Scalarworks released a video demonstrating the tools, methodology, and testing of the return to zero and zero hold capabilities of the Low Drag Mount, for Aimpoint Micro sights.
Tags: Scalarworks
We reserve the right to refuse advertising to anyone
Entries (RSS)
and Comments (RSS).
Soldier Systems Daily is in no way affiliated with the US Government.
Copyright © Soldier Systems Daily 2008-2021. All Rights Reserved.
I’m not a scientist nor do I have any secondary education, but it seems to me this test is flawed. The shooter is aiming through a control sight that is not being removed and installed after each string of test shots.
The footage at the end of the video seems to show that the test sight has indeed remained on target over the length of the test. However, just because the dot is on the target does not mean that is where the bullet is going to go.
Bullets are not lasers that travel in straight lines. Maybe I missed something in the video. If so, please explain to me how this test is valid.
Control sight is irrelevant. He could have used irons…or nothing. Test sight never changed POI throughout the test. POI does not even have to be POA. As long as POI is consistent throughout the presentation on the test optic, the consistency is proven.
How do they know the POI is the same? They never fired a round while aiming through the test sight.
If I have 2 red dots on a rifle and I use the 1st to show that that specific optic is zeroed to the rifle and I take the 2nd one off, put it back on, then fire a round through the 1st optic that was never removed and say “Yep, the 2nd optic held zero b/c it’s still pointing at the target.” You don’t see a problem with that methodology?
They never showed that the test optic was actually zeroed to the rifle and that it maintained it’s zero to the rifle because they never fired any rounds while using the test optic.
I don’t. The dot is pointed at the same spot on the target before and after removal. The rifle, held in the vice, is pointing at the same spot on the target. Barring divine intervention or magic, there is no reason to believe that the rifle is now unzeroed.
Think of it this way: Hypothetically, you have an IR laser, and you zeroed it at 50 yards with your rifle. The rifle is viced to the table and is not going anywhere. The laser is dead center on the bull. You remove the laser, and then reattach it. It is still pointed directly at the bull. Is your laser unzeroed? If so, why?
We never actually saw if the test optic/mount was in fact zeroed. That’s where my confusion lies. They didn’t show the test optic being used to hit targets at a specified range, demount it, remount it, and continue to hit targets at the same range.
If I slap an optic on a gun and it’s pointing at the target, but I don’t fire any rounds at a target to verify the zero WITH THAT SPECIFIC OPTIC BEING TESTED can I truly say that it returned to zero after being remounted?
The gun never needed to be zeroed to test return to zero capability of the mount. Let’s say you have a precision rifle scope with a mil dot reticle. You slap it on your rifle and it’s not zeroed, the rounds are impacting 0.1 to the left of the crosshair. You remove the scope and put it back on. The rounds still impact 0.1 to the left of the crosshair. Does the mount return to zero?
The relationship between the rifle and the scope are the same. This is what it means, at its core, to have return to zero capability in a mount. I cannot think of any believable way that the gun could become unzeroed while the rifle’s relationship to the optic is the same, barring someone bending the barrel or heating up your ammo.
How do you know that it returned to zero? No rounds were fired using the test optic/mount. Your example has a rifle that fires rounds to determine where the bullet is in relation to an non-zeroed optic. Theirs did not.
They have assumed that because it remained pointed at a target throughout the test that it retained its zero.
Here’s a test for you to do. Look through a zeroed red dot, take off the dot and have someone else move it 5 MOA or less without you knowing which direction. Remount the optic then tell me how much and which direction it moved. It’s very hard to tell if it moved or where.
To be clear, I’m sure this optic mount can retain zero within a few MOA. I’m just questioning the test methodology that the chose to represent their product. A better test would be to mount the test optic/mount on an anchored rifle. Shoot a test group, demount/remount the optic, then fire another test group.
Hi there.
I think you might be confusing Point of Aim (POA) and Point of Impact (POI). As an optic mount manufacturer, the only thing we have control over is Point of Aim: where the red dot or cross-hair is pointed.
Point of Impact is affected by the quality of your ammo, your rifle, and your ability as a shooter. Since those factors are entirely out of our control we eliminated them from the equation.
A lesser mount could have Point of Aim shifted by recoil, or by removing and remounting. The video shows that our mount didn’t shift at all.
The backup optic is utterly irrelevant to the process. It was used merely as a convenience to the shooter in assisting him not to accidentally shoot, and thus disturb, the primary reference target.
Scope being zero’d or not doesn’t really matter. What matters is if there was POI shift after the mount was removed and re-mounted. Even though the optic seems to be in the same spot on the target, one or two clicks of adjustment is extremely hard to see with the naked eye and therefor the optic could “seem” to be pointed at the same spot on the target but really be in a slightly offset spot which would result in an impact shift that would be exponentially worse at greater distances. Your video and “test” shows nothing to me in that I really cannot determine if there is any zero shift with your mount. These optics can and will be mounted on guns for people who will go in to harms way. I find this type of marketing extremely irresponsible.
Thank you for your more concise explanation. I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw a problem with the testing methodology. Like I was trying to explain, they never showed that test optic/mount was zeroed to that weapon. They never fired any rounds using the test optic/mount. Just because it remained on the target does NOT mean it retained zero. It could be off by a few MOA which would get exponentially further off as range increased.
I don’t see why other people can’t understand this.
Just curious, if say a laser was mounted to the Scalar instead of an optic and the target was broken down into a 1/2 Minute grid system would that help in accurately demonstrating a mounts ABSOLUTE return to zero properties to viewers without having the variables you mentioned. I agree with others that the demo appears to show no POA shift but that its very difficult to determine even one MOA of a shift through this type of demo. Though one MOA would be very close, it’s not zero. I do appreciate your product and video and hope to hear more on this subject.
Why even bother? The mounting of a laser would introduce variables in itself… This is not rocket science and the fact people, especially the mount company here, are having so much trouble grasping this is crazy. People have been checking POI shift for decades with different products. When suppressors are manufactured and test fired they check POI shift to make sure they fall within spec. They do not bother zeroing the gun to do it either. They shoot a control group from a rail gun on a bench, then mount the can and shoot another group. Boom, you see your POI shift. With the optic you would need to shoot a group (zero’d or not) remove the optic, then mount it again and shoot another group WITH THAT OPTIC. See if there was ANY shift and that is your answer on if it is repeatable or not.
Re. this mount….meh.
only 1.5 ounces less than a LaRue QD mount.
I suppose it makes the tacticool crowd happy though.
Reasoning behind canting the rifle at a 45 degree angle?