I received this from a long-time SSD reader who is just as frustrated with this situation as I am.
Over time I have become more and more disturbed by the rise of virtually de rigueur anti-police and anti-government rhetoric in the comments section on this site and others. I have also come to recognize that a lack of civility and an every growing appetite for “Conspiracy Theater” seem to be the hallmark of the internet and our times. And exhibiting simple common courtesy is now often perceived as a sign of weakness. I may have no choice but to live with all of that; but I don’t have to suffer it in silence. I realize that the following commentary will likely offend a few and perhaps enflame some others who may be emotionally vested in some contrary positions. Admittedly I don’t expect to change many minds with my words. But I am also confident that a lot more of the people that visit this site will be more in agreement with me, at least in principle, rather than with the wide eyed conspiracy buffs.
Like most here I am a strong supporter of free speech. I’m something of a zealot for the entire Constitution. So I am fully aware that every American is perfectly free to say almost anything, anywhere and at any time. That is a fact I would never attempt to dispute. But I also cannot help but be disgusted when I see examples of commenters choosing, all too nonchalantly, to compare American Government entities with infamous state sponsored terror organizations like the Gestapo. Just as I would be revolted if a poster earnestly tried to equate the US Military to the NAZI SS. They are both equally unfounded and distasteful comparisons. Unfortunately, the tempo of a website comment section is more suited to a rhetorical “slap fight” than it is too a reasoned discussion. Honestly, as a hunt and peck typist, quite often by the time I can craft an appropriate response to an outrageous remark the conversation has moved on. So I took my time and wrote this.
While in the Military I lived and worked closely with countless people in the Intelligence Community, Law Enforcement and the Interagency at every level. Almost without exception they have been hard working dedicated professionals and Americans in the best sense of the word…period. I know that is the case because I have seen it and personally experienced it over decades, not read it on some website or in a book or because anyone else says that is what I should think. The people I know in those organizations don’t deserve the indiscriminate vitriol of anonymous internet commandos of any persuasion. And trying to compare bonafide patriots to fascists is simply reprehensible. Moreover, I’m not even convinced that the self-professed conspiracy fanboys believe the hyperbole of their own bombast. I think they just enjoy the shock value of the words. Seriously, if you truly though any US Government Agency was literally akin to the real Gestapo would you bad mouth it on an open forum?
That said I also know that individual abuses of power are real and happen all too often. And that the government is perpetually in need of strict adult supervision from the citizenry. I have been around long enough to witness some fairly egregious public scandals and monumental misjudgments by the powerful first hand. And like everyone else, I know of many more. But those sad facts of life serve only to confirm one eternal truth. That those we elect and appoint to positions of power are human and will always be fallible, corruptible and imperfect. But what it doesn’t “prove” is that the entire government is somehow colluding in a vast conspiracy to take away our firearms or our other rights. The more important issue – to me anyway – is that there always has been and always will be real threats to civil liberties. Losing sight of that fact in order to chase shadowy “conspirators” down rabbit holes is the definition of Red Herring. It is a waste of time and does a grave disservice to the cause of Liberty.
I have always been a strong supporter of the 2ndAmendment as well. I know there are indeed some people who are absolutely intent on banning firearms or even ultimately repealing the 2A. And that very vocal and visible minority has publically identified themselves and their intentions. No secret about that. No hidden agenda. No conspiracy necessary. But here is the really hard part for some people to understand or accept. Like it or not, “those people” have the right to their opinions and the privilege as Americans to work within the legislative process to further their stated goals. The exact same rights that those of us who passionately oppose them enjoy. So as an unapologetic believer in the tenets of the Constitution, and in order to guarantee the continuation of my own freedom I am obliged to accept all of those points. I have too and I do.
Nevertheless, in the context of their stated intentions, I do see them as a direct menace to arguably the key civil liberty that sustains all the rest. The 2nd Amendment. But they are not the kind of imminent peril that might compel me to retreat to my redoubt and await Armageddon. Rather they represent the kind of danger that demands that I make my voice heard, join like-minded organizations like the NRA and fight them appropriately where the struggle is actually being waged. In the local City Councils, State Legislatures, Congress and the Courts across this country. That is how victory will eventually be achieved. And I don’t need to link this very tangible threat to some amorphous conspiracy in order to motivate myself to fight for my beliefs.
Furthermore, while I am concerned, I for one am not afraid of the anti-gun people. Their augments for additional restrictions and bans inevitably rest on the shifting sands of (mis)perception or emotion and not the firm foundation of reality and facts. One clear and simple example is that while the number of civilian owned firearms of all types in America is exponentially greater than it was 30-40 years ago, violent crimes are at historic or near historic lows in every measured category. So it is impossible to justify a claim that “more guns equal more crime” or even results in more deaths. Or claim that the availability of certain kinds of modern firearms or types of magazines has somehow increased public risk. Conversely, while there are admittedly some other factors at play, it is obviously more rational and verifiable to say that more guns in the hands of responsible citizens has positively contributed to the reduction in crime.
It is facts like that which provide the real “ammunition” essential to winning this endless cycle of 2A arguments. Let our opponents shoot the unsupportable emotional “blanks” instead of us. It would be a major mistake to fall into the trap of arguing the relative merits of our “feelings” versus their “feelings” on the subject. Making a tactical blunder or unforced error like that could actually make it much harder to successfully present, defend and win the case with the American people and our elected representatives. Unfortunately, all too frequently individual sensitivities and preconceived bias substitutes for rational discourse with some very vocal people on both fringes of the argument. Those people also have a right to be heard but not to hijack or dominate the discussion.
Moreover, I for one remain convinced that most Americans, when presented with fact based arguments, will choose reason over “feelings” and freedom over fear. I reject the emotionally charged but baseless premise perpetuated relentlessly by far too many people of all political persuasions that the bulk of the American People are “sheeple”. Or any other derogatory term someone may want to use to insult or vilify our fellow citizens. If the average American citizen was as easily deceived or led-by-the-nose by those in power as that term would suggest then any outstanding 2A questions would have been settled with little fanfare long ago.
I would submit that the truth is a great many Americans simply don’t pay attention to any issue until it reaches enough of a “crisis level” to intrude on their personal lives. I was like that myself as a younger man even after I joined the Army. I felt pride in serving my country in uniform and I dare say I was a pretty fair soldier most of the time. But drinking to excess and chasing ladies or the not so lady-like took up all my free time, money, energy and focus. The truth is I wasn’t nearly as good a citizen as I should have been or thought I was. I didn’t watch any news, didn’t know anything about political issues and didn’t vote until I was married and in my late 20s. But if someone had told me at the time I had the wrong attitude and was shirking many of my civic duties there would have been a serious fight. Eventually I grew up a little and I know better now.
Most Americans have always been more like that then not. We all know that only a portion of the population actively supported the Revolution in the first place. Another significant minority supported the status quo and the Crown. A great many didn’t give a damn about politics one way or another. They simply tried to get on with their lives and stay out of the way of the fighting. So we were sharply divided then and we remain no less polarized today. Clearly, having wildly divergent views on any and all subjects is neither “Un-American” nor “Un-Patriotic” but is actually as American as it gets. The citizens of our Nation are preoccupied certainly, disinterested perhaps, self-centered maybe but still fundamentally well grounded and good people. Understanding that, the challenge is to effectively engage, inform and energize enough of the uncommitted to join the 2A fight on our side. Knowing the other side is constantly trying to do the same. But the task is made much harder if our side is seen as contemptuous or dismissive of those not already actively advocating in favor of our position.
The Founding Fathers, imperfect men all, started something extraordinary some 239 years ago. They voiced their aspirations for our Republic and the central role of the citizen in the Declaration of Independence. Then they wrote the Constitution to enable their dream to become a functional reality. They crafted an innovative power sharing arrangement of checks and balances that distributed the responsibilities of governance between the three Branches of the Federal Government, the individual States and the citizens. They wisely included mechanisms to preclude dominance and tyranny by either the majority or by any minority while guaranteeing the maximum amount of freedom for all. And the Founders gave us the tools we need within the Constitution to make ourselves heard, institute any changes that we collectively see fit and fix whatever the citizenry decides needs to be fixed. To that end, every citizen has a duty to read the Constitution and re-read it from time to time. And that means the whole document not just the Bill of Rights. It is all still relevant and understanding it matters.
Because, like a military unit leader, citizens are ultimately responsible for everything this Republic does of fails to do in our names. We are the final authority. So most assuredly, aggressive monitoring and probing and questioning and critiquing and criticizing the activities of any agency of the government is the right of every citizen. Indeed it is a sacred duty. A healthy dose of skepticism, even reasoned cynicism and eternal vigilance is fair and warranted. But citizenship demands that the individual do more than just energetically hold the government to task. The citizen is expected to fully participate in the hard work of governance and hold themselves accountable as well. If all someone has done for this country is sit on the sidelines and criticize, maybe it is past time to consider doing more? Perhaps determine to contribute something constructive? Or step up and shoulder “your share of the burden and then some” to paraphrase the Ranger Creed?
Our Founders initiated the most unique and audacious experiment in freedom the world had ever seen. Where the benefits and the burdens of securing liberty would be borne by the citizens themselves. Some people would have us believe that the experiment has already failed or that it is doomed to failure because individual men can often be irredeemably flawed. The Founders did not bequeath us a “perfect union” and they knew it. Instead they have given each new generation in turn the opportunity to continue the work towards a “more perfect union”. They didn’t guarantee us perpetual liberty without effort or freedom without sacrifice. Those things are for us to secure for ourselves or risk losing through inaction. And that is the same legacy I for one pledge to pass down to future generations of Americans.
Then there are those people who choose not to talk in stark terms of failure but rather of decline. This group of naysayers would have you believe that this country was nearly perfect at its inception but has been decaying rather than advancing almost since the beginning. They speak of somehow propelling the Nation backwards to the “unspoiled” time of the Founders. Frankly, that notion reminds me of the rhetoric of ISIL fanatics that want to drive the entire world back to their version of utopia circa 700 AD. I say no. Our best years are not behind us. I deeply admire the Founders. They were brilliant men and they achieved true greatness and changed history for the better and for all time. But even the Founders recognized that they hadn’t gotten everything right. They didn’t view the Constitution as immutable but rather as a living document. A road map to a brighter future not a destination in itself. Their writings of the day speak eloquently to the significant unfinished business of Liberty that was also part of their legacy to us. They entrusted that ongoing and never ending work to those that followed them. Right now it happens to be our turn.
Far too many people today seem to revel in cataloging and regurgitating the already acknowledged shortcomings of our Nation. I have observed this trend becoming more and more fashionable during my lifetime. I surmise that it has gained in popularity because all the “cool kids” like Michael Moore love doing it. Gleefully capturing and hoarding: every instance of human pettiness, every official fiasco, individual greediness, professional corruption, personal scandals and public crimes. These distrustful archivists do their work diligently and with gusto. Tirelessly fixated on proving the existence of intertwined conspiracy trees while conveniently ignoring an immense forest of non-conspiratorial facts that do not fit their constipated world view. So they assiduously obsess over their coveted list of offenses to their sensibilities and share their “findings” at every opportunity. And then, with a certain smug satisfaction, those perpetually pessimistic souls solemnly declare our Nation or at least our Government to be evil and hopeless and unsalvageable.
Thankfully, we don’t have to rely on anyone’s self-licking ice cream cone of wrongdoings to independently come to a more complete and accurate and very different conclusion. History gives us a vast amount of contrary evidence to counter their cynical narrative and make a more informed judgment for ourselves. There is no real contest. Our Nation’s long and storied history of positive accomplishments and admirable attributes dwarfs and far outweighs any negatives real or imagined. The whole truth is that for every ignoble failure there are countless examples of shining success. For every injustice, there are innumerable examples of justice served. And most telling of all, for every time that one person or a group of people have miscarried the public trust someone else has immediately stepped forward to shoulder the burden. That is the much more honest full measure of this Great Nation.
I’m convinced, and history seems to bear me out, that our Nation today remains as strong and resilient and gloriously imperfect as it has ever been. We continue to struggle with internal frictions and external challenges that are formidable and daunting. But no more numerous or onerous or perilous than those our Nation has faced and overcome in the past. I think of it this way, if my Uncle could be resolute when he faced the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific, then I can certainly stand my watch and wrestle with newer threats like the Taliban or Al Qaeda. I will close with this one last splendid fact. No single Nation in all of history has done more for humanity and the cause of Liberty than the United States. And that was just in the first 239 years. If we can resist the temptation to attack each other’s character or fashion hats from tinfoil every time we are unsatisfied or frustrated by our government, just imagine what we can accomplish in the next 200 years.
Obviously some of what I have said above is entirely factual especially as it relates to the Constitution and can be authenticated by anyone that cares to take the time to do the research. Where I have stated my opinions they are based and shaped entirely by my direct observations and life experiences. Consequently they are also obviously less objectively verifiable and are therefore presented only for what they are worth. Readers are of course free to believe whatever they want to believe and can reject or accept any or all of this commentary. I fully support your right to do so. I also vow not to take any cheap shots at your patriotism, your pedigree, your sincerity or your intelligence no matter how much I disagree (or agree) with whatever you may say in response. Acknowledging up front that I am an imperfect man and may, under duress, let my emotions over ride my better intentions. I will also remain equally committed to defending good people who I judge are being unfairly maligned and aren’t necessarily in a position to defend themselves. I will now retreat to my redoubt and await Armageddon.
De Opresso Liber.
-LTC Terry Baldwin, US Army (RET) served on active duty from 1975-2011 in various Infantry and Special Forces assignments.
Tags: Terry Baldwin
Nice work.
This post should be required reading. Easily the best, most rational, reasoned posting I have ever read on any web site ever. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
The good Col. puts “pen to paper” rather well.
I agree with the majority of what is written here- certainly that the sort of collusion required for widespread (or any) conspiracy is unavailable to our government.
I do however, think that the regulatory culture in our country has evolved into something without respect for the adult supervision mentioned above. I don’t make this observation in an internet induced vacuum. I have been a part of the sharp end of this conversation for the majority of my adult life.
The apathy that prevented the writer from voting until his late 20’s has done considerable damage to the republic as designed and inherited.
I suggest (as does the writer) that we use our first freedom to voice real concern for real problems. The most pressing of which is (in my humble opinion) the absence of a strong, interested and engaged citizenry.
Thanks for the tone and again- very well written.
John,
In my case it wasn’t so much apathy as ignorance. I had been taught about the Constitution but I didn’t really understand my responsibilities as a citizen until some time had passed.
That isn’t an indictment of young people. Most of us just have to mature and get some life experiences (context) under our belts before grand concepts like patriotism and citizenship make sense to us.
TLB
Agreed friend.
After re-reading my response I noticed what you may have taken for my pointing a finger. I assure you that I wasn’t. My 20’s were probably very similar (simple, fast and unconcerned ) to yours. I certainly suffered the same lapse in civic responsibilities.
Thanks again for the writing.
“Almost without exception they have been hard working dedicated professionals and Americans in the best sense of the word…period”. Thanks for writing that. That fact gets lost when the Al Sharpton’s and Eric Holder’s get to spew all their anti-cop sentiment all over the press.
From an LEO and patriot.
Yes, thank you. I’ve been a cop for 19 years. I agree with what you so eloquently drafted.
thanks
I’ve found it interesting that the same people who say that government sucks, is incompetent, and can’t do anything right are the same people who frequently say that “the Government” or some sub-set thereof is so smart, so all knowing, and so competent that is can pull off massive conspiracies involving hundreds of people, microsecond coordination, and superhuman attention to detail.
All without leaving any evidence or having the Edward Snowdens of the world spill the beans
Yeah, what you said. These people have obviously never been through the speccing, bidding, contracting process for building a concentration camp. Just getting the barbed wire would be a six month process, and then some bidder would file a protest and we’d have to start all over again. That’s assuming that the barbed wire committee didn’t require a barbed wire competition, and the development of a totally new barbed wire pattern, versus COTS barbed wire. Then the barbed wire for some camps located in humid environments would need a special finish that could withstand a 100 hour salt spray……
I honestly don’t know why you’re disturbed by the anti-police comments. When it has been shown time and time again that cops can and will get away with murder of non-violent people.
Because of statements like yours that are devoid of context, facts or evidence. That’s why I might be, I can’t speak for the author.
Murder may be too strong of a word, but it seems that many PDs and DAs have a disturbing tendency of tolerating all sorts of bullshit behavior. The dorner pickup clusterfuck, that case in Texas where the corrections officer negligently shot a handcuffed inmate because of poor trigger discipline, shooting of pets, no knock raids on wrong addresses, using SWAT for low-level offenses, and of course the judge-sanctioned anal probe/rape case (apparently some people think that a “butt clench” is probable cause to involuntarily probe and enema someone multiple times).
Again, none of your examples are placed in context, nor do you offer any evidence of the scope, breadth and statistical significance of police error or misconduct.
An NYPD officer was indicted last week for an improper shooting, 2 New Mexico officers are facing charges for homicide.
Also see Heien v North Carolina for the latest SCOTUS ruling on police error:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-604_ec8f.pdf
lolwut? You can’t understand why the examples I listed are bad? Let me explain it then. In Many of these instances not only did the officers in question receive virtually no punishment, their departments/agencies, unions, and even DA offices vigorously defended their actions as well.
People distrust the police not necessarily because they fuck up, but because in many, many, cases they aren’t held accountable for it. It’s rare for an LEO to be fired or even suspended without pay, rarer still for them to be charged with anything, and almost unheard of for them to be convicted.
And Heien vs. NC is yet another example. Why is “ignorance of the law is no excuse” applicable to civilians, but not to the people who’s JOB it is to know the law?
But make an anti military comment of the same sort of actions, typically quite worse and every freaks the hell out. the statistics of law enforcement wrong doing are some of the lowest for any professional field. The only reason it is a bandwagon is because they are so highly publicized. Teachers, clergy, medical staff constantly being accused and indicted of sex crimes is whipped over by some you tube video of an officer getting heated with a subject, but its only the 15 second clip and not the 12 minutes before hand of threatening behavior and language towards the officer who was called by the same people filming. The amount of rape and murder and cover ups occurring by the military is never talked about, why? are there bad cops, yes. are the cops who made bad decisions in split second moments not amounting to criminal behavior, yes. are there bad military member, yes, are there bad teachers, yes. are there bad politicians, yes. but cops is the favored band wagon where someone reads a single internet article written by a website with an agenda couple with language and videos and statistics weighed in a manner to influence the reader.
There shouldn’t be any police misconduct considering the positions of trust they have.
There shouldn’t be any misconduct, anywhere, in that sense.
So because no one wants to acknowledge corrupt behavior in the military, we shouldn’t be critical towards law enforcement? I don’t quite see your reasoning. I agree that military leadership get away with a lotta shit, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t let law enforcement off the hook. Just outta curiosity, have you read the recent DoJ report on Ferguson PD?
I think there is lots of interest in exposing military corruption. When it happens no one calls you unAmerican. Corruption and criminal behavior lead to an ineffective military.
Last time I engaged fellow readers regarding police antics and wrong doing, I was lambasted with law enforcement hate, pretty much from everyone as a whole who see law enforcement as “the pigs in blue.” I was taken back by the vast amount of people who had this sentiment. The Colonel certainly put it a little more eloquently than I did, and with less expletives. However the message is the same. Standing up for whats right, and those that protect our freedoms is not “cool,” and is not supported by the masses.
It is hard, especially for those who serve and protect citizens, not to fall into an us versus them mentality. The antipathy towards citizens is palpable in many agencies, because of the attitude of those whom we protect. From military, to contracting, to corrections, to federal law enforcment, I often tell people about the desire and need to protect American lives, but it has changed more to protecting the idea of America, and the country itself rather than the inhabitants which neither understand nor care about those who serve. This is certainly not the attitude I would prefer, nor condone. However, when you are getting shit on every day from all angles, and you notice that the gradual hatred and disdain has turned to outright disapproval and hostility, it is hard as a human to ignore that.
It is great to speak of the nation in terms of hope and to see human beings and fellow citizens as generally being ethically, and morally sound, choosing freedom, patriotism, and the common good over all other facets discussed. It is hard to imagine anytime in the near future when attitudes or actions change. This era of social media, 24/7 media coverage, and unprecendented access to government and military actions will only lead us down a road of further contempt and disdain for those who serve.
“However, when you are getting shit on every day from all angles, and you notice that the gradual hatred and disdain has turned to outright disapproval and hostility, it is hard as a human to ignore that.”
Could mean that people take issue with your unions and your fellow cops who cover or say ‘they din do nuffin’ when they fuck up or kill some innocent person or flashbang a baby in the crib or shoot a sleeping man 16 times or shoot a man with his hands up in his doorway cause your wrist got tired, or shoot at two innocent asian ladies in a truck, or kill a homeless guy with your bare hands, or kill a homeless guy in the rocks as he’s turning away… I could go on.
Please go on, you only highlight the ignorance and idiocy we are discussing. People like you who continually highlight bad outcomes, and the bad choices of a small minority of officers. Nobody said every single law enforcment officer is perfect. But what people like you, shameful as you are, fail to highlight is the good, the lives saved, the people pulled from burning vehicles, the women saved from rapists or abusive husbands, the victims of gang crime, which immensely far outweight the bad. Congradulations at making yourself look like an idiot, people like you only serve to prove our point, so please go on.
To say that there isn’t a problem with policing is hilarious. Yeah cops do good things hurray for them but when they abuse their power and continually get a slap on the wrist who gives a shit that they do the good. I guess it is shameful to not suck the dick of cops in the name of freedom and patriotism!
Also I didn’t realize pointing out police misconduct was ignorant or idiotic. Guess I should just shut up and say yes sir!
No, as the Col. pointed out, you are entitled to your opinion, regardless of the baseless attacks you make. There would be no debate if everyone thought the same, but you speak about law enforcement as a whole, but the “facts” you are presenting represent a very small number of incidents. Just because you saw a patrolman shoot an unarmed black teen in the Midwest, doesnt mean that all police are dirty, corrupt, or are out on ego induced murder sprees looking to shoot everyone they encounter. You sure make it sound like you hate all police, yet I am sure you never had a good or bad encounter, you probably base you supposed knowledge from watching social media and anti-police news programs that paint all offenders as victims.
What baseless attacks am I making? I’m not even talking about Tamir Rice I’m talking about John Greer in Fairfax i’m talking about David Hooks, Kelly Thomas. People who the police said were doing one thing but were in fact not. John Greer was killed because the cop said his wrist got tired. 4 officers testified against him and nothing happens. David Hooks was shot in the back of the head as he was face down on the ground SWAT wasn’t even in the right place. No charges against those guys. Kelly Thomas was beat to death by a cop who told him he was going to fuck him up with his fists. All I, and many other Americans want is justice in the police force. Not the cop being fired and then quietly being rehired in some small town somewhere else.
So you are more at war with the penal system than the police. You claim that they are brought to trial, but not charged. This isnt a military tribunal, police are on trial in open court, by a jury of their CIVILIAN peers. So them not being charged is not a police issue. Maybe you should direct your disdain towards judges and democracy. I agree police that commit heinous acts should be charged, there is no place for that, and it degrades society and the trust placed upon them. I am simply saying not all police are corrupt or murderers, no more than the average citizen.
I’m not saying that all cops are murderers either. I just want accountability. Not the PBA or a Union getting them off.
Instead of restating problems, what is your solution ? Would you be the judge, jury, and executioner and execute any cop suspected of a crime. Or do we in fact live in a free deomcratic society where juries determine the fate of people on trial ? If a jury finds a cop not guilty, what more would you do ? Vigilante justice is not justice at all.
Bust police unions. Police departments shouldn’t be legally allowed to investigate themselves. Setup a civilian oversight board with no affiliations and no ties to LE. If a cop is fired from a police department that’s it can’t work in LE ever again. at least a DOUBLING of all charges that would be rendered against an officer. If you’re entrusted by our society to not be a scumbag you should have to feel enormous fucking penalties if it turns out that you are one.
Should a civilian oversight board with no affiliation or ties to aviation be formed to investigate aircraft crashes? Of course not. You need experienced pilots, engineers and others with actual, empirical knowledge of the field, not a political agenda.
juries aren’t experts in the law and yet we allow them to determine guilt or innocence. Cops should be tried in a court of law with juries made up of regular folks off the street. Letting their fellow cops review their actions is ridiculous.
We hate bad police. The fact that you don’t is most telling.
And yet this “small minority” of cops seem to suffer little punishment. Were the “Dorner pickup truck” cops disciplined? Was the Texas cop who had such poor trigger control that a bump on the wrist caused him to shoot a handcuffed inmate punished? Are cops who are too incompetent to check addresses before they conduct no-knock raids punished? Were the cops who ordered doctors to anally probe and enema David Eckart punished?
In case you don’t know, the answer is no.
I see this issue from both sides. My question to you is: if you feel your desire is to “protect the idea of America,” what happens when doing so requires the taking of American lives?
In your acquiescence you seem to have already written off your fellow citizens because they “neither understand you nor care about those who serve.”
I’d argue that if this is the case, you no longer serve them. It’s hard to take the moral high ground when those whom you serve vilify you in the same manner as those from whom you protect them. Nevertheless, you should still prefer to protect and serve Americans, and in doing so you will uphold the idea of America.
You are correct, it is the bad when law enforcement and police fall into the us versus them mentality. I recognize it, and I am not immune from it. I am human like everyone else. Yet, I still go to work everyday and protect and serve, and don’t racially profile, harass, insut, etc… Keeping personal feelings in check despite your gut telling you the opposite is the challenge. People are always quick to judge someone in power, from the beat cop to the President. They want quick easy answers, while disregarding the circumstances and backstory that put that person in the position. Media never presents whole pictures, they offer clips, or fragments that draw viewers and drama which increases ratings. The nightly news will never be able to capture the moment before a shooting, when an offender charged, or looked like he was pulling a gun. Its easy to Monday morning quarter back things that have already happened. Military, police, politicians, anyone who serves, their decisions are always challeneged after the fact. Lets not turn this into another police hate discussion, law enforcement is not the only one highlighted here.
Bravo
I agree. I can read stories all day of police indifference and misconduct. I have never personally worked with one, nor been in a position to be witness against one. I have discipline officers under me, including remedial training, hit intensity field training, and even termination. I have called other guys not under my command out for being ass holes. I have been in round table discussion with hypotheticals. but because i am a cop, no where near ferguson, new york, new mexico, etc. i am still grouped in with them and their actions. So saying that law enforcement are the ones developing the us s them, today, its quite the opposite. the public is the one pushing the police away, but its not the majority by any means. its just the loudest ones, with agendas. police unions are there to protect the officer, are we not provided due process? until you have been taken to court for civil rights violations, COMPLETELY BULLSHIT at that, by an inmate who had no qualms with the actions of his arrest, UNTIL 2 years later in prison with a jail house lawyer, time on his hands, then you will not understand unions. This is the first time i am using mine. Seeing officers being fed to the wolves for nothing but politics protection, you appreciate the unions. seeing an officer fired for made up or blown out of proportion policy violations for nothing other than sleeping with the captains ex wife. Or when an agent shoots someone on a elevated position throwing bowling ball sized rocks down with no are for coverage. there are plenty of news for unions, just as there are for any profession.
This is SSD talking. Our country has a system of due process. It’s called the court system. Since that is how due process is handled for citizens its’s the same place that should be used for government officials. Plenty of innocent people find themselves in court. Unless of course, all animals are equal but some animals are more equal then others?
For a citizen who goes to court, you typically have an Attorney. For an officer to go to court, he gets an attorney too right? No i may have been off by saying “union” as we don’t have unions in texas. But we do have associations. You are a member, they provide training, assistance, and one of those benefits is legal counsel with no retainer, etc. Its covered by the association. No different than the CHL legal plans that are being pushed now, as recently seen by LAV being a spokesperson for one. Innocent find themselves in court all the time, its just a part of the system. law enforcement work on probable cause, the prosecutors office works on beyond a reasonable doubt. If LE had that burden of proof, 99% of offenders would never be filed on. But do law enforcement not deserve the same process? here in Texas, every police shooting goes to the grand jury. I was shocked when that was just an “option” in other states. the CCP in texas gives me the same authority of self defense and defense of a third person as it does any other citizen. so just like castle doctrine stye cases go to the grand jury, so do LE shootings. I do agree about agencies investigating themselves, and in my history we did so for policy violations but for unlawful acts, cases were referred to DA, Sheriff’s Office, or Texas Rangers. And i can’t speak for their investigations. They do however find officers libel and file cases, but those cases all too often get overlooked, as theres no controversy.
I am one of those innocent people who is finding themselves in court. The evidence i have does not only prove me not guilty, but proves me INNOCENT to the allegations of this convicted felon who is using the suit as a means of transferring to a near by unit to his hometown as well as getting some privileges by going to court on the feds dime. But because the current temperature of law enforcement is so tense, the judge is afraid of the political inference of dismissing the case. Now while the legal side of things is covered, the stress on me and my family, my past agency and current agency (i was not fired, and am on my third agency, the prior two of which i have been promoted countless times, so i am not a gypsy cop) and the threat it has on my career and future is tolling. To sit here and say i have never broken the law under color of law (i have sped, AND been ticketed, took my punishment -never laid the LE card, but thats it), never violated rights, never done anything i wouldn’t have done if my wife mother or father was there, given that extra punch for prides sake, played the contempt of cop charge, etc. is futile as you don’t know me, i don’t know you, and its much easier for most to say they don’t believe that kind of officer exists. I know these kind of officers, and i know officers that are questionable or i don’t like how they work, but i have never seen them break the law where i would have stepped in. but again, no one wants to believe that exists. I have always said i will not lie for you, so don’t put me in that position….
Of course you should have an attorney. That’s the American system of justice. But, things should never be dealt with administratively.
Criminal actions should typically not and I agree.
But then again, this happens in every profession too. Theft, drugs, alcohol, sexual assault, assault, etc are often handled “in house” in various professions. Even the good ol military. Now they have the ucmj, but why is that not seen as be investigated by your own? When a sexual assault is made to a PD of an assault by a military member on base, the big uncle Sam swoops in with court orders and takes all evidence, papers, videos, copies, ransacking PD looking for anything remotely tied in? Then dealing with the victim and trying to console her when her case goes no where…. And she can’t get answers let alone local Le getting any info…
Discipline is a cornerstone of military service and it is governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Do not bring up military justice and LE. The biggest difference between the military and LE is that the military is more than happy to hold its people accountable. You guys would shit your pants if you had to deal with the UCMJ. The military does not fuck around. They send people to prison on the regular for stuff that folks on the street get probation for. There aren’t any unions to cry to.
And yes, I see no need for unions for government employees.
Officer go to prison too.
Just read an army times post with a list of court marshal charges that was quite interesting… And can raise just as many question about policing they’re own. But LE aren’t judge jury and executioner of their own. Would asking for a civilian review board be just as prudent?
If you’re talking about the case against BG Sinclair, it is surprising that he wasn’t prosecuted but if you actually followed the case you’d know that there was evidence of prosecutorial misconduct and the “victim” had a problem with the truth.
You might want to look into the UCMJ a little more. There is a civilian review process for those convicted. Congress on the other hand, has been looking at how the military handles rape cases because it wants to see them more aggressively prosecuted. With a daughter in the military, I agree that they should be more aggressive in making military service free from sexual assault but I’m not sure that creating a new system of justice for one type of crime is the right answer. Personally, I find even one sexual assault in the military to be too many, but the numbers aren’t as common as you are led to believe. Kind of like that rare police misconduct we are supposed to disregard.
Never said disregard….
What amazes me is the pick-and-choose knowledge of history that some groups have. The civil liberties we have today far exceed those of the past, and I’m not talking about things like slavery and suffrage. The Coal Mine Wars, Draft Riots, Pennsylvania uprising, forced boarding schools for the children of certain ethnicity, the Tuskegee Experiment, internment of Americans of Japanese heritage without due process during WW2, FBI secret intel gathering under Hoover, none of that could or would happen today, or if it was attempted, the media et al that we love to hate would be all over it.
The government is a bloated bureaucracy, but it beats the alternative. I LIKE the EPA making sure that industry isn’t disposing of mercury into the aquifer, and that someone inspects elevators and makes sure that the electricity coming into my house is the correct voltage and amperage. Are mistakes made? Absolutely. But anyone who has studied quality control know that however many Six Sigma or Kwaizen type programs are implemented, there will never be 100% efficiency and 100% lack of error.
Personally, I have tried to adopt the Way of the Duck, and just let it roll off. You can’t change a person’s position that is based on emotions with facts. Anyone who has been married should know that.
Stingray and the NSA metadata nets would disagree with you.
And as I said, the media has been all over it. 5 years ago no one had ever heard of the NSA. editorially speaking. Now it’s a household phrase. Next it will be the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency for providing drought and wildfire imagery.
Great, we have more media coverage. But nothing comes of it. There is still no accountability involved. I’m not sure whats worse, doing terrible things without the public knowing or doing terrible things blatantly in full view.
No accountability? The head of the CIA bangs a writer and what happens? What actual, tangible harm was done to US citizens by an over-reaching NSA? Are they vacuuming intel like they used to, or was the problem resolved?
People who want “accountability” want their version of “accountability,” which typically involves hanging someone from a lamppost, regardless of due process or rule of law.
just like those that cry for a court hearing, but when it doesn’t go there way, they change their minds. the cattle deal in Nevada, bundy dude wanted a court hearing, so he got one. and he lost, but he continued his shit. If he would’ve won and the feds were like nah, we’re still gonna do this thing, everyone would cry about the court said, the court said. But when it didn’t go his way, its now the courts fault.
people done want Justice, they want their justice.
Agreed
+1 Unfortunately all too often true.
TLB
A very articulate and level headed look at the current state of our nation, our past, and our future. Thank you for your time to pen out this out. Unfortunately, this won’t gather as much steam as ranting hate salesmen, even though it’s more grounded and fact based.
As a current LEO, this seems to be part of the cycle of political rhetoric that is not unseen, although it still remains to be seen how long this one will last. As I’m now on the back end of my career, I try not to pay as much attention to the pot stirrers as they just cause irritation and jaw clinching. But it’s still disturbing to witness the fervor that they create and that real life disconnect manifest in our public.
A better educated public is too much to ask for in our current state of, instant information via Hollywood or the internet. Sadly, most Americans today couldn’t tell you what the Constitution reflects, governs, or represents.
Terry, thank you for your insight and history lesson.
Cry more
diggler, are you mocking the original post and his concerns? If so, what profession are you? Are you a LEO? Military or former military? In, or ever worked in the government? The reason I ask is that yes, EVERY profession as its share of scum. No exceptions. If you don’t understand this, then you are either extremely fortunate to work in a profession filled with studs, you are naive, or you are just a douche.
I am former military, current LEO, worked intel, logistics, operations, almost the entire spectrum. There are bad for certain in all those fields. What a lot miss, is that LEOs and military as well, are either enforcing the laws or carrying out the policies of the politicians. So if you don’t like the law or policy, change the politicians. Most LEOs and military have little discretion in how we interpret our orders. Most of us do the best we can.
Most of us are Patriots and will be the first on the line when things go bad, where will you be diggler and matty?
There is a dark side of me that would love to see the anarchy some of you want. You’ll be some of the first preyed upon by the strong.
There is a dark side of me that would love to see the anarchy some of you want. You’ll be some of the first preyed upon by the strong.
I’d like to say I’m shocked Jeff. I’m active military and what you’ve just said is some of the most ridiculous shit ever. No one is calling for anarchy. Just for accountability. Seriously go sit in the corner and think about what you just said.
ACAB
Craig,
I had never heard of the term ACAB until today. It turns my stomach. It falls into exactly the same category as those nasty and unconscionable racial and ethnic slurs we have all heard that are intended to paint an entire group of people as lesser human beings. Like every other human group in history, a very few blue people have done some bad things. So now you feel it necessary to hate all blue people. I would suggest that says more about you than it does about them.
TLB
But that is SO much more acceptable then saying the N word…. why?
Joe,
All I can say is that neither is acceptable to me. And I’m sure it isn’t acceptable to a lot of other people as well.
TLB
Joe,
Neither is acceptable to me. And I’m sure a lot of other people feel the same way.
TLB
My bad. It’s been awhile since I had a double post negligent discharge.
No it doesn’t.
Sure, it is a generalization that is wrong in many instances (and right in others), but to compare it to racial and ethnic slurs? how dare you.
particularly when police are frequently victimizing those based on racist pretenses.
balais,
I dare because it is an accurate characterization of a hateful word or in this case a phrase.
It is being used in exactly same way that racist slurs are and is designed to dehumanize or denigrate an entire group of people.
And like racial slurs, the users try to “justify” their hate speech by pointing to the actions of a few. Neither should be tolerated.
TLB
I’m not going to give that silly phrase that amount of power. They are incomparable. It’s kind of like calling a military guy “baby killer”. Getting upset about it is laughable. It doesn’t have nearly the sting of a racial epithet because it doesn’t define who one is. People can’t change the color of their skin and racial slurs are used to dehumanize ethnic identity. On the other hand, people choose to be Soldiers or cops. When their uniform is off, you don’t know who they are.
SSD,
You are absolutely right about the power part. And I’m not suggesting it is on par with the N Word.
Sure, police can take off the blue suit and blend in. But should police in our society have to hide their identity when off duty?
When did it become shameful to be recognized as a police officer?
When did police work become such a threat to civil liberties that we must rail against police at every opportunity?
When did police become the enemy that “real patriots” and “lovers of freedom” must take turns spitting on?
The entire tone of the conversation is troubling to me.
I also admit I don’t find being called a “baby killer” laughable. Maybe you are right that I should but I don’t.
TLB
If you’re not killing any babies, why let it bother you. People are gonna hate. I just don’t want them to be able to use their position to do it more efficiently. There will always be those that want to watch the world burn and there will always be those that want to keep it safe. The peacekeepers need to exhibit maturity and a level head, otherwise they are just tearing it all down but in a uniform.
No one said that a Policeman should have to hide who he is. You’re not getting my intent. Try this. Guess what a black cop is when he takes his uniform off? He’s a black guy that some shithead is going to call then N word, no matter how much of a standup guy the is. That’s the difference. Same goes with a Doctor when he takes off his coat or a Priest who takes off his collar. Once they are in regular clothing they are just some guy on the street, unless of course they are Latin or Asian or Native American or Black. Then, they are always identified by their race no matter what uniform they wear to work part of the day.
We can’t run from who we are racially but we get to choose what kind of a man we want to be. And that’s how I want to measured and how I look at others. So don’t equate a slur meant to demean what a man can’t change with a taunt about a career choice.
SSD,
Well said. I had not considered it that way. Thanks!
TLB
I just looked that up. Ok, not impressed.
True.
But first and foremost, they are servants of the state. The times they do conduct themselves honorably, they do so out of their own kindness and personal will. If this isn’t disturbing to anybody that values freedom, then it should.
I dont expect them to be anything than what they already are: servants of the state.
balais,
You seem to suggest that police or other government employers should be willing to let you insult them endlessly because you “pay their salaries”. Would you be?
They are your fellow citizens and deserve the same consideration and basic human dignity as you demand for yourself. Servants yes…but you don’t “own” them.
Would you let your boss treat you that way? If someone at your work was caught stealing then that person should be removed and punished accordingly.
But would you “grin and bear it” if your boss then – presuming that everyone must be guilty by association – demanded that all employees submit to a strip search. I doubt either you or I would.
You seem to have genuine empathy for those who have been wronged by a small minority of police. That is admirable.
Maybe you can also muster some sympathy for those who have volunteered to take on the difficult and largely thankless task of combatting crime and keeping communities safe. That would be admirable too.
TLB
Well said.
“insult”?
“servants of the state” is not a term of endearment, but it is also not a insult, it is a irrefutable FACT. You can argue with it all you want because it sounds disturbing, but that doesn’t make it any less true.
“They are your fellow citizens and deserve the same consideration and basic human dignity as you demand for yourself. Servants yes…but you don’t “own” them.”
I agree and I never claimed to “own” anybody individually. But their prime purpose is to serve the public, not their personal honey pots, their political ambitions, and their aspirations for building a reputation. Of course, like I said before, it takes the actions of a few and certain cliques (like the NYPD) to undue the good actions and mar public perception.
“You seem to have genuine empathy for those who have been wronged by a small minority of police. That is admirable”
My empathy is for the unsung oppressed who are ground up by the system. It is unpopular to say so, particularly because of conservative sensibilities, but these groups of people are minorities, the poor/impoverished, and those caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with unintended consequences spiraling out of control.
My sympathy is for those that serve valoriously, bearing their badge with honor, against the evil intentions of those that abuse the public trust to enrich their own coffers. They are far too numerous to ignore or downplay. Many police officers have paid the price when going against the grain, in defiance of the blue wall of silence.
The most deplorable of culprits are, of course, elected officials. That goes without saying. Like the Roman senate in the days of old, they are corrupted and rotted beyond vindication.
balais,
Well said.
I’m, probably just slow but this post finally gave me a much better understanding of where you are coming from.
Thanks!
TLB
So much of the anti police attitude comes from the behaviour of police. Civil asset forfeiture is legalized theft. Violent over reactions to minor acts of disrespect, getting away with bad shootings that should never have happened. Petty enforcement of bad law etc etc. I think more and more people realize that if our police were ordered to do things that are morally reprehensible, many would comply.
Yes. I think most of the Butt Hurt on this thread is that the problem is not being stated correctly: The apparatus/system is broken, and it is broken in such a way as to allow sufficiently motivated individuals to use the apparatus/system to their own ends, which has fuck-all to do with the needs of the population at large.
Consequently, Macro problems are being conflated with Micro behavior, with predictable commentary as a result.
Nail on the head.
Based on what? a FEW, VERY FEW highly publicized incidents? Police don’t make the assets forfeiture laws. You know who processes those? DA’s (usually). DA’s are elected by YOU….. Petty enforcement of bad laws? can you get me a list of “important laws” then? and i completely disagree with your last statement. do you have any examples of this? or just spit balling based of personal beliefs?
We all know that there are former cops who teach other cops how to target people for asset forfeiture. We’ve all seen cops drive around in cars that were stolen by the police from people. We know that cops pick and choose which vehicles they will seize leaving some on the side of the road.
I don’t know what corner of the Country you guys live in? where does a cop get to personally use forfeit assets? Sure, cars are often forfeit, typically this is associated with narcotics cases; when a drug dealer purchases X vehicle with illegal proceeds of his drug dealing business. Are you saying the drug dealer, perhaps the same guy selling dope to kids(?) should get to keep the car he bought with dope money. Is it bad that that car is then used as a UC car for future investigations?
I guess I’m confused, it sounds like you are talking about personal use/purchase. which, at least where I’m from is hugely illegal.
I guess we all have to understand that from State to State policing is very different. I don’t doubt there are certain areas where the percentage of “bad cops” is higher than others.
I agree with most of the post to this point, if they’re bad deal with them. criminal charges or internally, there is no room for dirty/corrupt cops. but we all need to be careful about painting with a broad brush. much of the stuff mentioned thus far, would result in criminal charges in my corner of the world, and has in the past…
I don’t go around saying all clergy, boy scout leaders, teachers, etc. are sex offenders. But I’ve investigated far more of the above for sex crimes against children than I have cops for crimes. That said, cops do get arrested/charged around here.
Someone above mentioned a department should never be allowed to investigate their own officer involved shooting. that is correct, it should be a seperate agency with a secondary over site (in our case DA’s office), to ensure a complete and correct investigation is conducted.
All we want is to be fairly evaluated, individually, regionall, or whatever. Someone above mentioned how he had never been to Furgason, New York, or New Mexico….. so to liken all to the actions of a few is a diservice to both sides of the conversation.
I am the same confused when it comes to asset forfeiture. The only assets i have been involved in seizing have been those procured through illegal means; as you said it is often narcotics related, but we have also seized tools and vehicle from burglary rings, guns that were being trafficked, etc. And as i said, the always goes through the DA’s office. They always get the biggest cut of auctioned or seized assets, and these funds are used to provide training, fund child advocacy centers, fund additional staffing and supplies, etc. with marginal amounts being given back to the P.D., but as you stated, they are used to turn around and continue the crime fighting.
Thank you for proving our point.
“its the laws, not the cops” bullshit. This means that they are servants of the state until otherwise and should be viewed as nothing more.
But yet, all the arguments are about cops acting with disregard to the laws and breaking the laws, and over stretching their authority, but when they act within the bounds of the laws they are servants of the state? If i enforce a law you don’t like, i am a servant of the state, if i don’t enforce a law you like, then i am lazy and corrupt?
Good point.
“If i enforce a law you don’t like, i am a servant of the state, if i don’t enforce a law you like, then i am lazy and corrupt?”
You miss the point. By a mile.
My focus was on the beating to death of a mentally disabled man, the recent video portraying the patrol rifle firing squad, the flashbang burnt infants, etc, etc.
Great post. While I do disagree with you on some of the opinion based parts of this piece, I appreciate the thought and care you took to construct this article. I am with you the majority of the way.
As a Special Forces soldier myself, it is becoming harder and harder to come to grips with what I have spent the last 10 years doing and losing brothers for; and at the same time to see the increasing militarization of the police at home (a separate issue than the much publicized “police aggressiveness.”) Add that to high levels of government espionage on all citizens and it is hard to know truly what to think.
Like you pointed out, I did not consider all this till much later in my career – I would say that a majority never really do. For myself, that is perhaps the saddest part of all – the apathy on the part of so many is more scary than the things I named above. Too many people that I know rely on what fox news or cnn tells them to think and they leave it at that, content to argue endlessly with each other over meaningless topics.
If found this line so relentlessly brilliant and time-tested –
“our Nation today remains as strong and resilient and gloriously imperfect as it has ever been”
While I do not know the good Colonel, I surmise he’s spent much of his life making sacrifices for this country. Those who have built and sustained liberty often seem to take offense to those who have enjoyed the fruits but made little of the sacrifice. The use of the ACAB abbreviation brings that out that sentiment most strongly in me.
As Smedley Butler more than earned his right to the opinions of what was wrong in this United States, I believe LTC Baldwin has as well. We are an imperfect country, so much so the President refuses to deport hundreds of thousands of people who feloniously violated our immigration laws. That says something about the value others place in this country does it not?
I am glad you see that as a presidential mistake, as here in Texas, its becoming another topic pinned on the police!
LTC Baldwin,
I enjoyed reading your letter. Thank you for taking the time to “hunt and peck” that out. I’d very much like to read your perspective on the economics of modern politics – campaign finance, lobbyists writing bills etc. Do you think the voices of ordinary individuals can match those of billionaire activists?
Doug,
Times change. The Founding Fathers didn’t imagine anyone would ever want to be a “professional politician”. I think they would scoff at the very idea. None of the jobs paid that well. Washington DC was in an actual swamp. And there was no fame or fortune involved…and not that much individual power.
I wish that term limits and some kind of campaign finance controls had been built into the Constitution.
Dellis hits on the intersection of politics and celebrity below. I’ve been thinking a great deal about that lately. It seems far too many politicians are more interested in promoting their personal “brand” than they are about doing the job they were elected to do.
I can name several of both parties that seem to spend all of their time in Iowa and New Hampshire and building their warchests for their next campaign (ambitions). I’d personally like to get that dynamic under control.
But in the end I have to blame we the people for all of that nonsense. Despite the big “upset” in this last election. We still re-elect 95% of the incumbents every time. Even while complaining incessantly about how dissatisfied we are with our representatives.
Our rhetoric doesn’t match our actions. And I can’t explain that one.
TLB
As a current law enforcement officer and an activated National Guard soldier currently serving in Afghanistan, I am relieved and fully endorse the LTC’s essay.
I am leaving the Army after three deployments to this country and looking forward to going back to the streets with the courageous men and women of my department. I became a police officer specifically because I wanted to ensure the constitution were protected from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. And apathy and outright hatred of the most visible of all governmental reach (i.e. LEOs) is getting out of hand.
Everyone makes mistakes. Occasionally, those mistakes cost lives. I will never claim the police are not infallible, as police officers are human with their own morals, desires and cares in this world. I have seen my co-workers perform out right miracles to save lives, and I have seen others succumb to the easy power placed into their hands.
It is a constant struggle, everyday, to police a community in which you live, especially when everyone is eager to Monday morning quarterback every decision you make. And I would not change my profession for anything else.
If you want to make change, get involved, take the job, vote responsibly, or continue to bitch on the internet.
“Remember the past, plan for tomorrow, but perform today.
SGT Six, L.
1-186th INF, 41st BCT
Eastern Afghanistan
Very well written essay though I take exception at some points and left with a somewhat dissatisfied feeling.
Some of the anti-police rhetoric IS over the top and too general. Specificity to an incident helps much. While law enforcement does a critically important job they also suffer from letting loyalty to their peers overcome their duty. Military officers are often lambasted even more than Police and often by others in uniform. Some of it is very well deserved but the stereotype isn’t. These are two extremes of the same problem. The right level of criticism and self criticism is somewhere in the middle.
“Looking back” to better times isn’t always bad. It provides motivation to make things better now and (not to make people uncomfortable invoking religious examples) the belief that Christ was perfect in the promoting of positive principles provides practicing Christians strength to make themselves better every day The founding fathers weren’t perfect but their principles were and it’s highly informative to not only read the constitution but other founding documents written by the founding fathers to combat some of the “living constitution” narrative used to fundamentally rewrite some of our key individual rights.
That rewriting has been happening quite more often in the last 5-6 years. This otherwise very well written essay doesn’t address some of those recent events which have very appropriately fueled concern about gov’t over reach.
Sadly addressing all the excesses of some and not others unwittingly (or with intent) gives a pass to the other extremes. Unfortunately, an essay that also addressed the Gov’t’s tendency to e.g. include veterans or christians as potential sources of extremism but ignores Radical Islam to the point of specifically avoiding the term may be too long to post here. It does not mean this and many other issues are any less.
Add recent gov’t over reach in a variety of personal rights to include the Federal Gov’t requiring Americans to buy something, efforts to circumvent Congress by Presidential fiat, the use of Gov’t institutions to persecute a specific political segment lend credence to a Gov’t conspiracy. So many coincidences in such a short time defy the laws of probability.
So while I embrace the essay overall it’s rosy outlook and discounting of some real trends leave me disturbed.
majrod,
I wasn’t discounting anything or giving anyone a pass. Just trying to keep the novella from becoming a novel.
See my comment below to David reference the rosy outlook part.
TLB
In hindsight “discounting” was the wrong word. You have to address something first to discount it.
Length is a real issue when writing and your wrote a very good essay. I just finished reading it not feeling you gave those that are concerned about the gov’t’s direction enough credence for feeling the way they do (and yes you have the mud dslingers and the bombastic types but there are others). I left feeling you minimized the threat of what’s going on now to our liberties.
We may feel exactly the same on those issues. I can’t tell and the challenge of space may be the cause but it’s a valid point.
majrod,
My focus was primarily on rebutting the bomb throwers and the hot heads. No more and no less. Still the piece got considerably longer than I had originally intended. I appreciate that SSD posted it anyway.
So I was not trying to address everything else you have brought up. But I do agree they are valid points to discuss.
It is hard to tell, but I do suspect that we might have different views – or at least different interpretations – on a number of those issues.
Maybe we will have the chance to drill down in detail sometime in the future.
TLB
Very well said.
Thank you sir for a well thought out and well written perception of our current reality. Having been in law enforcement for 20 plus years now and having served in two armed services over the course of my adult life, I do share your sentiment. I would like to make this article required reading for the young people in our law enforcement explorer post. This commentary has brought out some hard facts that do inspire hope in our future. At times I find myself feeling very scared and depressed over the direction I fear our country is going. Sometimes I fear that we have hit that tipping point where we can not wrest our great nation back from the people who, the way I see it want to degrade us and from what I see believe we have been a problem on this earth not a beacon for liberty and justice.
I get depressed when the likes of Jim Carey who has compared our troops to those of Ganges Khan, or Nancy Pelosi who has warned that our returning vets are people to watch as home grown right wing terrorist and even the president who continues to remind the world that supposed Christians committed acts of atrocities against the Muslims, even though he has to go back about 800 years in world history, continue to get re-elected. Sometimes it is hard to not get pulled into the “Conspiracy Theater” to a degree, especially when we have had this president and his Attorney General siding with criminals on every highly emotionally charged officer involved shooting or use of force incident we have had in this country. It is hard not to come to the conclusion that this administration is deliberately subverting our nation when they are siding with former enemies at the expense of and shunning our one true ally in the middle east. I have to watch what news i read or listen to anymore because the more I hear the more depressed I get at seeing what appears to be our once great nation as a nation that is purposely being put in state of decline. Lt. Colonel Baldwin I hope to regain your optimism but sometimes it seems that Johnathan Gruber was right, although I will not go as far as saying the American people are stupid, I will say many of them are willfully ignorant. Until we get our education system out of the hands of the NEA and teach the principals you wrote of, I fear we are in trouble.
Thank You again for writing this.
David Spicer
OATH KEEPER
Bill, I can’t reply to you for some reason. Once the FAA starts kicking in doors and shooting dogs that’s when I’ll care that they investigate themselvss. I don’t trust cops to not look out for each other when it comes to petty things like rule of law Or morality.
Matty,
A couple of questions:
Have you personally been treated poorly, unfairly, mistreated, improperly, unlawfully, or made to feel badly by anyone operating under the color of law.
Can you tell us your chosen profession?
Thanks
I’m in the military and yes I have been harassed by the police for nothing more than walking down the street in norfolk. (no I wasn’t drunk and no I wasn’t breaking things). I’m not quite sure why you’re bringing profession into this though Mark.
Please define “harassed” and place it in context. What time of the day or night was it? What type of neighborhood? What was going on in the area at the time? Why did the cops contact you? Did they ask you what you were doing, or where you were going? Did they ask for ID? Did they pat you down? Did they call you mean names?
“Walking down the street” means one thing in a business district or residential area at 1500 and another at 0300.
“The cops harassed me” complaint that I hear so often from anti-cop people like yourself usually doesn’t hole up to scrutiny in the light of day. It usually turns out to be little more than a brief consensual encounter where the police speak with and identify someone and then move on once satisfied that no crime is occurring.
I would be interested in knowing more about this “harassment” you have been subjected to.
Mat, as a cop I am curious as to what your definition of harassment is? Just last night while on patrol I stopped to help a kid on a four wheeler stuck in a snow drift in a ditch. This young man refused my help. I am wondering if he could have thought I was harassing him. Is it possible someone called you in as acting suspicious? Our office will not refuse a call and we have to go no matter how stupid the call is.
Tru Dat. Dogs and Sailors, keep off the grass…
I used to get stopped by NPD frequently, when walking back from the Wok-In on E. Little Creek. Didn’t matter what time, day or night. You’d think they’d have caught on after stopping me a few times a month, for months on end, that I wasn’t a threat
Maybe I was eating my fried rice too aggressively. Or something.
First, I want to give my thanks to all you people who put your life at risk, both military and LEO, EMS, firefighters and all first responders.
I see in Terry’s post a line I posted up in a rant of mine about the Feds being like the “Gestapo”. My point was not that they are going house to house and snatching people up (my uncle was a member of Hitler’s SS) but rather they seem to be putting their hands into areas of Americans and America where it was never intended or meant to go. Yet who can stop them? I mean really, who can stop the Feds from gaining more and more intrusive power?
For example, Lois Lerner lies bold faced. Nothing happens. Eric Holder, lies, bold faced. Nothing happens. These people, politicians in general (all parties) are above the law. So now Lois gets a big fat retirement and it will NEVER be taken away even if we find an Email that says, “Let’s go right after anyone and everyone who has right leaning conservative values”. If anyone here can defend her, and any lying two faced political bitch I would declare you have your head deep up their ass.
Mr. David Spicer, you are correct in your fears about the American voter and sadly Gruber was right, the majority of voters are stupid! The Obama administration just bold faced lied to us all during the re-election campaign and the whole Benghazi tragedy. Yet he gets re-elected….how the hell did that happen?
I will tell you how. The people that his team went seeking don’t watch the news but rather watch the Kardashians, The Bachelor, Bachlerette, and South Park. They get their news from Jon Stewart Daily Show. Obama’s target is the un-informed voter. What in the hell has Kim Kardashian EVER done except reveal to the world how she likes her sex? So our sad society rewards a whore with a TV show and $100 million bucks! She likes Obama, so her Twitter (TWITS) followers wanna be like Kim (and like all other dimwit celebs) and vote for him also. Is it not sad when people ask people on the street if they will vote for Obama again in 2016 and they say, “Yes of course!”??
So why my rant on this when the topic is about something totally different? Well it only appears different because these dimwit kids will BE THE ONES running the show for us all in a few short years and that scares the shit out of me and it should everyone. To this rising generation there is no Absolute right or wrong. If little Timmy feels like a girl then by all means we need to nuture that so he/she is not mentally traumitized. We will soon (in fact we already do) have people in powerful places, judges and lawmakers, who do not hold to Absolutes.
Some will say, “Then vote the right people in!” Apparently this does nothing because while the people spoke in a big way, giving the Repubs a large amount of power, things have not changed and will not change because something happens when they sit their lying asses down in those chairs. Again, what can The People do?
So, then when some people see the writing on the wall and start to express their feelings of distrust about their government, both local, state and federal, they are many times labeled “fringe”, “right wing nuts”, “racist christians”, “tinfoil hat conspiracy nuts” and a host of other names. I believe this is done to shut them up because no one wants those labels, at least no one sane.
Do I hate cops? Nope, because the overwhelming majority are fine people doing a hard and difficult job. My father served 31 years in the Army so nothing but awe and respect for our military personnel.
Here’s what bothers me though….just posted up last week is a story on a place in Chicago called “Homan Square”. Some call it a “black site” where they take you and hold you without notifying anyone where you are at. Now “IF” this be true then how come I don’t see all the good cops out marching against this type of stuff that makes them ALL look like the asshats people say they are? Is it that “Code” of police that will not allow them to speak out? How many other “black sites” do other cities have?
If that be so then cops who feel like they are getting wrapped up with all the scum in their line of work need to ther shut their pieholes when they don’t speak out against corrupt cops and officials.
Dellis,
I did make note of your use of the use of the term “Gestapo” and was disturbed by it. Still, when I pointed out to you that I thought it was over the top you went on to explain what had you riled up in a coherent and civil way. I appreciated that.
I not trying to deny anyone the option to rant on any subject they feel passionate about. I certainly want to be able to do that myself. I don’t want to shut anyone up. I’m just stating my preference that everyone remain generally civil and attack a position rather than an individual’s character.
I assure you that, except for that one word, your posts are definitely not what I was speaking against. But in that one instance after you “opened that door” some of the others who jumped in got pretty ugly. That isn’t the first time that has happened on this site.
TLB
Nothing but respect for you and your views Terry. No worries my friend
Dellis,
Same here. Thanks!
TLB
Eisenhower lied straight out about Russia shooting down a U-2. Justified in the interest of national security.
Do I think Lois Lerner or Eric Holder lied for much less enlightened rationale? Yep.
Honestly I would have tons more respect for some politician who, when seen they were wrong or screwed up, just came out and said….”I was wrong and I am sorry for misleading the American people. I ask for your forgiveness, and if not, I understand.”
There….simple and to the point. No talking points, no apologists….just come out and face up to it.
Those aren’t the kind of people who become politicians.
Amen to that…I wonder why though? I own a small but growing business. I screw up time to time and I can’t pass it off onto my employees even if they did forget something because I am the boss. So I face it, and make it right for the customer. They appreciate that and I retain a customer, perhaps gain another, even though I am embarrassed by the screw up.
Perhaps people who would be like that (as in politicians) and do not “play the game” and are then quickly smeared or bullied out of office or any further desire to be a politician
There have been no specific allegations or torture or cia-esque black site tactics. Hell, it’s a standard ol detention facility that EVERYONE knows about. There’s ONE person, arrested and convicted 3 years ago who says he didn’t get a lawyer for several hours and was shackled. So he was cuffed, nothing new. Did he expressly ask for an attorney? If not that’s HIS bad. Despite what the movies and tv make it look like, YOU have to ask for an attorney. Also, on tv when a suspect says they want to remain silent, that’s on them to remain silent. Doesnt mean we have too. Courts have said if you’re an adult then it’s your responsibility to know your rights. We’ll read them to you as is, but it’s still on you. So they have based their entire protesting of a black site facility on one guy who didn’t even care enough to show up. And they are now looking for other “victims”. Reminds me of a class action lawsuit commercial. If there was black site type shit going on there’d have been PLENTY of allegations occurring!
Talk about willful ignorance.
Even wikipedia has quite a resource of information about “black sites” and CIA nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site
It doesn’t just come from “one person who didn’t bother to show up”.
People that dismiss such crimes are no better than ones to order such criminals to do such acts.
Look up who the mayor of Chicago is, study up on his relationship with the Chicago PD, and then tell me that if credible evidence came to light of police misconduct, that there wouldn’t be a thorough investigation, even while the nails were being sharpened to crucify the cops involved. Guilty or not.
David,
I wasn’t trying to move anyone towards Pollyannaish optimism but rather pushing back from endless pessimism towards more realism. Not rosy, but rational. It seems ironic to me that people fixate constantly only on the singular aberrations while disregarding the more significant norms.
Consider this. Despite what we see in the movies and TV, crimes being committed with AR15 / AK47 style weapons are statistically near zero. Therefore, even if you disregard the 2nd Amendment and somehow magically eliminated all “assault weapons” including those in criminal hands there would be no change in crime statistics. I know that is hard for families that lost children at Newtown for example to accept. But that is the fact. Removing a factor that already has almost no effect will result in zero impact. And the “if it saves one life it is worth it” argument is tantamount to emotional blackmail. I don’t want to see anyone’s children die either. But that is not a rational justification for even considering abridging the rights of millions of Americans.
Police involved shootings or other deaths, justified or otherwise, are actually very uncommon in our country. There are countless daily interactions, arrests, warrants served, etc. between the police and citizens that are only remarkable in that they are unremarkable. Check the statistics of any of the police watchdog groups and the Government numbers and you will find general agreement that accusations of police malfeasance account for only a tiny fraction of police on duty. That is also a verifiable fact. Still, like the anti-gun people above some people want to argue that “one case is one too many” and then “jump the shark” to cast blanket aspersions on all police. That is an emotional reaction not a rational response supported by facts.
I’m not advocating that anyone deny or minimize police failures or missteps. No one is above the law. We can all work to correct actual injustice every time we become aware of it. But it is irrational to demand that the 99% should have to share guilt by association because of those few. Perfect cannot reasonably be the minimum standard for our police or any other profession.
TLB
I always like to tell people who criticize us, please apply and join us. If you want change we need people to act. Not yap! But the critics love to point out the flaws yet when push comes to shove who steps up? Just like the military there are those who accept the calling and a WHOLE bunch who don’t…
I also think there are a great many who believe pointing out obvious problems makes one an intellectual. And therefore, entitled to be listened to.
Many are great ay pointing out problems, often in a list format as if this enhances their arguments. What does not happen is a rational, well thought out solution based upon experience.
Why? So you can harass and threaten them? Serpico, Schoolcraft and that cop down in miami who ticketed a fellow cop who was harassed and stalked by other cops? Outstanding. Your organization sure does give me hope!
The world does not revolve around you, Mr. Matty.
You seem to be making wild eyed accusations, without evidence. With your crack about organizations.
Individuals are responsible for their actions, you are painting with a broad brush, or more to the point; graffiti.
The legal system looks at individuals, rather than groups of people. You are grouping under: geography, occupation, media reports, and your own perceptions. As each situation is unique, nothing is gained by this grouping. Each jurisdiction does in fact have its own mechanism for dealing with each situation, basing decisions and outcomes based in fact. This is an imperfect system, but it is the nature of our system, a Constitutional Republic.
If we fail to examine facts, or ignore them, then should our legal system be replaced with the option of turning to: coin tosses or other games of chance, or better yet, emotions.
I am sorry you feel you were harassed. I would suggest a complaint to the organizations chain of command.
Many are great ay pointing out problems, often in a list format as if this enhances their arguments. What does not happen is a rational, well thought out solution based upon experience. I said this earlier…
I don’t believe I ever indicated that the world did Mr.Mark. Yes individuals are responsible for their actions but unfortunately it seems that cops aren’t for the most part.
http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/officers-man-had-hands-when-shot-va-police
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/
http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/11/georgia-man-killed-in-drug-raid-was-face
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/sheriff-makes-policy-changes-after-man-shot-16-times-in-bed/
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-shoot-man-multiple-times-traffic-stop-obeying-officers-commands/
Those arent wild eyed accusations you ignorant dupe.
Those are inconvenient facts that prove that honorable people in police forces often find themselves ground up in the cogs of that very system. And that “join them and change it from the inside” is delusional cornucopian nonsense that bears no true in reality.
Until more and more police say enough is enough, then we go nowhere.
Those that partake in a system of corruption are just as bad as the villains that make the laws. remember that “just following orders” is not a way to get vindicated.
First, I would like to thank LTC Baldwin for writing this and SSD for posting this. What troubles me the most when I see all of the vitriol and rhetoric being posted against Fed LE, the Intel community, and to a much lesser extent, the military, is how much common ground exists between members of those organizations and those that profess to be anti-government.
I have erased four long paragraphs at my disdain for how the symbolism, writings, and ideas of our Founding Fathers have been hijacked by a small minority on the right that choses the question the love and devotion many of us have for God, Country, and Constitution.
We have enough enemies, foreign and domestic, to fight. Let’s not lose sight of what’s important and continue to seek out the common ground among us. After all, if we didn’t have at least some similar interests, we probably wouldn’t be reading SSD.
the same people who say all cops are corrupt pig because of the actions of a few are as bad as the people who say all gun owners are murderers because of mass shooters
I enjoyed the original posting and his optimism. I was drawn in by the title, but shortly realized that the author was speaking more generally. It gave me some true reflection that was desperatly needed. I also appreciate his service- thank you sir.
Having been a police officer for nearly 20 yrs and admittedly “somewhat” educated; I have yet to receive any information during an investigation regarding the NSA’s tracking of cell phone communications. Nor has the Attorney General asked me to assist him in violating my neighbors rights. So, I don’t see the connection by the foil hat wearers about how my coworkers and Nato are coming to take their guns. So to say that my daily, and somewhat dull routine, has anything to do with the government overreach is quite a stretch.
As far as the continuation of the “militarization of police”- this term pains me. It is a canned phrase that sells papers. Most of my friends that share my profession are or were veterans of our most recent conflicts. They will and should remain soldiers and heros forever. Their training and experiences bring immeasurable positive benifits go their roles as Police Sgts, detectives, Swat ofcrs etc. I do not believe they can “de-militarize” their memories or training, even if they chose to. So, do we exclude those vets because they may bring “militarization” to a paramilitary environment?. Should the police never progress in weaponry or equipment? I do believe some would suggest that the police should only need revolvers and shotguns- since they’ve worked for decades. Until its your son or daughter in danger, then no expense should be spared on police equipment. Like it or not, law enforcement and the military are infinitly linked. There is a time and place for the use of the latest advances and 1033 items- perhaps that should be the part of a logical discussion.
Unfortunately, times have changed. Police in the 80s and 90s thought very little of schools getting shot up, hatchet attacks in broad daylight, assasinations in their cruisers, and threats by ISIS to specifically target them. Active shooter, terrorism are common terms now used. I don’t like it one bit- but its the reality. Properly equiping and training officers to combat these threats has to occur. The suggestion that police should wear body cameras during these difficult times makes me sad.
I’ll make one last comment regarding “protecting our own” and the “union-phobia”. Most officers will not speak out publicly- on anything. Even the acts of a corrupt ofcr and the like. Mainly due to their tendencies to stay out of the public spotlight- we rarely picket or demonstrate. Usually because we’re always working extra, shoveling, tending our children etc. We have little extra time to take part in a “million officer march” on DC. Another reason for not expressing our distain for police overreach- is that we can’t. Rules and Regs, Policies and Procedures, SOPs prohibit discussions of internal or investigative matters without approval. Its a great way to get unemployed real quick. By the time we can comment, the story has spun so far out of control- no comment can sway opinions.
I agree with the comment above about “signing up” if you have an issue. But who is signing up? Who would want this job? The pay, benifits, hours, gratitude- are melting away. Ask yourself those questions. I have and do almost daily, because I DO know that some child needs saving during a school shooting or they just need their cat out of a tree.
-“If not me, then who”
If the police want to operate like the military they need to be tried by military tribunal then. No more civilian court bullshit your ass is gonna be tried under the UCMJ. Absolute shenanigans that you equate just serving with being a hero. Saying an oath and collecting a paycheck des not a hero make.
matty,
Nor does it make you some kind of a villain.
I’m assuming you are being sarcastic about somehow merging the military and law enforcement…even just for disciplinary action.
Posse Comitatus was and is a good thing. It codified a clear division of labor and separation of power between the Title 10 military and law enforcement. I’d like to keep it that way.
As far as “militarization” goes. I think it is worth discussing but has been largely overhyped. An Armored police vehicle may be a re-missioned surplus MRAP. But it is still not a “tank” even if that’s what the overly excited TV reporter calls it.
A police officer with an AR15 and modern protective equipment is still not a soldier and doesn’t perform a soldier’s function.
We don’t say that civilians are “militarized” just because the AR15 is the most popular rifle on the market.
TLB
I don’t really care about the MRAPs those cost so much to maintain that if police departments want to waste money upkeeping them then whatever. When you see a cop dressed like he’s a CAGDEVGRUMARSOC operator about to take down terry taliban in Afghanistan wearing multicam when you live in an urban enviroment yeah that does bring some questions about. I get it’s just a pattern but as a military member myself seeing someone wearing what we wear overseas is absurd. That doesn’t make you safer when you kick in the wrong door at 3 in the morning. You and your buddies bought Crye Precision stuff because cool guys wear that.
matty,
For obvious reasons I always called them “tommy Taliban”.
For decades police wore woodland BDUs. There was a time when black or really dark blue was in fashion. Now most wear more modern camouflage patterns or solid colors.
I just don’t remember it ever being an issue until fairly recently. Cosmetic features aside, the modern protective gear I was referring to was helmets and body armor.
Most police department don’t have big R&D or test budgets so they naturally look to what larger departments (NYPD, LAPD) or the military has tested and approved.
Then they presumably buy the best they can afford on their budget. Nothing wrong with that.
As I understand it, that is also true for Fire Fighting equipment. So a firefighter in the Air Force probably is kitted out in much the same way as a firefighter on a major commercial airport.
Of course no one has issues with that. But the principle is the same. Same reason that police have started to carry trauma kits similar to military issue. Why should they have to reinvent a wheel that works?
I know that sidesteps your core issue of botched police raids. That is something that needs more attention. I just don’t think police kit (new fangled or old school) contributes to that problem one way or the other.
TLB
Matty, I lived in Hampton Roads, and I can’t help but to think that you typify the arrogant mid 20’s douche bag twat who runs around in uniform out in town, never done shit in your career, but wants everyone to know you’re an operator as fuck American hero. A lot of them around that area. Soldier on with your armchair warrior comments. Then when your bitch ass gets robbed by some ghetto gangbangers in downtown Norfolk, the cops will scoop your sorry ass off the street and drive you back to your ship. Put on your blue digi camo tommorow and puff that chest out high speed.
LTC, sorry for degrading this post to expletives and slander. Just felt the need to release on Matty. On that note, I’m out.
Hahahahahah! You make me laugh dude. I don’t tell people about shit I don’t talk about shit because I’m not a cop. Go shine your head and jack off while you wear some multicam. Fuck you.
And your true colors come out at last.
What colors would those be Jack? I never personally insulted the guy. If he wants to make shit personal we can definitely do that. So please enunciate your feelings about my colors.
….and it’s at about this point that it’s gone from hilarious to annoying and I slide the window on the partition shut and turn up the radio….
It’s about this time that I go back to making fun of fat cops like you probably are. You probably shave your head like you’re some fresh out of bootcamp fuck face. Shut your cock holster and go back to beating your wife.
^^^^this 110%
body armor is body armor. should the police be shot up because the armor readily available on the open market looks too “militiaristic”
Or should they spend 500k on an armored vehicle, or get a used similar vehicle through a DoD program.
Now I agree some take this too far, but when you get down to it, armor is for protection.
As far as rifles go, the Col. put it best, “we don’t say that civilians are “militarized” just becasue the AR15 is the most popular rifle on the market.”
where I worked a great deal of my career, I was by myself frequently, my nearest cover/assistance was often times 20 minutes away (or more), and everyone (to include bad guys) had access to rifles. So does me having a rifle make me “militaristic” or is it me just evening up the odds? that said, I don’t necissarily think a rifle should be deployed 100% of the time, but the option to do so is important.
The problem with surveillance is that it is not a problem until it becomes one. Meaning, in a historical context, that information is at the mercy of a regime or group of people should they use it to their maximum advantage. It might not be 5 years from now or even 10, but the fact that they are given that power is most disturbing to me.
“oh its okay, that wont ever happen in america”. LOL. it already has. Just as J edgar hoover. And to say it wont happen again is worthless optimism.
The story that was broken about the DEA special operations division should be rather alarming, as is their numerous cases of abuse of citizens and bending the law to their advantages (and breaking laws).
Damn the tin foil nutjobs, but they were right: we are being spied on. Not only by government but also private interests. And anybody that doesn’t see a potential for abuse there is being willfully ignorant.
So I have no issue with what you said scott. and I agree with it. But you brought up surveillance and government and thought that should be addressed.
im just here for the comments from wacko conspiracy theorist and very pro law enforcement ( but just to put my hat in the ring for a second i am pro good cop but i am anti bad cop)
I think something that is lost on those of matty’s persuasion is that police officers don’t want the dirty cops working just as much as the public doesn’t. The very small minority of these cops make like infinitely more difficult for the ones that follow the law.
*life
Maybe they don’t want bad cops on the job, but we’d never know. They are all too silent about their dirtbags.
Thank you for the well thought out and articulate letter. I think that sometimes everyone from both ends of the spectrum and everyone in between needs to be reminded that things aren’t always as bad as they seem.
That being said, I would like to make a couple of observations. I firmly believe that police should be held to a higher standard. When you are the face of the government, wether you like it or not , you need to always be at your best. The average joe doesn’t get to use the excuse that he’s only human or had a bad day or was fighting with the wife to justify their actions when the police become involved and police shouldn’t get to use that excuse for improper or illegal behavior on their part.
LTC, Amen Sir! Ironically the reasons you cite in your very astute post, are exactly why I stopped regularly visiting this site and a couple like it, over a year ago. I only check in periodically out of curiousity, to see if the status quo has changed. I was pleasantly surprised this time around, to read your outstanding write up. Keep your powder dry Sir.
Well said sir.
Hands down the best article I’ve ever read. Thank you
And another thing. Go take and hump your own “sheep dog”. Last time I checked, sheep dogs herd flocks of sheep, not hunt wolves (there are “wolf hounds” that do that). Outside and separate from whatever military or appointed position any of us may temporarily hold, we each have a higher title and role, and that is Citizen of a Republic. Citizens have rights, certain priviliges, and responsibilites.
“Citizens” are NOT “sheep” to be herded by any species of “sheep dog”.
I take great exception and am revulsed by the recent trend of some law ENFORCEMENT officers to infantilize the non-police population as hapless “sheep” who are to be herded by a noble caste of heroic, much-put-upon, and disrepected “sheep dogs”. This “sheep dog” thing, at it’s worst, unmasks a strain of separatism/wanna-be-elitism, a mindset of bullying authoritarianism, and self-justification for any and every police action and potential abuse. It is essentially an attitude of contempt for the individualistic foundation of our Republic. YMMV.
Abn,
I agree that Citizens are not sheep. Some police probably do allow themselves to think that way. As Tank mentioned above it is easy to slip into an “us vs them” mentality. Police have to be mindful – and reminded – to avoid that trap.
But I believe that most police officers intend the analogy to mean they are acting as vigilant Sentinels guarding against threats and protecting the larger community. In that case no disrespect is intentionally meant.
For what it is worth, I always like to put responsibilities before rights and privileges because it reminds everyone that there is no free lunch and that citizenship cannot be secured by the passive.
TLB
I’d like to apologize to you for taking your well written letter in the wrong light. I was drinking while commenting and while no excuse I regret some of the comments I made.
matty,
Thank you for that apology. I know you didn’t have to do it and I appreciate it. I’ve said things or made comments that I wish I could have retracted immediately on more than one occasion. Drunk and sober.
For some reason it isn’t macho enough just to disagree with someone anymore. You have to show that you hold the other side in contempt.
It isn’t enough to dislike their position. You have to hate them and try to vilify them personally…demonize them. It need not be that way.
But I guess that makes it easier to disregard rather than refute whatever facts your opponent may have mustered to support his argument.
And, while your presentation was flawed, you were trying to defend a valid point of view regarding police accountability. Don’t forget that either.
Sometimes we outrun our own headlights on subjects we feel strongly about. But it is best for all concerned to try not to personalize these arguments.
I look forward to seeing you do better next time.
And Tank that goes for you too.
TLB
….and it’s about this time that the guy’s sobered up enough to realize that his wife, who has to post his bail, is far more of a threat than I am and that he isn’t really going to kick my ass, she’s going to kick his, and that there was video running in the car, booking room and drunk tank the entire time, and decides to apologize for barfing on my shoes….while the jail trustees are hosing all the philosophy he literally spouted out of the back of the patrol car. Extra Febreeze, please.
Go fuck your own face Bill seriously.
I always hated that sheep/sheepdog analogy myself, for similar reasons, but understand that it was coined by a retired military officer.
Yep, David Grossman. He’s a real interesting cat.
SSD,
I didn’t know that.
I was in the same company with 2LT Dave Grossman back in 79-80 at Ft Lewis. He was quite the dick then. As you might guess I’m still not a fan.
TLB
I’m not a fan either but LE loves that guy.
Not all of us, but as I was discussing with a coworker, at this time saying anything critical about him gets you banished to the corner, especially if you are in the training unit.
I’ve always wondered what the general consensus in the military was about him, and S.L.A. Marshall.
The average guy in the military has never heard of him nor SLA Marshall.
I find this to be a good rebuttal. http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo9/no2/16-engen-eng.asp
balais,
Thanks for this link.
I’ve already admitted I don’t like the guy on a personal level. Even as a junior officer he was all about promoting himself.
I have also always believed his theories were bunk and junk pseudo-science at its worst. Those theories were a regrettable fad in the military for a time but I didn’t know about the LE connection.
It is not impossible but it is highly unlikely that Grossman could have developed some special insight that “changes our understanding of warfare” when he himself had never been near a war.
TLB
I am a cop, who doesn’t like me here?
Well, I for one find your public service admirable and your willingness to discuss it even more so.
Joe,
What SSD said. Thanks for joining the discussion.
TLB
Be honorable and we wont have quarrel.
That’s all I ever ask for, cut the temperature here is it is not about what I do, or what I can control. Terms like “they” “you guys” “all cops” etc so not let me prove who I am, what I do, or how I handle myself. I am automatically grouped in with others who I’ve never met, worked with, etc. But I am grouped in with them and am belittled die nothing other than choosing a career. So how can the 99.9% of good cops defend ourselves? We can’t without being labeled as covering up for that less that 1% that is so far beyond our control. What I am saying is, like everything in life, why can’t I be judged for me?
Does anyone else find this comment string ironic in the context of the colonels essay?
Seems like he proved his points.
Or, he doesn’t seem to comprehend that the police have worked hard to earn their reputation.
On any given day you can go online and find a story of police misconduct. It’s happening, everyday, all across the country.
I often hear that all Muslims support terror because they don’t speak out against terrorism. I’ll put the same thing on cops. If they don’t speak out against bad cops, they are just as guilty. The general lack of interest in justice is appalling.
Police, here’s your chance, tell us how much you are for the rule of law and everything you do to put bad cops behind bars. Tell us how much you do to hold your own accountable. The silence is deafening. I don’t seem to recall seeing any police for justice groups forming.
Clean your own houses and then you’ll be in a position to complain about the people you work for. Until then, you all are a bunch of hypocrites.
LTC Baldwin is delusional. For one, it is patently false, juvenile, and dangerous to assume that just because someone is in LE, the military, or the intelligence services, that they are patriots and have the best interest of the Constitution, the law, and the American People in mind. In the Marine Corps, we referred to this internal enemy as the 10% – that out of any population, there was 10% that shouldn’t be there, were working against the interest of the unit, and were in fact dangerous to the survival of the institution as a whole. It is my contention that we are, infact, be governed by a criminal that fits this description, and that if you serve this criminal in a law Enforcement capacity, you are in violation of your oath to protect the Constitution and are therefore an enemy of the Republic, being subservient to a criminal, and illegal dictatorship.
LTC Baldwin cites the internet and “conspiracy theory’s” as though there aren’t verifiable and provable examples of CRIMES being perpetrated against the American People, the Rule of Law, and the Constitution- the Constitution LTC Baldwin is sworn to protect “from all enemies foreign and domestic” and which I don’t think he fully understand’s comprises more than just freedom of speech. He then goes on to question the patriotism of those who would have doubts about the sincerity of anyone who works for the Federal Government. Technically, as it apply’s to the law, a “conspiracy” is not some farfetched unsupportable scheme, devised by lunatics and madmen, as it is so often referred to as today; but one or more people CONSPIRING to commit a crime. An example of this, would be the IRS using its police powers to illegally target Conservatives, religious groups, and Tea Party organization before the 2012 election, and then covering up and obstructing justice. That would be a conspiracy that would lead to the American People, rightfully, questioning the motives and intentions of their government. Another would be Operation Fast and Furious, where thousands of military grade rifles were allowed to fall into the hands of Mexican Cartel death squads, without supervision or knowledge of the guns whereabouts at the time of transfer across the border into Mexico. Operation Fast and Furious led to the death of Border Agent Brian Terry, a former Marine, and was the product of the Phoenix office of the DOJ, and the BATFE ( the same BATFE that is illegally banning M855 ball ammunition for civilian sale under the Firearms Owner’s Protection Act of 1985, that is only allowed to restrict ammunition that is both pistol ammunition, and armor piercing [being comprised of certain declared metals such as steel or cadmium] of which 5.56mm M855 ball is neither). Operation Fast and Furious led to Attorney General Eric Holder to become the first Attorney General in the history of the United States to be found in contempt of Congress for lying and obstruction a congressional investigation. Many believe that Fast and Furious was a scheme concocted out of the Obama White House designed to have cause to crack down on American’s 2nd Amendment rights by providing known killers with American weapons. That would be “Conspiracy to traffic in firearms and aid criminal organizations” and, possibly, accessory to murder.
We live in a time where violations of the law and of the Constitution by the Obama regime have become common place to the point where nearly everyday there is another violation. Just this last week Obama’s BATFE illegally showed its desire to ban M855 ammunition, and regulate the internet as 1930s utilities so as to be able to restrict information as would a Communist dictatorship, in say Cube, China, or the former Soviet Union would. Patriotic American’s are rightfully angry and concerned, having seen over the last six years the level to which their Federal Government has come to look like a third world dictatorship.
I am sure that LTC Baldwin will refute my assertions and criticisms of his positions with tired old platitudes, that I’m a racist, right-wing extremist, and that I’m unpatriotic, enlisted scum, with only two combat deployments to the Middle East, for not coming to attention, and saying “Aye, sir” before goose-stepping off while my Country is led off to dictatorship, and my People to slavery under tyranny. But I know damn well what is happening, I took an oath to try and stop it, and I damn well intend to do so, or die trying.
If you think I’m some crackpot, paranoid, lunatic, holed up in Montana or Waco, Texas; then you should start paying attention to former Army Lieutenant General Jerry Boykin, a former member of Delta Force and Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence.
El Terryble,
There you are! I’ve been waiting for you. What took you so long?
I’m not going to attack your character.
I’m not even going to respond to your litany of issues beyond what I have already said.
I’m satisfied to just let your words speak for themselves.
Please, by all means continue.
TLB
You know where I stand and what I believe. I believe that my Country is under threat and under assault from within. I have more than ample evidence to back up my assertions. The question is “Where do you stand?” And, “what are law enforcement officers and patriotic American’s throughout America and the Federal Government going todo when they are forced to choose sides?” Because, that day is coming soon.
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”- Marcus Tullius Cicero
There’s no “if” about it, I think you’re some crackpot, paranoid, lunatic, holed up in Montana or Waco, Texas.
Why do all the crackpot paranoid lunatics cite stuff that happened in 1992 and 93? Why don’t they ever talk about the Oklahoma City or Atlanta Olympic bombings or the Bruder Schweigen robberies and murders? Or that crew in Michigan who was planning on killing a cop or two, then attacking the funerals? That was just a couple years ago, and a good example of how crackpot paranoid lunatics LOVE to talk about what they are going to do, even if it’s to undercover FBI agents wired up like, well, the NSA. Or last year, when that kid sniped the two troopers in PA during shift change? Huh? Huh?
“Why do all the crackpot paranoid lunatics cite stuff that happened in 1992 and 93?”
Oklahoma city, being the despicable act that it was, is a perfect example of blowback. With heinous injustices like the Randy Weaver debacle, or the botched incompetence from waco, it is no surprise that someone determined would be compelled to do something terrible as retribution.
Its not only crackpots talking about it. And the utter asinine justifications that the aforentioned individuals did to kill police officers does, in no way, vindicate the likes of Lon and those that made the decisions that led to the escalation of north idaho and waco.
You bring up those examples? Ill raise you many more http://www.cato.org/raidmap
or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas
I’m REAL familiar with the Cato Institute, and if you want to cite them and Wikipedia as rigorously validated sources of data, we’re done here.
El Terryble,
Cicero. A Roman who died before Christ was born. I’ve heard of him. He did have a way with his words. I don’t recall him being known as an advocate for representative democracy. But maybe he was.
I do think that is the oldest quotation that I have ever seen on SSD. Bravo for that.
You seem very eager for that “day to come” when we can all chose sides and start killing each other. Because that is what you are talking about. Civil War. You may recall that we have been there and done that. And it wasn’t pretty.
But on the “positive” side, then you think you will be free to start rounding up or eliminating everyone that doesn’t agree with you. Meting out your brand of swift “justice”. No pesky courts or lawyers or civil liberties necessary.
Will you put them in concentration camps and torture them until they convert to your way of thinking? Or just behead them as apostates to your strict version of sharia liberty?
I’m sure you are taking copious notes from ISIL. Those boys sure know how to take care of anybody and everybody that disagrees with them.
Let me ask you something. Are you doing or have you every done anything constructive to try to fix the problems that you see…short of open warfare?
I suspect the answer is no. But I won’t leave you in suspense. Based only on your comments, if that day comes, I can say with considerable certainty that I will not be on your side.
Moreover, I promise to keep working to make sure that day never comes. And the Nation never suffers the social collapse and abject failure you seem oh so ready for.
Did that adequately answer your question?
TLB
He looses points for not quoting Juvenal (?); “Who guards the guardians?”
El T’s a tough act to follow, but a little light reading while he’s waiting for the End of Days can be found under Publications, concerning to deaths related to arrests. Sorry, I’m a numbers guy, cause you can’t identify a problem, or even tell if it exists, let alone try to fix it, until you have some empirical, reliable data to work from.
Arrest-Related Deaths Program Assessment: Technical Report,
Arrest-Related Deaths Program: Data Quality Profile
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Topics/Topic.aspx?TopicID=158
And before somebody whines that the feds aren’t included, one reason might be that they don’t kill many people at all. Some of the federal agencies with the highest rates of assaults against their officers, thus most likely to use force, are ones like the National Park Service and US Forest Service, where they actually “patrol” and do “police work.” You don’t see FBI agents responding to domestics or checking out broken down cars that happen to be used by homegrown terrorists like Tim McVeigh.
Is there going to be a beer summit after all this?
I think shit just got real.