Please stop repeating the story that the US Army wasted $5 Billion on camouflage when it’s obvious from your stories that you know two things about camouflage and those are:
1. Jack
2. Shit
That is all…
Please stop repeating the story that the US Army wasted $5 Billion on camouflage when it’s obvious from your stories that you know two things about camouflage and those are:
1. Jack
2. Shit
That is all…
We talking development or development and fieding?
I bet they wasted WAY more than that on UCP lol
No Jon, not even close but maybe you should be writing for main stream media. You seem to know as much about the subject as they do. 🙂
Jon is a very good friend of mine and a bit of a smart ass. He knows a thing or two, or three.
They didn’t spend much on development. They fielded about $5 Billion in kit. It just happened to be in UCP. It wasn’t as if the Army didn’t need a facelift OCIE-wise. For that money we got better helmets, armor, FR uniforms, etc.
True, the equipment is better.
We need to list the pros of UCP though.
There aren’t any
I’m sure someone here would bravely stand up for UCP.
Right?
Well said SSD
I have never felt compelled to comment on Soldier Systems before, though I frequent the site everyday, but this is probably the single best post I’ve seen in the two years I’ve been visiting! We all know the mainstream does not get us, so…. Well done!
Wow, fat fingured that one…
And we make all the OCIE in Multicam now. Imagine the relative ease of the transition…if only
Quit being sensible, Jon. That’s not how organizations get things done. 😉
ACU is terriable, I’m glad the Army is going to something better hopefully. Give the soldier what he wants and needs.
Yeah…I see these articles and I’m going new info and then I read and ask SSD and the editor says…tightest secret since who actually killed JFK.
They don’t know yet. They are still doing their thing.
Why dont we ask those morons how often they switch out their Brooks Brothers and Armani suits so they can look nice for the camera? How about they stop worrying about real attempts by people that are trying to provide the best patterns to keep safe hundreds of thousands of the bravest men and women constantly in harms way?
When I went to Iraq I had DCU,s with woodland pattern IBA and a UCP ACH cover. The army needs to get a good multi cam uniform that can be used across a number of environments.
LOL. Where’d you see the latest example of Lame Stream Journalism?
I feel kind of semi-responsible – since it was my comments that were taken out of context and misquoted in that original piece in The Daily.
Yahoo inside business
Oh – was that the article that had the old photo of a Kryptek-clad hunter captioned as “a soldier” as their lead-in? My wife had that up on her screen at one point yesterday afternoon – asked me if I’d seen – I took one look at it – said “B.S.” – and went back to working on something more interesting…. 😉
Multicam Standard for Garrison and Standard Deployments, Multicam with some more browns and tans for desert, and Multicam with more Greens for woodland and all gear in Coyote Tan/Khaki with a Ranger Greenish Color for Molle/Pals webbing. There you go problem solved and it took me less than two minutes to type it. Your Welcome
I’ll pass that along to Crye. I’m sure they’ll be relieved that you’ve worked that all out for them.
ha!
hey im just saying that would probably be the best plan and the easist to implement.
Just busting your balls
Good idea, but Crye will have to get back to you in 6-8wks with an answer.
What is the current status of the of ACIP Phase IV? Have they started field testing yet? I have noticed that ADS has been showing off US4CES on the internet a lot lately. I haven’t seen much on Kryptek Leaf, nothing on Crye’s and I can’t even remember the name of the other company.
I’ll admit that I started frequenting this blog originally because of the camo upgrade (now I stay for everything else) but I am beginning to become a little tired of this whole mess. I think this should be a DoD issue, not just an army issue. Let’s return to a military of uniformity, standardization, and interchangeability. I say lets adopt Marpat for uniforms with Coyote brown OICE, brown shirts and boots, and tan and green molle kit. Then we can begin developing specific patterns based on Marpat for specific missions and environments. Hasn’t marpat proven it’s self throughout 10 years of constant warfare in a way that no other camo pattern has before? What other pattern has been used so consistently in warfare for so long? I vote for this so we can drop the cash while we have it and move on to developing other more important equipment. Better rifles/carbines, better body armor, better tanks….
The Army is knee deep in testing. When this is over they will know more about camo and what’s more, about the world’s environment from a camouflage perspective than ever before. I think you might be surprised about that great idea of solid OCIE with camo uniforms. Early testing in Afghanistan a few years ago indicated that that technique actually makes you stand out due to the contrast.
Another clear and tranparent testing process…. And I agree with you about the OCIE. Nothing says “Look at me!” like solid color, geometric shaped PALS straps across some really high tech, well tested, supercamo pattern.
Yup – you only have to look at a few photos to know that.
While I agree that matching camo patterned gear is better than a solid color gear I wonder if it is worth the additional cost right now. Can the budget support fielding mulitple sets of different patterned equipment for every soldier? Every source I read seems to believe the next few years military budgets are going to be ones similar to or worse than the very tight ones from the mid 1990’s. Maybe fielding a solid color of modern gear might be wiser to see the service through until budgets get better.
What did that testing in Afghanistan say about how walking, running, climbing or riding in vehicle in camoflage uniforms? I bet that makes you stand out more than a solid color plate carrier.
By your argument what’s the point of camo in the first place? Contracts stands out and contrast that happens to be the exact shape of the torso is even worse. I’d say that you’d be better off wearing all one shade than a big contrasting torso with camo limbs.
That is a good question. What is the point of camo in a military that mainly vehicle mounted? Are your matching body armor and magazine pouches going to hide the MRAP or Stryker or helicopter you arrived in?
Ok how about this then. Body armor and ruck sacks in a single solid color, but issue molle kit in both woodland and desert patterns and maybe even a reversible chest rig with a bib IOT mask that solid color as much as possible. It seems like that would be an effective, cheap and practical solution.
I don’t buy the OICE Pattern solution. Not matter how “universal” you manage to make an OICE pattern you’ll still run into the same problem of contrast with everything on you torso is a different pattern than the rest of you body..
First of all, there is no better site for what we do than Soldier Systems. Second, the question on the table is, “What are the good technical features on UCP?” (my own quote, so I say, nobody has mentioned night vision. The UCP breaks up better than woodland, desert and anything else around. Similar to MARPAT and CADPAT. Multicam is not as good… grap your nods and you’ll see..watch for big brother though.. as for a VISUAL camo, i can say that in an urban, desert terrain, i.e. Iraq OIF. UCP is not a let down. As a matter of fact, Multicam sucks in Urban and desert, ask our friends in South America and Africa.
I don’t think most can give a rats anymore on rather or not if you can see any contrast through NVGs. UCP may or may not have been so effective when it comes to hiding you (you glowed more under UCP than with M81 when washed) from an enemy towlhead with cheap old Soviet or Chinese NVGs. But next big problem was that it sucked so much during the day time, when its NOT dark outside, and you can see them from a mile away thanks to the colors that where chosen. And the colors didn’t blend worth a shit in a forest to an open desert or even in a Trans enviroment when on the move. Except maybe against the side of a grey mountain, or a gravel pit, and thats about it.
If having solid color gear is so bad, then why does Group and Ranger Batt still use Coyote Tan/Khaki gear instead of just using Multicam gear instead. Plus I’ve seen both personally and on pictures that once a decent amount of distance is given that Coyote Tan/Khaki color gear with Multicam actually creates a nice overall blend of color and you really can’t pick out the fact that they are wearing solid gear unless your really straining to see it.
How about ATACS AU supplemented with local vegetation as the situation changes? The color scheme is recessive and therefore tends to blend into the background, even at reasonably close ranges. It appears to vary from dirty green to brown-gray as the light changes, and there are no hard edges or dramatic color shifts to draw the eye, unlike multicam where you will see Greenland brown contrasted against each other.
ATACS AU would also make a sound choice for personal equipment as it breaks up the shape and hard lines of most gear better than anything else I have seen. This would overcome the problem of solid color on camo contrast and allow equipment to be moved between environments at minimal expense. My $0.02 worth
I have no dog in this fight but coming from a dude who has played in the bushes with his kit, I agree 100% with you Glenno. ATACS is some sneaky stuff and very hard to track when blended into local veggies. Be advised that I am a nobody some my opinion is strictly mine but ATACS is what I would bet my check on.
Rattle can augmentation is always a good thing too but the sheet doesnt just wash out.
How about plain coyote EVERYTHING and issue a few spray cans per squad of green and very dark gray per squad? Then, tell the NCOs and Officers to stop bitching about uniformity in the field. Keep a couple of un-sprayed sets of uniforms for garrison.