your comment for me.
No, I’m not comparing the use of Infidel with SS logos, I was giving an answer to Ash, using an example of how the term Infidel, used by the current enemies to the Western troops is at the same time used and enjoyed as a way of “yes, I’m a fucking infidel, and I’m gonna fill your head with lead”.
In no way I’m saying that use is transferable to the Scout Sniper use of SS runes. Marines didn’t fight nazis.
Yeah, checked it out… If you read the article or the comments, you can tell this wasn’t taken too seriously, and plenty of folks thought it was stupid. Can you provide an actual picture of Infidel stuff on “every military base in Afghanistan right now”? I’m thinkin’ big N-O on that one. Thanks for trying, tho.
No, I haven’t fought any National Socialists personally, but my grandfather gave some other historically misguided folks a piece of his mind: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hayes_Pond#_
+1 to your grandfather!
Battle of Hayes Pond – great piece of history. I had no idea. This is the kind of thing that makes me come back to this blog. And yes, +1 to your grandfather. He’s a man to be proud of.
Thanks, guys. I think it’s an example of what happens when citizens step up for themselves, and not wait for The State to protect them.
Fighting with spears? and winning against the KKK? in the South?
Definitely worth the fight.
Sometimes Marines do dumb things, trust me. As a Marine I’ve seen my fare share. Normally NCO’s and Officers can kill stupid before it comes to light, but with today’s technology somethings just never die. And Marines fight, that’s what they do. So Marines will do things just to fight about it.
Don’t we have better things to worry about? You know, like things that actually hurt our Marines?
Maybe if we put half the effort that’s put into stamping out the SS imagery into combating drunk driving, wasting money on hookers, and all the other things that will be a real detriment our Marines would be a little better off.
See Terminal Lance’s comic and write up about this too.
You have to really sit down and think about the guys who want to cling to this symbology and ask yourself why. What is in their hearts that they hold this so dear? There’s dumb, and there’s evil. Someone who wants to emulate the genocidal even after they’ve been told to stop? I’m going with evil. Now that is something can actually hurt Marines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_OezlTZ1A&t=0m42s
You mean this one?
http://terminallance.com/2012/02/10/terminal-lance-insspiration/
Great point SSD. Everyone should check out the cartoon and compare it to the logic of those defending the use of SS runes. Marines are badazz enough. They don’t need Nazi symbology.
@Joe… honor and integrity are important things to worry about. Making sure that units don’t dishonor themselves (and the rest of the military) by using symbolism from a past evil is just as important as the ‘real’ detriments to our Marines you describe.
End the hated and evil bluetooth symbol as well. It was used on the ss ring….
This is just as stupid as the many fashionable liberals wearing “fashionable” Che and communist symbols. Where is the outcry’there?
They aren’t Marines.
Thank you.
Get a goddamn grip…have em burn shitters for a week and forget about it.
So the scout snipers cant have SS on anything cuz it looks like the original SS, and i get it they arent Marines but have u ever seen pictures of the rock band KISS? America the most powerful and greatest Nation in the world has for years chosen to include ancient pagan and occult symbols nearly everywhere. Im not some whacko conspiracy nut job just trying to bring an oz. Of objectivity, I am not an 0317 but as an 0311 I have had the pleasure of serving alongside some of Americas most feared warriors
Who cares what a rock band does? Rock bands paint their hair pink and pierce their lips. Should Marines do that to? Is that who you look to as an example to emulate?
Personally I think what the Third Reich did was absolutely appalling and they should be killed in every way shape and form. The physical form was destroyed but the ideals somehow seem to linger. As far as I can tell, the SS symbol was created by the regime based of an old nordic rune for the word “sun” but that doesn’t mean they should own it. I’d rather see these symbols freed from the bad image that they have been given. Same with the swastika…in use for over 2000 years by numerous societies and yet somehow we’ve managed to associate it as a symbol of hatred and intolerance from events that occurred 70 years ago. I’m not saying that we should forget the past but symbols and ideas are only given power if you recognize them as such. Hatred like that needs to just die off and stay in history books as a reminder to society of what should never be allowed to happen again.
When you trivialize it, it loses its meaning. Don’t trivialize genocide.
Trivialize genocide? How exactly do you think that you would trivialize genocide by killing the stigma associated with symbols that had once been used as a form of written language predating our modern civilization. We remember WW2 and the upwards of 70 million people who lost their lives in the war…that will never be forgotten. What we have now are is the general population of people with very little to no education of the past who think that these symbols and runes were created under Hitler and are only to be associated with a group that preached hatred and advocated genetic and ethnic cleansing. The reason that the current neo-nazi and white supremacists movements still use the symbols and rhetoric is because we let them. We acknowledge the negative meaning behind the picture so they keep using them. The ideals aren’t dead…they should be and I think killing the value of their propaganda is a good move to make. That’s a lot different then saying that I want to trivialize the acts committed by the Third Reich. We should always remember but you can’t heal if you continue to keep the wound open.
You have to remember that nobody else has ever used the same style of Swastika and Sigrunen that the Nazis did. So there’s no way to “disassociate” the symbols from what they mean. And it wouldn’t be right anyways.
SSD – you have this correct in every way. To reuse these symbols once tainted by such a monstrous force is to forget the terrible past they were born in. Those who don’t understand this, never will. It is an issue of maturity, perspective, and appreciation for those who’ve gone before us. If you want to “clean” a symbol from the atrocious history it was forged in, you are doing a terrible disservice to those who fought against them. Or you are intentionally evoking that image. The damage is done, the scars are there. The swastika will never be “just a good luck charm,” and it shouldn’t.
Anybody not understanding why should sit down and talk with a couple WWII vets. I’ve got a feeling they wouldn’t want their own trials forgotten. Maybe I don’t know enough of of them, but neither of my grandfathers would be ok with it.
Finally, I would add, how many of today’s warfighter’s would prefer that we move on from 9/11? Isn’t there a phrase that accompanies it? Oh yeah “Never forget.”
The symbols were stolen from their honored or benevolent past, and forever tainted by the crimes of the Nazis. Disassociating the symbols from the horrors perpetrated under them risks undermining the efforts to ensure future generations remember the genocide so it is never repeated. As the eyewitnesses die off, there are already too many who invent conspiracies and claim the horrors never happened. Why encourage them by encouraging an honorable use of Nazi or Waffen SS symbology?
The perversion of Nordic runes or Hindu religious symbols was just one more crime of Nazi Germany, one more price we pay for the horror of the Third Reich.
The SS symbol has been in the Scout Sniper family for as long as I can remember and I date back as far as ’86 in STA platoon. Other symbols and sayings were borrowed like Murder Incorporated etc. which we got a ration of shit about too. I understand a civilian getting upset about this but a combat arms person? No.
I wasn’t impressed when I saw its use in the past either. Meat tags were an homage to the SS as well.
It just takes one person to shit the bed and no one else can sleep in it. That’s what happened with all Nazi symbolism whether you like it or not. Don’t blame me blame Hitler.
First off everyone has an opinion but this is just a reminder to me of how embedded the Neo-Nazi’s are within our ranks and within all Services along with a host of other Gangs and groups. It is a daily fight to combat the ill effects of the lost of good order and discipline in Units. Say what you want but the Non-Judicial punishment that is taken place across the Services onto both Enlisted and Officers, be it know by the General public, they would demand the policing up of how and whom we recruit. For those that don’t know I leave you with the one guiding quote that I hold dear:
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
SGM
I am honestly upset by the nazi theft of Norse symbols like this. You all talk about them being Nazi, and sure the nazis used them – but in reality they have only been for a short span of time during the symbol’s existence. I do understand that nazi references make people angry, but in all honesty we should not allow them to steal and defile symbols or even worse – my ancestry and history.
These symbols like the Sigrune and the Swastika has no place in German history before the Nazis, and should not be associated with the Nazis or even Germany for that matter. I would like to take those symbols back from the Nazis, give me my rune! (Scout Snipers can borrow it, if they ask nicely and give me free ammunition)
Dave,
Who wouldn’t wish that the Nazi regime had not risen and caused so much death and destruction? Unfortunately, it did. I agree that it is unfortunate that these symbols have been stolen. But they have been. Many Norse runes were used by the Nazis but few are widely recognized and fewer still carry the stigma of this one. The average person has no need to use them, particularly the doppelsigrunen (which is affectation of a Norse rune developed specifically for use by the SS). Some things are best let lie. This is one of them.
SSD
If it is sooooo wrong, why is nobody bitching about the band KISS? And US Marine Scout Snipers have been using the runes (again older than the Nazi era) since at least VIETNAM. Give that shit a rest, let the Scout Snipers have their symbols, and leave them alone.
It isn’t their symbol. They adopted the symbol of Nazis.
As for KISS, once again. You hold them on the same level of Marines? Seriously? Marines represent America. For 237 years the United States Marine has been a symbol of all that is good in the world. KISS is a band, created to make money. How can you equate one to the other?
I dare say the band kiss is just as recognizable world wide as a united states marine. Everything we do is representative of America on a global scale. From our disaster relief efforts to our issues with obesity. These symbols did not carry out genocide, the men wearing them did that. Education about the history of these symbols should not stop at 1940. Symbols and runes do not make a man evil, only his actions can do that.
What you’re inferring is that symbols hold no power, and are simply there for decoration. Given this, why is it so difficult to give up the use of the runes for scout snipers?
Also, KISS used the lightning-bolt shaped S as part of their full band name – they didn’t call themselves something else and then drape black flags with just this symbol on them behind the stage did they.
Nice try, but nowhere near being in the same ballpark as this.
My Father was a Sniper Employment Officer in the Marine Corps. Gene Simmons is the son of a Holocaust survivor, and of Israeli heritage. Marine Snipers have a mystique, an aura and an almost spiritual reverence felt towards them by your average 0311, much like the average 0311 feels like the Corpsman is a Godlike figure. Scout Snipers wrap themselves in that aura and that mysticism. To them, using the runes, is a method of the Sniper taking some of the power and evil away from their previous use, and channeling it toward that poor, stupid son of a bitch that falls into their crosshairs. I for one would not like the feeling of having a LCPL with an M40, and a lot of hate, hardscoping me. I have absolutely no problem with their using that symbol. I suggest you read the series of books titled Death From Afar: US Marine Scout Snipers in Combat, by the Chandlers, a father and son who were both Marine Scout Snipers. The books delve into the training, equipment, history, and mystique that are the baddest shooters on Earth.
This has nothing to do with how great Snipers are. This has to do with inappropriate behavior. Your assertion that Marine Snipers are “taking some of the power and evil away from their previous use” might might have some slight validity if the Marine Corps had a history of fighting Nazism but it doesn’t. That was the Army’s fight and you don’t see Army units glorifying Nazism by adopting their symbology.
As for Gene Simmons. He has to look himself and his family in the eye. And, he and his band are far from official representatives of America.
The bottom line here is that its use is unacceptable. The Marine Corps made that clear earlier this year. These guys just need to get with the program.
Some guys aren’t going to get it because they don’t want to. They revere the SS BECAUSE they were so vile, cruel, efficient and hated. When they can’t get past that to understand what the SS stood for it might speak to the culture of the organization and what the priority of values is.
The Marines are badazz enough to not want to use the symbol of a bunch of murderers renowned for killing innocents and prisoners to include US soldiers at Malmedy. This is something to be greatly concerned about and those that deny it need to questioned vigorously about what they know and don’t know about the SS.
BTW, the Army’s 45th infantry division had a swastika patch as a nod to its American Indian composition. When the Nazis rose they changed it to the thunderbird patch.
http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/History/SwastikaToThunderbird.html
Pic of the Swastika patch and the Thunderbird that replaced it.
http://www.m38a1.com/images/Thunderbird_Patches.jpg
The Scout/Snipers are holding onto this icon as a badge because it’s so embedded in our culture. There’s no denying the history of the SS bolts, but it’s simply ignored. Through time and indifference, we’ve come to love our SS bolts because we are proud of ourselves. Of course, we also love being controversial just for the sake of it. The personalities that draw us to the role are also that cause us to fight the issue even though we are clearly wrong.
I agree that the symbol should never have been taken and utilized in the first place. No doubt the first ones to use it and propagate it had clearly racist intentions. These days however, it isn’t so prevalent. It will be hard to root it out of our culture regardless of education or orders.
For what it’s worth, these KISS and Norse arguments are silly and grasping at straws. It’s a weak and childish argument. You’d be better off simply stating, “Yeah the Nazi’s had it, but it’s ours now.” And give the finger for good measure.
It’s bad too. We have plenty of other quality symbols we could use. It’s simple enough to alter the SS’s with a / or different stylization, but the neo-nazi’s make it easy with their flags already in production. Nothing wrong with a stylized STA or map symbol arrows…
* “It’s too bad too.” -whoops.
Thanks Travis for an honest discussion of this issue.
Yep, totally get the whole “let’s piss everyone off, because what the christ are they going to do about it?” mentality. It reminds me of the “We stole the eagle from the air force, the anchor from the navy, and the rope from the army. On the 7th day while God rested, we overran his perimeter and stole the globe. We’ve been the whole show ever since.” It makes sense, and is a mentality that is fostered in the Marines for better or for worse, depending on who you’re talking to. This said, it’s the SS, and they not only murdered a shit ton of people, they killed American soldiers, sailors, and airmen. It’s a rightfully sore topic for the world still, and will be for many, many years.
Thanks Travis, you said it perfectly.
P.S. I usually hate making directed comments, but how stupid can someone be to put marines to the same standard as rock stars and people worshipping satan or whatever?
Besides, you are about a year out of date to have outrage over this, and Travis is right, and the Corps didn’t fight the Nazi’s but that doesn’t mean that they can’t use Norse symbiology. When it boils down to it, these are Celtic/Norse runes, that for a VERY SHORT period of time, were hijacked by the Nazis. Thats like saying the song Dixie is racist, That song was written prior to the Confederacy, and by a Yankee. Jeez, EVERYTHING is either racist, or is causes cancer. Marine Snipers have used that symbol far longer than the SS ever did, so guess who owns it now?
We aren’t discussing Dixie here, or the Stars and Bars, or KISS, or any other distraction you can come up with to make yourself feel better about a black eye. I’m not a year out of date. The USMC made its choice in the matter earlier this year so I’d say that the official position is that it’s not a Marine symbol. We’re here because some people can’t adapt. The use of the symbol brings dishonor on a very honorable profession, that of Marine.
These guys are really staining their reputation by carrying signs of a honorless paramilitary orginistation.
Everyone know they are referring to the waffen-SS.
I think it is a poor try to look tough only having effect on people who are easely intimidated.
“honorless paramilitary organization”…? The achievements of the Waffen SS are formidable, to say the least…
The achievements of the ss were formidable only if you count killing 12 million civilians as ‘formidable’. Even the wehrmacht despised the waffen ss.
Yeah…and they were REAL happy to see em when the “shit hit the fan”
drone – you gotta be joking. Let’s put a Haditha Battle Streamer on the USMC flag because there was only a little bad stuff going on. Let’s rename a BN the Lee Harvey Oswald BN because he was a GREAT SHOT. Your logic is ridiculous.
Read your history people! The Waffen SS, particularly in the east, was militarily outstanding. Perhaps the best combat arm WW2…ironically, the the only runner-up would be the Marines,Pacific theater.
Drone
I would say the First Special Service Force out performed the SS and Marines in their short time span.
What’s this about Haditha? We’re pretending we were never there because of some bad press?
Travis – there is a USMC that covers the period of action (Haditha was part of a bigger battle). We aren’t forgetting the sacrifice but the USMC isn’t relishing the fact that a lot of innocent people got killed in Haditha by having a Haditha battle streamer just to thumb its nose at someone like the SS runes deal. BTW, there’s a little more to Haditha than some bad press, read about some of the specific room clearing procedures used and you’ll scratch your head. Mistakes DO happen but the events will give you pause.
I don’t have to read about it. I was there. What was the larger battle? I don’t seem to remember that. That incident occurred during regular every day driving around.
This whole deal reminds me of the character Randall in Clerks 2 insisting that porch monkey isn’t racist.
I had forgotten about that but it fits.
Wow. Random Clerks 2 Reference.
Just to be clear, this Facebook page is not about Scout/Snipers and the great things they have done in service to their their fellow Marines, their Corps and their country but as their Facebook tagline states,
“A page dedicated to keeping the SS symbol alive and well in the Marine Scout Sniper community”.
This should be in the story. Great observation. Some will still try to defend it.
In addition, I believed the Eagle Globe and Anchor has been trademarked by the Corps. The usage on the SS page would then be unauthorized. I believe that if the Corps cannot do anything about the page itself, it can get Facebook to remove any unauthorized use of the EGA and/or any other trademarked image or depiction.
I was on active duty from 87 to 91 and had several friends in our Bn STA. It was considered a badge of honor to be branded with the SS somewhere on their bodies after earning the hogs tooth. Including in this is one shooter who was Jewish and one of their top shooters a large black Marine. It was displayed on their hooch in and out of garrison, much of their gear, and as I said, their bodies. It also was used long before our time…We saw it on several other units’ STA and Scout Sniper Teams, too.
This is not a new or sudden thing adopted by a few guys in one platoon. It’s been around for a very long time, and for those that earned it, it carries it’s own history. I think a few folks need a serious vaginal lavage…
Hahaha! Well said!
Ignorance isn’t an excuse. Might be because the SS isn’t in Marine history books that some Marines don’t get it. If there was an equivalent atrocity like Malmedy in Marine history it might penetrate how vile the SS were.
You seem to have a bit of fanboy crush on the old swastika wavers….yet a bunch of Ivan’s riding on the engine bay’s of T-34’s crushed them into the ground.
I thought Americans didn’t like loosers?
Yep….a WHOLE bunch of Ivan’s. 8-10 to one at least? Kinda like, say, Chosin reservoir …6 Chinese divisions against 1st Marine Division. Superior leadership, superior tactics and superior individual solders. Look, love em or hate em, to deny their military prowess is, we’ll, you answer that.
Great point! Why would Marines want to use Nazi symbols when they have such a distinguished and HONORABLE history? Why confuse the message?
Does the unit get matching thunderbolt tattoos?
Before my grandfather died, he said that during world war two there was no other German unit that he hated or respected more than the Waffen SS. He told me that when intel indicated they would be clashing against the SS, and not regular army, there was a noticeable change in everyone’s mood. He was an infantry Plt sergeant and killed his fair share of Nazis. Another story was about the end of the war, when they checked POWs for the SS tattoos on the left biceps. If they found it, or a new cigarette burn in the same place, they were treated a little more roughly. Last winter when all this came down, all snipers in my Plt had to read and sign a paper saying we understood the runes are now forbidden. Then the command searched our office, gear and rifles to ensure all runes were removed. All except those tattooed on a fair number of Marines in the Plt. I always knew that the symbol of hate. I just never cared. The corps has been using it forever. It’s a revered symbol by most grunts in the service. It should have never have been used, but it did. I think most guys were pissed when it was taken away from our community, after decades of use and a decade of new war. Hitler ruined that style of mustache, it’s done. Saddam Hussein had a mustache, but I still see lots of people wearing it. The point that I’m getting at is that on a long enough time line, some murderous douche will ruin everything for everyone. I don’t like that Marines piss on corpses or throw puppies to their death, or shoot wounded unarmed enemys in the back like was done during phantom fury. But these things happened. It’s an embarrassment to the service. But after what the Taliban and muj did, I can’t say that I really care that we did these things. Just dont take pictures or talk about it after. Hate has made a lot of people do a lot of stupid stuff over the history of the world. War seems to bring out the idiots. Take the runes away, the full sleeve tattoos, the ” tree line” the silkies, the unit shirts. Replace with sensitivity training. Drive the killers and seasoned NCOs out of the infantry. The whole service feels like its being castrated. Because of stuff like this, it is.
Ya know, ya had me right up until you compared taking away an SS symbol with silkies and then the bullshit flag went up. Wow.
The real issue at hand here is maturity or lack of it- when I was young I would have thought the SS symbol would have been cool and badass and all that; as you get older you realize that good people died because of bad people who used that symbol – that alone means that it is inappropriate to use it in a country where thousands have fought and died to preserve freedom around the globe
Good call on the senior leadership in the Marine Corps banning its use – get creative and replace it with something of your own that is striking in its own way but not disrespectful
Absolutely agree. Its just childishness that makes people go ooh and awh a
It is incredibly irrelevant how good at killing people the Waffen SS was. Do we as a society value killing, or justice, freedom, and life itself?
Maybe idiots like droneboy believe that, because they’re 13. But America as a nation should stand up for what is right, and our ideals do not dwell on our ability to slay foreigners. Particularly unarmed or disarmed pows and women and children, which is whom the Waffen SS really excelled at killing.
You know, this isn’t ONLY a PR/PC issue.
THIS IS A MORALE/LOYALTY ISSUE.
Substitute “SS” with any gang/militia tattoo.
Would you want a “SS” tattoed service member watching your back if you were a minority?
Would you like to go on a little camping trip alone with one?
Would you like to have one of these members somehow joining your police department?
Would you want a “merry band” full of “SS” brandishing Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines going into a command center?
Ahhh…office hours and over with it. IMHO.
Sorry but some of us have Eastern European ancestors who died under the Nazis. This symbol is moronic. I cannot find my family in Poland because they were wiped out by the Nazis, and they were Catholic. Why am I not suprised Jarheads posted that! I would expect that from some Neo-Nazi knuckledragging hillbilly!
Stefan, why bother saying that. You’re just opening your self up for anti Polish comments. You should know that the vast majority of Americans are ignorant and enjoy nothing more then to be little your ethnicity. Like Droneboy. Fuck ’em . These Marines and their elitist Additude
Stefan, why bother saying that. You’re just opening your self up for anti Polish comments. You should know that the vast majority of Americans are ignorant and enjoy nothing more then to be little your ethnicity. Like Droneboy. Fuck ’em . These Marines and their elitist attitude disgust me. I fear for the day when they re-enter normal society. I’ll have to take cover at the gas station cause one of these honorable men lost his mind cause he can’t display his symbol at the McDonald’s he flips burgers at.
Well….you can always go home!
Jesus fucking christ. Most of you need to be tarred, feathered and possibly dragged behind a firetruck. Close down the comments for SSD.
Disclaimer: In the spirit of correct attribution, the Ken who made this post is not the same Ken (me) who made the earlier posts. I should have used an additional initial or something.
And it has been updated again… Now it says “We had a cool pic of some SS Bolts here but some tree-hugging, anti-military, communist D-bad reported it. Then FB removed it.”
Apparently you guys are “tree-hugging anti-military communist douchebags” for not thinking Nazi symbology is appropriate for the Marines…
Now that the lightening bolts have been removed, does anyone have an email address for the SgtMajMarCor so that we can get the EGA removed from their page as well?
Is he on staff with FB is his spare time?
BTW You’d have to be clear if you wanted his personal or political opinion IF he admitted they were different…having been a SSP Platoon Seargent himself in the 80s.
No doubt he understands the political implications of using and approving the symbol. However, like the rest of us who identify with it for our own reasons, it’s simply not that easy to let go of. We already relegate ourselves to wearing the SS emblazoned hoodies and hats around the house despite our pride.
We know what the symbol means for the world, but that doesn’t negate the meaning we have for it ourselves. The Stars and Stripes are demonized in some regions as well. I realize that is not an equal comparison, but the point is relevant. Our community is small, so our take on it is cast out. That’s fine. Just don’t be surprised when it goes doesn’t go quietly.
Don’t be surprised when you get called out and labeled. I wish I could empathize but this is just too heinous. It’s not like skulls on unit patches or blood wings. It’s a freaking Nazi symbol. Wrong is wrong. You can’t shake that.
Can’t argue against your point. Or any other one either.
I’ve read most of these posts, did not review the links. I’ve never felt the need to post on a website before-but this one needs a little clarification.
I server in the Marine Corps. I was also a sniper. My attendance was when the school was at San Onofre, in the huts when a fire watch was still required. I also was an instructor at the West Coast school as well when it was a FAP billet and later a PCS requirement. I saw the current SGTMAJ of the Marine Corps bear crawl as the class leader. Later, I was one of the first to participate in the SOTG (later MSPF programs on both coasts). I mention this only to say I had more than a single view.
I know where the “SS” came from interior to the 8541 culture, as do many. There were the few that drove the (skin) branding and “SS”. No different than any other right of passage for a job deserved and well done.
The Marine Corps for years did what every and any other organized entity does; it elects, tolerates and allows certain behavior based on the environment and situation. The Marine Corps (read: Corp(aration) has varied in it tolerance of the sniping community ranging from a beloved entity to an unwanted sore. Just looking at the various commands the school(s) have fallen under indicates such. I believe the both the physical location and the command changed no less that 5 times in a dozen years. The proverbial “necessary evil”. The hard nosed cop in a rough town-until its not rough anymore…
It is completely understood why young Marines (average age roughly 24, with the occasional 19 year old) whom risked so much (attrition rates exceeding 65% were common), worked hours that would make a JAG shudder, and were in a class with Army SF, SEAL’s, Ranger’s and “other” entities-would righteously want to carry the flag of success and accomplishment. A program where it made no matter what your previous accomplishments were, or were not. You either made it or you didn’t. Looks, physical prowess and rank aside-you made it or you didn’t. That is a leveler, and levelers are always interesting and usually truthful. A 20-something year old shooting a rickety-shot out M40A1 that’s been in service for God knows how many years against men showing up with $6K+ rifles and other niceties along with a stack of
badges and tabs. Yes, these guys put out and they wanted something to bond to as individual accomplishment and group absolution.
These young men, they were the ones that as oddly and often uniquely did push the Corp(aration) ahead to further the sniper program. The in essence created something from very little and grew up having to justify their jobs quite regularly. Now, lets not forget a Marine often hits the occasional obstacle, even ones they themselves create.
The “SS” was a mechanism it appears to be as bonding agent, and it worked. No differently than a logo, the KISS “SS” for the young crowd and a dose of young adult ignorance. Yes, ignorance, because nobody cared or knew of this particularly culture before Twitter and Facebook in the mid 1980’s or foresaw the “obstacle”. I know several Jewish, African American and Latin snipers, a few of them have “SS” brands. That I feel makes the statements above fairly valid.
Per this post, the main question I have is “why”? Every major special unit that has gotten itself into hot water usually does something, or somethings out of, well-stupidity really. They tend to forget how special they are to have a different set of rules or entitlements and become somewhat reckless. Posting an “SS” on Facebook was beyond reckless and probably somewhat disrespectful as well. If its a unit or organizational secret-keep it that way. Or at least keep it off Facebook, the largest data mined media site on the earth.
Personally, I can do without the “SS”. I prefer the inner pride of having struggled through it all and seeing that the program is flourishing. Age does that. Maybe its because my brand has faded.