In this photo taken in 1925 of CMC, then Maj Gen John LeJeune, he presents a group of Boy Scouts with awards. That sure is an interesting hat the legendary General LeJeune is wearing.
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Definitely don’t get it.
Get what?
I think he doesn’t “get” the hat comment.
Thank you for the occasional Boy Scout post. They are enjoyed!
I’m sure it’s a trick of the light, but, it looks like there is a sailor standing in the rank: Second from the end on the right.
I’ll jump in!
I love SSD but I’m willing to fight about this.
If you think Gen Lejeune is wearing a “Dan Daly” cap you’re out of your mind!
Fights on!
He is wearing it. Read your history.
OK, I’ll bite. I can’t tell with certainty if the headgear in the picture is the “Dan Daly”, but surely you would agree that the Daly style headgear was proudly worn by male US Marines for many, many years – and long before the current service cap became standard. So, my question is: how did the Daly hat recently become considered too “girly” and “non-traditional”? Could it be that too many people have a very short memory and little appreciation for history?
He became “girly” because the masses were manipulated by the media.
Agreed! But clearly people who know something about actual history are less susceptible to manipulation. If you allow yourself to be easily manipulated by anyone because of your own willful ignorance…then that’s on you. Knowledge really is power.
Knowledge really is power? That’s a ridculous statement in this debate. In what way would the “knowledge” that both a dark blue and green “Dan Daly” cover was worn in the past effect the opinion of current Marines for changing Dress white cover? No one was “manipulated” by the media in this debate. Ideas of acceptable fashion change even in military uniforms over time.
Are you eally attempting to argue accepted ideas of men’s fashion doesn’t changed? If so I can wait for the Army to adopt the black wool M1833 Dress Shako for it’s new retro service blue uniform.
This has nothing to do with media “manipulation” and everything to do with SSD’s problem with the Marines. It’s just that simple.
I have no problem with the Marine Corps or their uniforms. I do however have problems with a media that proclaims that the Commander in Chief directed the Marine Corps to adopt a female hat. That story was total bullshit but was eaten up by the public. The Marine Corps didn’t like being used as a political pawn either and very quickly issued a press release that corrected the bad info.
Mike,
My comment about “knowledge” was in response to SSD’s comment about media manipulation. Not about the relative merits of one piece of service headgear over another. As mentioned in SSD’s follow up above, the recent ridiculous hoopla over the Dan Daly hat went well beyond a reasonable question of style or tradition or serving Marines’ preferences or even the necessity for change. And it was all because of how some media chose to slant the story in the first place. That was the burr under my saddle.
Mine too
Maybe the “Dan Daly” style cover became “girly” because accepted styles and tastes have changed over the last 90 or so years since it was last a general issue item.
I’ll just just chalk this up to your normal anti-Marine bais until the day your demand the Army get rid of the berets and go back to white powdered wigs and tricorne hats of that service’s early years.
You are a classic example of the adage, “just because you can say something doesn’t mean you should.”
I’ve never come out one way or the other in favor or against the adoption of new headgear for the USMC. I just find it hilarious that a service that touts its history and tradition would be so up in arms over the proposal to reintroduce an item that was issued 80 years ago.
@SSD. Love you but I have to disagree here. The outrage was not contrived by the media. The outrage came from Marines who don’t like seeing their very beautiful uniform which is the envy of the services jacked with in an obvious attempt to make a unisex hat.
The story published was incorrect but it was not concocted in some evil control room where the Anti-Obama crowd hangs out on Friday nights. Whether the office of the President was involved is immaterial to the central point. The point being there are deliberate attempts within the military establishment to emasculate the men and de-feminize the women so we are all look like androgynous Amazons.
The hat is considered “girly” because it more closely resembles the “box hat” worn by females in the military services in-lieu of the regular service cap. The selection of the Dan Daily cover is clearly an attempt to bridge the gap between the two to create a unisex cap. Symbols mean things. The message sent was all to clear. It was the message that offended everyone far more than the hat itself.
Actually, yeah it was concocted by people with political agendas, just like the “President Obama Forces SEALs to Remove DTOM Flags” story. Based loosely in fact, but propaganda through and through.
Marines might have had their reasons for not wanting to change, but the comments I saw from those affiliated with the Marine Corps were rarely based on fact, with few even knowing who Dan Dailey was, let alone what the hat they’ve attributed to him looked like.
Of course, the best propaganda fools people into believing it’s true and as you couldn’t identify it for what it was, I’d say that the authors did very well indeed.
You misunderstood me. I said the outrage was not created by the media. I did not mean to propose that those with political agendas did not attempt to capitalize on the outrage that existed. Their attempts to do so were quickly debunked however by people like yourself, which is to be commended.
But after we have put the finger pointers to bed without their supper we are still left with the original issue.
The Marine Corps was looking to create a unisex hat in what appears to be a cow tow to the politically correct ideology. This is idiotic and was the real cause of most of the uproar. The Marines who were upset by this likely could care less if it was President Obama or Jesse “The Body” Ventura that caused it. They just want to keep that sexy uniform looking the way they like it.
Marines defending the image and pride of their service should not be ridiculed for calling that hat girly. As I said before, that sentiment was derived from the comparison to the “box hat” currently worn by females. It is not invalid to be angered by this.
Your original post, and those subsequent to it, smack of a great deal of disdain for those who object to that hat on perfectly reasonable grounds. Do not try to invalidate their argument by tying it inseparably to a political agenda.
By using your logic It would be invalid for Army soldiers to object to wearing the tri-corner hat and powdered wigs because it was worn by some serious badasses back in the day.
So what are you getting at? I don’t think anyone is saying John Lejeune is “girly,” nor do I think that anyone was necessarily “manipulated by the media.” If anything, as far as I’m concerned, the masses and the media can take their opinion and shove it up their collective asses.
I DO think the Dan Daly cover looks like shit in comparison to our current barracks cover, and I DO think to make the transition to it would be a tremendous waste of taxpayer funds, resources, time, and effort on something that doesn’t make a shit of difference in terms of the Marine Corps’ warfighting capability, which contrary to increasingly popular belief, is actually what the Marine Corps is for.
While the cover in the photo may be a Dan Daly style hat, it doesnt even remotely appear to be similar to the female version of the USMC cap. The female version is more similar to what firemen wear in the lower ranks where the higher ranking fire fighters wear something very similar to what we see in the picture.
I personally dig the campaign hats on the Scouts. They look ready for the Punitive Expedition.
Gentlemen,
It is a cover, not a hat nor is it a cap.
That is all.
I’ve always felt that most hats look pretty goofy if you look at them objectively. I was just glad our service caps didn’t look as over the top as the gaudy Soviet ones. Plus, I always thought female headgear, when different from that of menfolk, looked stupid and out of place, so I think it’s a good thing they’re going for conformity between genders. Uniforms are supposed to be uniform.
Too bad there’s not an old-time Internet to see what folks said when they went from the “Dan Daly” to the current service cap… “OMG, these new hats make it look like your mom sat on my proper Dan Daly hat!”
Gen. Lejuene’s cover in the pics isn’t a classic Dan Daly style cover, while it has less of a brim compared to the current barracks covers it still has more of a brim than the Dan Daly cover. While I don’t like the Dan Daly cover I don’t think that the Lejuene style cover is all that bad and the Commandant should have considered that cover design when he was putting his feelers out regarding a new cover design.
Actually SSD you are completely wrong.
Here is a link to a photo of Smedley Butler and Lejuene
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=4619
Really?
I really love posts about Marine uniform changes. They are almost as much fun comment wise as the posts about cammo.
Could you do a post about women in combat or don’t ask don’t tell getting repealed? Those are comedy gold as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for the chuckle SSD. Keep up the good work!
I’m glad the Marine Corps leadership has backed off on this one. This would have been the worst decision since GEN Shinseki’s participation trophy beret. It seems SMA Chandler is slowly trying to roll that one back but it will take forever as the Army is slow as molasses about everything.
In my opinion we should just go to the service cap as standard dress uniform headgear and make the ceremonial belt used by the Old Guard standard across the force. That is just me though. I know there are some questionable waistlines out there that would hate to have that happen.
I think the “Dan Daly” cover or whatever you want to call that attempt to make a unisex hat wasn’t necessarily objected to because it was girly or “less than masculine”. I think it too closely resembled the French Kepi and that was the major problem. Just an idea.
Have you ever actually seen a French Kepi?
As far as Lejuene and his hat. I have seen some photos where he is wearing the “Dan Daly” cover and some where he’s wearing one that more closely resembles the modern cover. Personally I think the picture looks more like a modern cover but that’s me.
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