Theres nothing like being thrown into a room full of crazies and keeping your bearing. You’re my hero because there’s no way I could have done it without hurting some feelings.
Hearts and Minds…
Tags: Jade Helm 15
Theres nothing like being thrown into a room full of crazies and keeping your bearing. You’re my hero because there’s no way I could have done it without hurting some feelings.
Hearts and Minds…
Tags: Jade Helm 15
I’m abit confused.
http://m.statesman.com/news/news/local-military/bastrop-critics-on-armys-jade-helm-training-come-a/nk4Yr/
He basically went through a murder board of tin foil hatters
Ahhh these Texans ain’t seen shit. I’ve been living in the occupied territory of the Piedmont for the past 4 years. Viva la Pineland!
On a more serious note, it’s times like these that I have to remind myself that I took an oath to defend a constitution. If it were to defend a way of life that continued to perpetuate ignorance, sheer stupidity, laziness, and government handouts, I’d have tossed in the towel a while back. (By the way DOD, there’s a significant piece of the answer to why your troop morale is in the shitter. You can save your $300 million next time.)
It’s been going on in East Texas since at least 2012 on a monthly basis as part of JRTC. Same type of exercise, same everything.
Now I want to buy this man a keg myself.
And it seems that the entire US Special Forces community (if not the entire US Armed Forces) now have to go through Pineland and convince the populace they are on their side.
Shame common sense no longer is as common as firearms.
SSD, thanks for posting this. My hat’s off to Mark Listoria. A true professional. I’m glad the people of that community got to meet him.
As you know, we also have to do this kind of community notification and outreach on a smaller scale for each Robin Sage iteration in North Carolina.
Fortunately in that case, most of the locals affected are already fully familiar with the intent and purpose of the exercise. We also don’t usually have anyone stirring up conspiracy fears at the local or National level.
We did routinely put some people’s land “off limits” to the exercise if they objected to the training for any reason. Usually having to do with protecting their crops or livestock – not concerns over “Martial Law”. But even that wasn’t very common.
I certainly don’t mind people being concerned or voicing their concerns in a reasonable manner. For the most part, that seemed to be what happened in this case. Even if I know from personal experience that their anxieties are wildly overblown to put it mildly.
I just wish that after this exercise is over and none of their fears are realized that these people would take a deep breath and re-evaluate and maybe readjust their fear levels down a notch or three. Not going to happen I know. But I can hope.
TLB
I believe his name is actually Lastoria. SSD changed it but I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the press.
Excerpts from the link to the article posted.
Lastoria was told that he couldn’t be trusted and was asked whether Jade Helm 15 will involve bringing foreign fighters from the Islamic State to Texas, whether U.S. troops will confiscate Texans’ guns and whether the Army intends to implement martial law through the exercise. (The answer for all three was no.)
“It’s the same thing that happened in Nazi Germany. You get the people used to the troops on the street, the appearance of uniformed troops and the militarization of the police,” said Bob Wells, a Bastrop resident, after the meeting. “They’re gathering intelligence. That’s what they’re doing. And they’re moving logistics in place for martial law. That’s my feeling. Now I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. I hope I’m a ‘conspiracy theorist.’”
My brain hurts just from reading this article, this kind of stupidity is spreading like wildfire in my generation. Stupid people post stupid shit on social media and other stupid people believe what they said. The internet has given a very loud voice to idiots, and it’s unfortunate that other people believe what they said. This is the kind of shit that makes me not want to live here anymore.
And you know when their dire predictions don’t come true (foreign fighters, gun confiscation, martial law, etc.) they won’t admit being wrong. They will claim victory over the evil gubment! “Our voices and the way we exposed their plan changed everything!!” Then, they will move on to the next insanity…probably TSA and FEMA coming to round you up for the concentration camps.
Love your country, fear your government. If anyone should be able to appreciate that it should be guys within SOF. Remember, the military regardless of individual character, is an extensive of a government that doesn’t exactly have the cleanest record in policy as of late. Just my 2 cents.
If anyone thinks Jade Helm is anything other than a training exercise for SOF in order to develop their skillsets for use OUTSIDE of the US you are an absolute moron.
Somehow robin sage has been going on since 1974 and not a single instance of martial law or gun confiscation has occurred in or around the Uwharrie.
Rick
Rick, agreed. You know that, I know that. The American people at large are relatively in the dark on much of our military. We are the most insulated force in our nation’s history. We shouldn’t be so presumptuous as to assume the common citizen knows about our general training, intent or methods. I know there’s a lot of dingbats out there with their conspiracies, but I’ll take that over a passive and complacent flick of sheeple any day.
Brian,
I would agree with most of your points. Informed citizens taking an active role in supervising their government is absolutely much better then a population that is passive and not participating.
On the other hand, uniformed or misinformed or overly paranoid people do little more then add unnecessary drama to the process. Despite their enthusiasm, what they are not providing is much “value added” to the cause of liberty.
If you love this country and believe in our Constitutional form of government you do your part to exercise vigilant oversight of the government – not out of fear – but because it is your sacred duty.
I would also suggest that an informed citizen has been and always will be the ultimate “kryptonite” to tyranny. That means we have to individually sift through the conflicting information we receive and discern and disregard the misinformation and disinformation. Some people just aren’t doing a very good job of that.
We the people are still the masters of our own fate and future.
TLB
All that, and vote, in every election.
Yup. And I would add that “every election” doesn’t mean just once every four years in November for president. Local, judicial, midterms, all have an effect… arguably, they have a greater cumulative effect than presidential elections… but sadly, my experience is a “no waiting in line” experience at every election except presidential, or a “sexy” contentious election with a scandal or recall vote…
Especially local elections. They’re how wingnuts get “credibility” to escalate to higher offices.
Ah yes because who could possibly think that the US would ever try to get friendly with Iran and let them have nukes or have members of a terrorist organization get invited to the White House. It’s such cookery to think that the US President would bow to various kings and dictators and basically side with Hamas against Israel. Or how about sending weapons to Al-Qaeda cells in Syria so they could be handed over to ISIS? That could never happen right? Or what about the US letting Christians be slaughtered worldwide and doing nothing or ignoring cries for help from US diplomatic personnel while they are attacked and killed at our own embassy? That’s just tin foil hattery and conspiracy theories. Crazy stuff like letting weapons be taken to Mexico by straw purchasers so that drug cartels would eventually kill US law enforcement personnel with them. Letting illegals flood over our southern borders and then just allowing them citizenship. Or letting terrorists we have in custody back onto the battlefield to kill our own soldiers. What goofiness to think that would ever happen. Uh huh. Sounds crazy till it happens.
It’s not “tin foil hattery and conspiracy theories,” you’re just wrong and have no idea what you’re actually talking about.
Extrapolating tin foil hattery sounds crazy too…until it happens.
Aye guy, we all know it happened, but thats not what is happening here. The military is running a training exercise that they have been running. You act like we don’t know the government fucks up, or that it’s only one administration that has majorly fucked things up. Every administration has fucked up, but thats not what this is about. This is about a bunch of people much like yourself who have this severe distrust fir the government, when most of the things you have listed off have affected you life in no way shape or form. I hate this country but there is no where else I would rather be. Living here just means I’ll occasionally have to deal with people such as yourself.
http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/3oe3ue
I feel sorry for all the Texas State Guard guys who will be dealing with monitoring Jade Helm becausee the Internet freaked out.
They are volunteers with no service commitment. They could easily head this off at the pass with a simple no.
I’m in Texas and in the Texas NG, this situation is quite funny. The lunacy that is running around is funnier than peopleofwalmart.com. The majority of the folks here are “it’s just training” but then other folks are just freaking out. I’ve heard a few people just plain getting pissed, saying “there come for guns, land and I will fight of the military”. Ignorance is such bliss with these folks that they actually think the gov’t is out to get them. We’ve had quite a bit of above normal air operations, C130’s, Chinooks and Apaches flying around the area (north of Dallas) and the tinfoil hat wearers are just freaking saying that they are “coming”.
But what is amazing is that when we roll out of the armory for a drill weekend no one thinks any different. There was a fair going next to our armory this drill and some civilians wandered past and the only reaction we got was “you guys have a lot of guns here don’t you”.
I am actually hoping to see some one in the few months wearing a tinfoil hat out!
People have reason to question things like this. The government hides and obfuscates so much, that there is no real way to trust what they say. You don’t have to listen to Alex Jones to believe that. You and I know that training like this is invaluable, no really good way to do a SF exercise of this size anywhere else but a table top. Just have to understand that people aren’t gonna trust what they see as an overstepping, spying, lying, and oligarchic government, nor should they. I know a lot of guys see it as stupidity, as being anti-military in some way, but that attitude leads to more distrust. Don’t get mad, remember who you work for, people have every right to question what you do and why you do it. If you can’t answer a simple question about the intent of an exercise without calling someone stupid or a tin hatter, you are the one with a problem.
No, they are being misled by those who make a living at it. Amazingly, the same crowd who can call Al Sharpton a race baiter and in it for the money can’t seem to recognize that Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are Sharpton’s right wing equivalents.
No disagreement there. What I am saying is that, misled or not, they have the right to question it. By getting angry, calling people names, you play right into their hands. Just like you tend to see them protesting and questioning something you see as a vital part of what you do (who you are) , they see the anger as validation of their fears. Again, like it or not, people have reason and right to distrust. You can further that distrust, or you can be as open and welcoming of the questions as you can and show them you are to be trusted. Remember ,to most people, hidden equals evil ( if you have done nothing wrong ,you have nothing to hide……), and good lives in the open. We know that is not true, but it is part of a base group think. You can use it or fight it…..
But the people in this story aren’t really questioning… they are showing up with preconcieved notions that they pretty much admit they are not willing to revisit or examine critically, hence the “you’re with THEM, THEY lie, therefore YOU lie.”
And that LTC was doing his part to “be as open and welcoming of the questionns…to show them you are to be trusted.”
Personally, I call them “tinfoil hats” b/c no amount of evidence will ever be enough, and they in fact somehow “double backflip” all the information into PROOF of the conspiracy…
They have to be educated to understand what is going on, but where do you find a non-biased, trustworthy entity to do the educating in this day and age. I applaud LTC Latoria for making the attempt, but the us-versus-them mentality is so ingrained in the culture right now that any attempt at telling people the truth is going to run up against a very solid wall. Right now the country is so eat up with bias and mistrust that it’s not unreasonable for people to react the way they have and to firmly hold onto their beliefs. Enough lies and un-truths have been told that most people can’t tell the difference between fiction and reality.
I find what’s been going on in this country for the last 14 years very frightening.
Brett,
It’s been going on longer than that. The widespread availability of internet and social media in the last 14 + years has given more humans more instant access to more information than in all of human history. That is a good thing
Unfortunately those same wonderful tools have also accelerated and amplified the dissemination of misinformation and disinformation.
Which in turn breeds distrust, hate, paranoia and a new form of ignorance. Ignorance not based on a lack of valid information but rather an abundance of bad information.
I think of it as a sort of mental obesity. Your mind becomes flabby and sickly not from a lack of food (information) but because of an abundance of unhealthy food. And like overeating, gorging on conspiracy fodder is clearly bad for you.
Still, too many people have chosen to view every event in the world through “conspiracy goggles”. And then seem unwilling or unable to recognize those cynical lenses give them a distorted perspective of reality…not true reality.
The real hardcore conspiracy fans eventually have the conspiracy lenses surgically implanted and can no longer differential reality from their fantasy world. Those are the truly sad souls.
To actually take a principled and reasoned stand against tyranny we all need clarity or vision and a honest view of the world around us…and a willingness to make the effort.
The responsibility is ours as individuals. If someone can’t tell the difference between fiction and reality, truth or lies, they need to try harder or get help.
TLB
Fair enough, but it’s not the committed that you are talking to, it is the fence sitter. When you act like that ,they are just more convinced and it pulls people who lean that way towards them. When you are open and unperturbed it gives them less credibility and moves the fence sitters away from them.
would GW Bush please get on the TV and quell the tin foil hatters…
I’m just an “untrained civilian goofball” If I may borrow that title. I have never been Military/LEO. I have nothing but respect for those who have served and are serving now. I think your missing something here. “We the People” do not trust our government anymore. Why you might ask? Well, they have lied to us, targeted us, they are actively looking for bigger and better ways to control us and rob us of our liberty. Do we need any more reasons When I say “They” you know who I mean. The Marxist politicians that hate the Constitution of the United States of America, they hate the idea of liberty and most of all hate the idea that we may be able to fight back if need be. Why wouldn’t we want to know what is going on? Don’t we have the right to questions why there will be military personnel on our streets and in our neighborhoods? There will always be mad foil hatters but that doesn’t make all of us mad, does it? Why did our founding fathers see the need for an armed citizenry? To keep the government in line! They understood that you don’t have to be royalty to become a king. I’m sad to hear that these men had to bear the brunt of the distrust and anger that some of us feel towards those in power but we have just cause to distrust and ask questions. Above all don’t let them turn us against each other. I will dismount my soap box now.
So you believe that Jade Helm is a cover for martial law?
“Well, they have lied to us, targeted us, they are actively looking for bigger and better ways to control us and rob us of our liberty.”
Please explain exactly what liberty you have been robbed of? I’ll wait…
In my life time I have witnessed;
A Disrespect for the Separation of Powers,
Executive Branch Over reach,
Laws that are signed without reading them,
Lets do that one again…. A sitting Senator Pelosi actually held a press conference where she told the room of reports that a law was going to need to be passed before we could know what was it the law. And no one ran up and smacker her off the podium.
So, so many Laws ignored by Washington I can’t count them anymore,
Then there is the dishonesty and corruption out of Washington.
No, no we don’t negotiate with terrorist, the Bergdal case was… oh well …. that was negotiation….
But don’t worry, I sure things will get better. It not like we have sitting Secretary of State working sensitive national business over a private, essentially unsecured personal server.
It’s not like the IRS is targeting one political party, then unlawfully destroying evidence….. and who went to jail for that discovery…
We have every right to expect that our Government is unprofessional, dishonest and we should not trust them.
Why, because they have shown through many examples, just a few above, that they are not deserving of our trust.
THAT is how we get our “liberty robbed!”
Skip,
I’ll take a swing at responding to a couple of your points.
“A Disrespect for the Separation of Powers”. The duties, responsibilities and powers of the 3 Branches of the Federal Government are NOT separate but actually overlap by design.
That is so that each Branch has sufficient leverage to counterbalance the delegated authorities of the other two. That purposely designed friction between the Branches is vital to provide the functional checks and balance intended by the Founders.
For example: Congress is the specified “Legislative Branch” but the Executive and Judicial have a legitimate Constitutional role in lawmaking and in some cases a veto.
The same is true for Foreign Policy in which the Executive is clearly the designated lead but the other two Branches have the power to affect and even in some cases block Foreign Policy initiatives.
The process may not get the respect you or I might think it deserves, but Public conflict between the Branches is a sign the system is working as designed.
“Executive Branch Over reach”. See above. I’ve heard this one a lot during the last two Administrations. Of course it is a charge that is almost always made by the political party that is not in the White House.
Probably every President since Washington has used his power as Chief Executive of the government or “Executive Action” in a manner or for a purpose that some opponent didn’t agree with.
Many of the those cases have eventually been adjudicated by the Supreme Court to determine if those policy decisions are ultimately “constitutional” or not.
Sometimes the Court finds in favor of the Administration and sometimes they decide against. That too is how our Constitutional system of Government is meant to work.
And I’m not sure how either of those two specific examples “robs” you or I of any of our Liberties. Please explain.
TLB
Thanks for proving the point.
The answer is none. You have personally had none of your liberty robbed.
No I don’t think I’ve been robbed of my personal liberty and I don’t think Jade Helm is a cover for martial law. You missed my point. Just because we ask and some mad foil hatters go too far doesn’t make it wrong to ask in the first place. Should we just watch and never ask what’s going on. I guess you think we should just shrug our shoulders and go back to sleep and completely trust our government. the anger I see here makes me wonder if your commanding officer to you to shoot me an American citizen because of (insert reason) you would do it without asking because asking why is wrong. When the citizen is the bad guy/gal for being alert and diligent about his/her rights something is wrong!!!!
tom,
I don’t think JB is saying that and I know I’m not. Questioning authority is a citizen’s duty and is vital to the health of our Nation.
Conspiracy theater on the other hand is pointless.
So that also means we all have a responsibility as citizens to keep the discussion rational and firmly connected to reality.
The DoD routinely conducts these types of Public meetings in order to provide the public information and respond to legitimate questions from citizens.
However, in this case the meeting in Texas jumped quickly into the absurd and stayed there. I see no reason to encourage that kind of nonsense.
TLB
Terry B,
I agree with you. It seems sometimes only the freaks come out for these meetings. It’s bad for to get your exercise jumping to conclusions.
Keep your head on a swivel!.
To be clear, I am not a tin hat guy. I think these FTE’s are no big thing.
I also agree with everything Terry said. BUT, a reasonable student of history has to admit that Rep or Dem (both are bad IMHO) both have developed into a system where there is no accountability to the law, they dance around the system disrespecting the intentions and the Constitution.
When a sitting Senator can stand on the floor of the Senate and formally state a lie about a presidential candidate to effect the elections, then show no remorse….
When a sitting Senator can stand at a press conference and tell us we are not allowed to read a law before it it passed.
When a President can form a treaty with another government, then pretend its not a treaty, and then tell us we can know the details or read the treaty…..
We have lost our way.
AND THAT VERY MUCH DIRECTLY EFFECT MY, AND ALL OF OUR, LIBERTIES!
Sorry to yell, but we do nothing while our government decays in front of us.
Just because no one is stopping you today from your perceived liberties, does not mean there isn’t a very real loss that just hasn’t punched us in the face yet.
Skip,
I don’t disagree. Certain aspects of our political process have become skewed over time.
Gerrymandering is one example. In the last few decades it has been overused and misused to codify tailored almost “pure” Democratic or Republican districts across every state.
Therefore fewer and fewer candidates ever have to face any real electoral challenge in their districts. IMO that trend needs to be reversed.
Term limits would be great and serious campaign finance reform. We are not well served by having a semi-permanent and self-perpetuating “political class”
I hate the fact that most elected officials spend the majority of their time fund raising or politicking for their next higher office rather than doing the job they were elected to do.
I’m also personally not comfortable with the “money = speech” SCOTUS decision. It seems to me that allows those with the most money to have the loudest voice.
I’m perhaps just a little more optimistic than you are that we the people can fix those issues if and when we decide to make the effort. It is up to us.
TLB
Terry,
Yes, I agree with you.
Churchill said…. if you want an arguement against democracy, have a five minute chat with the average voter.
I guess I am not optimistic anymore.
And many of those who are asking questions about Jade Helm are not optimistic anymore either.
Perhaps that would help people understand the crazies at the meeting in Texas.
Normal, average people who love there country slowly over time become disenfranchised by a thousand Nancy Pelosi’s …. then, crazy stuff that you would never have thought of….. suddenly seems plausible.
50 years ago, could you imagine the Boarder patrol releasing serious felony suspects illegals ROR?
50 years ago, could you imagine one party passing a bill effecting 1/6 of our economy without even reading the bill.
I am just saying, when truly crazy impossible BS like that starts to become the norm.
Is is so crazy to fear the ignoring of passe comitatus…….
I am very sorry to say, I don’t think so.
Apparently some people don’t understand SF doctrine very well.
They should be more worried about the National Guard being called in. The US Army can’t disarm them, the Guard would do that job…
Put that in your self fulfilling prophecy conspiracy pipe and puff on it, that’s right, shit just got real, real dumb…
That was my exact thought this morning. But I know as a TXNG soldier myself, and at least most of the guys in my unit, we would have a hard time following that order because:
a. believing that that order would be actually given
b. actually following that order since it goes against the constitution and the very fundamentals that we are sworn to defend.
The other though that came across my mind this morning, is the confusion about the purpose of the Texas State Guard, I have met a few of them at different levels and they are simply not equipped to do anything but “watch”. Don’t get me wrong these guys do serve a purpose but mostly that is a support mission to the guard and state (provide additional support in the event of natural disasters, help maintain armories when we’re on deployments, occasionally support local law enforcement on search and rescue, etc). I think the general public is a bit confused on the difference between the National Guard and the State Guard.
it’s a said day when Texas falls in line with the tin foil hat wearers and left leaning lib tards.
I would suggest that you consider…..
Well….
That it is a sad day when a growing segment of our population isn’t 100% certain “our guys” would refuse an illegal order.
Personally, I know the the Tin Hat types are wrong. I know that with all my heart 100% that our troops would NEVER hurt our population.
But I have perspective.
Many don’t….
And given the actions of our government over the last decade….. are they really completely without cause?
The military has worked hard to maintain the trust of the American people. There are plenty of things to hold them to account for and let them know you are watching, but this isn’t one of them.
There are plenty of things that hold our Congress, Senate and President “to account for and let them know you are watching.
But that hasn’t stopped them….. and they get put on TV.
I really don’t want to beat a dead horse here, and I actually agree with almost everything that has been said on this chat.
All I want is for everyone here to realize that things have changed, things are different then they once were.
Assurances we once held to be a truism, cannot be counted on as such anymore.
I was in the room for the meeting in Bastrop. To say the LTC handled himself professionally amidst the looney-toons would be a gross understatement. I could not have come close to his poise in any way, even on my best of best days. With that said, it was a damn entertaining meeting.
I guess the citizen should shut up, keep your head down and ask no questions because we not Government/LEO/Military and we could never understand anything or have any reason to ask questions. If the officers were treated in a disrespectful manner then that is wrong but lets not use these morons as a reason to blast everybody that happens to ask questions.
You guys aren’t asking questions, you’re making accusations.
I’m making observations.
When all the evidence is shown of the exercise that is CONTRARY to martial law:
1. Recent similar, if not more potent operations Robin Sage, Roving Sands, and Joint Red Flag from 2005 (12,000 troops) that all occurred during the BUSH administration.
2. The publicly released (worldwide) Request (Not an order) for consent to conduct said Operation Jade Helm in their state which Colorado has denied (oh such tyranny) months ahead of time.
3. The odd idea that 1,200 troops can somehow conduct Martial Law and then also the domino effect of Civil War if such hostilities occur is pretty insane.
4. Sending a highly ranked officer to address this issue personally.
If none of these facts cannot convince people, I fear that the GREEN Berets of Jade Helm (hence the name, just like Robin Sage) will be slaughtered by the very populace they try to protect.
orly,
Relax, there won’t be any slaughter and probably not even anything “dramatic” at all. This is a tempest in a tea pot and I’m sure the actual exercise will be perfectly anticlimactic.
In fact the training exercise will play out and the vast majority of people of Texas will hardly notice it one way or the other.
And the tin foil hat types will move on to the next scary thing. It’s their perpetual hamster wheel of life.
TLB
I’m sorry this comment is a week after the fact, but this video is my reply:
https://youtu.be/1DS2wXSKF5k?t=167
The locals should be reminded that large scale maneuvers had good results before:
http://www.historynet.com/louisiana-maneuvers-1940-41.htm
My father had a photo album of his AAA-Mobile unit including photographs of extricating a truck hauling an artillery piece from genuine axle-deep Louisiana muck in the 1941 exercise.
I’ve been saying that one example for weeks.
1,500 troops are nothing compared to 400,000.