The Army did not announce their winner. Nothing follows….
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I think my heart just stopped there for a moment.
BAH !!!
Oh, SSD, you tease, you 😉
Wait but who won tho?
Die in a fire…
Hahaha. You’re wrong for that.
And by surprise decision UCP has been picked over the other 4 patterns.
We’ve invested time & money in 4 camo patterns that all work better than UCP. So, at the last minute, let’s go with the worst of the 5 patterns. So we can “save” money already spent…
seems legit
No surprise in the surprise.
What a downer. They didn’t announce the PT’s either. I’m not opposed to the services going to one set of patterns it makes loads of sense to me. We shouldn’t regress to a pattern that has already been proven inferior such as MARPAT or multicam like some people are calling for would be a mistake. Marpat is already 10 years old and Multicam has been around for a minute as well. The next pattern the services choose will stick with us for a long time and we should utilize the research already conducted by the Army to make that choice.
The PTs are still being tested, at least here at JBLM
Saw the Black shirts with Yellow writing on AFN last week. Don’t look too bad…
If JBLM means Jump Backwards at the Last Minute, then it applies to our current situation.
So, you make a post to let everyone know the winner hasn’t been announced. Which by now, we all know. Are you just looking for more hits to your website? Good update lol
I did that because, unlike you, amazingly, everyone doesn’t know that they didn’t make an announcement. This is obvious due to the multiple, “So who was it?” posts in the comment section of various articles. I didn’t do it for me, I did to update those that needed someone to tell them that there was no announcement.
Do you actually believe that I did that to drive more traffic to my site? I’ve published over 8500 articles. If I didn’t feel that I was getting enough by posting the news, I could always drive traffic to my site by posting random photos of semi clad women with guns, or I’d take a page from most of the stuff on the internet and post articles about things I don’t know anything about. Or, better yet, I’d churn up those age old questions of “9mm or .45?” or even better, “M16 vs AK47.” Those always drive traffic.
And in that rebuke you probably just generated a hundred new hits. Skillfully done!
Umm, I wouldn’t mind seeing the semi clad women with semi autos.
I didn’t know, and I appreciate that SSD brought me the news. I wish SSD would have reported the news earlier, though. (I find the comments of ‘anyway’ and ‘kp’ naive beyond reason.)
That said, what a huge disappointment! The Army did the most extensive, elaborate and very likely also the best ever camouflage testing/selection study ever, and now it seems that they won’t be using the results! What a waste of money, effort and – worse still – blood.
Thanks for the update, SSD! I was honestly wondering whether an announcement was made or not.
Just a thought;
Build a bunch of ACU in the 4 finalist patterns. Give them to the Rangers, Sniper schools, and SOCOM/JSOC in general for testing.
“Test these. In six months, tell us which one(s) you like, and what needs improvement”
Let the combat arms units test the uiniform. They’ll tell you what really works.
Leave the testing to Pentagon Politicians and Garrison Generals, we’ll have more camo patterns with cute little service emblems in them (USMC), Drown-o-Flage (Navy), or Bagram Concrete Pattern (Army UCP).
Malium, are you suggesting that combat arms should test the uniforms? You need to understand, combat arms will actually use these and they may save their life. I suggest a General who sits in an office counting his $12,000 a month paycheck should make this decision. He knows more than those stupid shooters.
They did test the uniforms.
Who? Small select group of testers, or relatively larger units like Rangers or such?
My thought was more along the lines of “let the general Army combat arms population do a final test on the four camo patterns, then go with what that final consensus is”.
It would be relatively cheap, give the combat arms a sense of buy-in on the process, and give the Pentagon brass a strong position to present Congress of “we let the experts science it out then we gave it to the troops to decide, this is what the ‘boots on the ground’ determined they needed”.
The money has already been spent on the science and testing phases. Let the troops do their own out-of-pocket optional testing. No real cost to the Pentagon, other than what has already been spent. And you’ll know if it works in the field, or if you have another UCP fiasco *before* it becomes mandatory issue. That would save a great deal of “egg on the face”.
I’m wishing in public here, I know. I’ve had everything from ‘chocolate chip’ desert BDUs to Multicam ACUs over the last 20 years. UCP is the worst of the patterns. Even including ‘orange sherbert’ desert BDU pattern
Why? So Natick can do the same thing they did with the Plate Carrier competition, throw away the data from what the soldiers wanted and pick the POS-1 from KDH, thanks to maggot food Murtha?
They are going to go with Army-logic, pick something totally different from Multicam so all the Joes and Janes will have to go back out spending hundreds of dollars to rebuy all the shit they needed to do their missions because the issue gear was lacking.
You know it!
Or we could use the science to decide the uniform rather than run a popularity contest to determine the winner like you suggest….
Don’t believe me that it wouldn’t turn to that, go take a look at the comments for the recent poll that SSD did.
Unlike SSD, the Army conducted a very thorough investigation of the patterns.
Precisely what I almost didnt know!
This makes me sad… 🙁 Was looking forward to not having to wear UCP anymore…
The excuse I keep hearing is budget constraints – MONEY- and as I pointed out before…authorize us to PURCHASE AND WEAR the new uniform. We will pay out of pocket with our clothing allowance. We can phase the PPE in over the next few years. Wow, that was simple.
I post common sense hoping someone with enough rank that isn’t stupid accidently reads it.
“Here’s the winning camo pattern. It is authorized for optional wear, like your Danner boots. Official mandatory wear date and uniform issue will be announced when we have the budget for it. Don’t burn your ACUs yet, you’ll need them for the next Bn/Bde change of command ceremony.”
It would be interesting to know if the army considering testing with any other 5.56 variations. i.e. the MK318 SOST rounds or the MK262 77gr rounds.
I bet if they did as opposed to just the M855, there might be better results.
Additionally, the requirements were set absurdly high from the start. You need to bear in mind that if no suitable IC winner is found, the plan is move forward with piston upgrade kits. With consistent statements from politicos and military saying that direct impingement is fine for the job, buying a new rifle with the only major difference being a piston drive would look like egg on the face. Some may want this program to fail.
Maybe just as important as the gun is the optics; I think you missed your target. 😉
(hint: check title of article)
I think you’re on to something. You take a soldier that shoots 20 with iron sights give them a red dot and they shoot a 30. Try to get that increase in lethality with a scar over m4.
Er, I like both of you two’s points, but,
what I was really trying to say was that the article(?) was about the lack of results from the Army’s camo program, not its carbine program. (though they lack results because of similar circumstances, and both interesting subjects that deserve discussion)
And by gun I meant the comment by the poster, and by optics I meant his glasses. 😉
I know I was just playing along…
Extremely disappointed. I have been following this for almost two years now and I was so excited to finally hear who won. Oh we’ll….
Something I have been wondering recently, especially in light of Guy’s articles.
What exactly is effective in terms of camo. And exactly how effective does camo need to be for the average soldier.
I know I’m not the first to raise this question. But I think in light of the no announcement this week it’s a discussion that needs to begin again. What exactly is good enough.
I know SSD still cannot divulge what he knows but can someone else point me in the direction of the winner leaked? I was willing to put up waiting 4 months, but since it may never get “announced” now I do not feel bad “cheating” and learning the results even if big Army gets the wind taken out of their sails.
I think it’ll get announced eventually . . . probably after I leave the Army in eight or ten years.
But yeah, if someone can point me to a leak, please do . . . .
Second. Anyone hear anything?
(blinks) HAHAHAHAHAH THANK YOU FOR THAT!
More of the same from our leadership at the top. The term “indecision is a decision” most definitely applies here. We’re too risk averse in the building these days so we can’t make decisions on ANY of our acquisition programs. I’m surprised they were bold enough to actually announce killing the carbine competition, but still no word on Ground Combat Vehicle, Armed Aerial Scout, etc. Expect this pattern o continue well into next fiscal year.
SSD,
I think it’s time for a “Army Camo Improvement: What’s Next” story on your site. I’d appreciate any information, or, barring that, your best guess for what’s going to happen next and when it might happen.
Mick.
You’re just taunting me aren’t you?
ya ssd DO IT !!!
So SSD, can you now tell us who was rumored to be the winner, before the army renigged on us. Who they would have chosen if they weren’t worried about congress and the fiscal situation. I’d like to know we’ll be getting rid of this crap UCP sometime in the future.
No, until the Army notifies the competitors, they are still considered in source selection and any public disclosure could jeopardize the program.
Looks as if the program has already been jeopardized…. Apparently changing the Army song and buying cakes for all the fat old farts at the pentagon is more important.
Wouldn’t it be a kick in the shorts to the other services if Congress decided to make the other service branches go with whatever pattern the Army had done all this R&D on?
Extremely doubtful, but stranger things have happened.
Army “leaders” utterly failed their soldiers by fielding UCP, in the first place. They ALMOST made it right by looking for a better option. Then they failed us again by choosing not immediately field the better camo. THIS WOULD SAVE MILLIONS.
As a Senior NCO, I have been forsaken numerous times by cowardly, uninformed decisions. Decisions made only to avoid media attention. I say, “Who cares what the media reports. The negative media hype is inevitable, so get it over with. Bite the bullet, and field the new camo!”
Because, the last time I read *101-5, political approval was not part of the Military Decision Making Process.
*Also known as 5-0.
I don’t know what you guys are talking about, according to a National Guard soldier that I talked to this weekend, they already picked the new camo and it is called ‘Chocolate Chip’. Her friend who is deploying already has it issued to him.
I wish I was kidding.
Disclaimer: I only wish I was kidding about the conversation, it really happened. I know the new camo has not been selected and that it isn’t Desert Storm era chocolate chip…
I think the old National Guard soldier was giving you a serving of extra dry sarcasm.
The Desert BDU patterns ‘chocolate chip’ and ‘orange sherbert’ were almost as much of a joke as UCP is now. Which was probably the point of his joke. Combined with the night desert camo pattern, which *could* be called ‘waffle cone’, we had a regular Pentagon Ice Cream Shop of “31 flavors of stupidity”.
Chocolate Chip we pawned off on the Saudis, IIRC.
Orange Sherbert went from tan to bright orange after one washing and/or 48 hours in the desert sun.
Oh, and let’s not forget ‘Pink Elephant’ – the tan paint for the vehicles that, if “mixed improperly”, colored the battle tanks and cargo trucks a Very Pretty Pink.
So.. yeah.. if an old ‘guard soldier is joking about ‘chocolate chip’ BDU as the “new” ACU, he’s kidding. He’s just seen this circus before.
Unfortunately no, it wasn’t a joke as I tried to get more info about the pattern she was calling ‘chocolate chip’ and explained the delays with the announcement, but was met with nothing but confused looks.
actually pink works pretty well in the desert
Who wants to bet that they’ll wait until October to announce it, for the new fiscal year?
Don’t worry the Chinese already know who won and are producing it for their army.
“The biggest mistake is to never make a decision!” – George S. Patton
But what did he know?
Sometimes people decide to not decide, so that they will not make a bad decision, which is a bad decision.