In the wake of last week’s tragic shooting of five service members, there’s a petition running on WhiteHouse.gov to allow Active Duty Military Personnel, Military Retirees, and Veterans with CCW permits to carry on Military Bases. The body text of the petition is as follows:
A Petition to allow Active Duty, Retiree and Veterans that are Concealed Weapons Permit holders, to carry concealed weapons on base. Our men and women in uniform, as well as the Civilians that support them, deserve the to have the right to self protection a much as any other U.S. Citizen. Regulations that prevent our active duty personnel, retirees and veterans the right to self defense are not arcane, but also discriminatory by nature. All citizens are afforded equal protection under the law, that includes the right to self protection no matter the location. Our Military deserves to have the same right to self protection as every other citizen of the United States. We demand the regulations be changed immediately, in order to restore that right and to prevent further loss of life.
The petition still needs quite a bit of support to reach its goal before the August 15th cut-off date.
I’m really surprised this petition hasn’t garnered more attention. It’s something that seems quite necessary, or at least the option to carry being available.
I have been saying this for years.
There is another one on there that has almost 18k signatures if anyone is interested
Let’s not stop with this. Everyone who lives off post report to the arms room after PT formation and sign for your weapon and a basic load of ammo. Turn it all in at the end of the duty day before you leave for home. Everyone who lives on post will just maintain their weapon and basic load in their quarters. Living on the FOB was so great, let’s replicate it here at home.
Or we could just increase the number of taskings for guard duty and post guards at the PX, commissary, library, motorpool, gym, etc. Give the Red Cycle units the responsibility to secure their sectors. Beats handing out towels at the gym.
I’m sure that I’ll take a little heat for this post, so fire away…no pun intended.
Yep, walking around unarmed has worked so well.
Maybe we just have to try to understand them better or as the State Dep’t spokersman implied, it’s all about jobs.
I applaud, but the white house petition system is just a circle jerk for ideas the administration likes.
Where is the logic that military people carrying is wrong? Of course not all trades are the same, but really? As this petition is about those already licensed, wtf? You are trusted with automatic wpns, 300rds+, grenades, etc. but not 46-60rds at home?
A base commander is far more concerned about a ND, lost weapon, or fight turned ugly on base than he is about a terrorist attack.
One he’ll be held responsible for if it happens because of or is enabled by the carry policy, the other he’s not as it’s viewed as a random uncontrollable act.
Remember, CYA is responsible for 80% of Stupid in the Army.
Very true
All Army’s and all government departments everywhere as well as 95% of business’s. But with the military people die due to it, sad.
Bingo
“CYA is responsible for 80% of Stupid in the Army.”
More like 90%, you have to include the self serving, indecisive or those afraid of rocking the boat to choosing CYA as the safest path to achieve their objectives.
Only the SUPREME control freaks make dumb decisions to reassure them of their power.
That base commander’s concern is not without merit.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/19/governors-order-national-guardsmen-to-be-armed-chattanooga-shoot.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=5
“The comments came as Navy officials confirmed a separate incident outside Atlanta, where a recruiter accidently shot himself in the leg with his personal .45-caliber pistol while discussing the Tennessee shootings with one of his recruits. Officials said he showed the sailor the unloaded gun, then reloaded it and inadvertently discharged it as he was putting it back in his holster.”
It comes down to risk managment. An ND, lost weapon, or 2 knuckleheads playing quick draw and getting hurt are LIKELY. We’ve all seen this happen downrange. In the past 10 years there have been…what…something like 4 terrorist attacks targeting DoD faciliities in CONUS? Some of them have been horrific (Fort Hoos, Chattanooga), but these are outlier events. What is the actual risk, once you strip out possibility and stick to probability?
You could make the same argument about so many other topics that have come to light since 9/11. Patriot Act, NSA Listening, TSA ass grabbing, no knocks, etc.
/Sad
This should, key word “should,” change the tide on 2A application for service members in uniform on base/etc.
Will it? Only time will tell.
“Our men and women in uniform, as well as the Civilians that support them, deserve the to have the right to self protection a much as any other U.S. Citizen.”
Then why are not the civilians that support them included in this petition?
“All citizens are afforded equal protection under the law, that includes the right to self protection no matter the location.”
Then why are all citizens not included in this petition?
You bring up a valid point. Unfortunately, we didn’t create the petition so we can’t answer fit the oversight.
that is a good point however…….should everyone on base at major installations be armed? IMO not everyone should be. Select few properly vetted. I believe in constitutional carry. However, deployment zones are different from a garrison enviroment. Civilians are already authorized to carry off post. Why should they carry on post? Unless they have a valid reason, no they shouldn’t be carrying on post. The saying in the military goes, you give them an inch someone will take a mile. Those who haven’t served now there are knuckle heads that shouldn’t be carryin anything but a stick.
Why should civilians not carry on post? Your reasoning stinks of anti. Wouldn’t self defense count as a valid reason?
Do they work as DOD civilians on post? If not NO THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CARRY. This post is for military members in general. Lets not get my message misconstrued AJAX. Not everyone on base needs to be armed for various reasons. At least with someone with a CAC ID card or MIL ID Card they can be identified BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN ID CARD. Civilian with no ID card with a POW on post during an ACTIVE SHOOTER SCENARIO how do you identify friend from foe? Should MP’s/LEO’s/Armed Military personal need to spend time taking a civilians word with no identification or ties with the military? NO THEY SHOULD NOT. Hence why I say NO CIVILIANS WITH NO TIES TO DOD should NOT CARRY ON BASE.
You’re forgetting that some times military members commit crimes. You’re forgetting that civilians are in charge of the military. You’re forgetting that it is not just a constitutional right but a basic human right to defend oneself against heinous criminals. The right to carry is not only for members of our military but for each citizen who has an obligation, a responsibility, to care for and protect themselves and their loved ones from injury. This is our duty as free men. A right and responsibility to show the aggressors and criminals of this world that we will not go down without a fight. This is our duty as citizens.
Chuck no, I’m not forgetting that military members commit crimes. Once again do not miscontrue what I am saying. Everyone has the right to defend themselves. However civilians coming on to base with no business or attachment to DOD shouldn’t be allowed to carry on base. Everyone is saying constitutional right, what you do not understand is the military in general falls under the UCMJ which 100% of civilians that do not work for DOD do NOT fall under. Once again provide a valid argument for why civilian that has no place of business on a military installation should carry on base.
I retired from the military, and still work on an installation. I drive 60 miles, round-trip every day unarmed. It would be nice that those of us, CCW qualified, would be also authorized to carry along with any military that are authorized.
Yes, I’m sending this from my work computer….
Okie, I agree that’s why I said if you work for DOD yes. If you have nothing to do with DOD and have no place of business on base daily. No.
Except for Hasan these terrorists are “civilians”.
So if a jihadist shows up at the gate with legally procured firearms he gets to wave at the gate guard as he drives to the largest group of troops available.
Why would a civilian want to keep the military community from protecting itself if they weren’t included?
I have never understood the reasoning and logic, such as this…
We train and train individuals to shoot and kill our enemies. We send them to far away places with deadly and destructive weapons. To kill them there before they come here.
Yet, when stateside, God forbid we allow them anywhere near a gun!! Can’t trust them….even though they fight, bleed and die for that very right of freedom, to carry a weapon. For us and them. Just fricken stupid.
Oh and while I am on a rant….I am so pissed off that the Empire State Building was lit up in honor of some Islamic holiday just days after this horrible islamic terror attack on American military bases and personal.
Why not lite it up in red, white and blue in honor of those fallen? Hell the white house was lit up by the asshat we have there to celebrate gay marriage but on the 4th we get nothing. On this tragedy we get nothing….this asshat can’t even call it islamic terrorism, what a unpatriotic American hating asshole.
Sorry for my rabbit trail, not sorry for calling him an asshole.
Concur 100%!
Signed.
This is our fault. We failed those Marines And that Sailor. It’s our fault, make no mistake. We as citizens let their rights be taken away. We’ve done a terrible disservice, and I hope we can somehow make it right. I’m so sorry to the families of our greatest citizens. We let you down.
We’ve failed many more than those Marines and Sailor.
It’s getting a lot of visibility now but the problem has festered for a long time over the bodies of a lot of service members.
Signed! Screw the PC Base Commanders.
*SIGNED*
Not to open up and old wound but look what happened in Ft. Hood.
The “average” civilian who has no contact or general knowledge of the US military thinks that being on post, base, camp (whatever you want to call it) is the safest place on Earth. This is why in those zombie apocalypse movies or TV shows, people always run to the military base because they think its safe (joking).
Though seriously anyone who has been “in” knows that a military base is not the safest place to be. Shit happens everyday. There are only so many MPs and private security guards to go around to even protect your “average” E-1 through E-4 from themselves on a weekend. In the military we do what we can to “police our own”.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” – 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution.
That should be the weapons policy on-base, off-base, on Federal property, on private property, for the people, regardless of military status, no government issued license or permit required.
Support and defend the Constitution.
It ain’t gonna happen.
We fought the battle here in IL after a isis related incident and even proposed that M-Day reservists who are LEO on the outside of Military should be allowed to carry in their weapons inside the armories. Nope. Sure the leadership said that they will “look into it” and that it’s being “debated” but I have been around long enough that once the topic dies down this will be put back on the back burner until it happens again. No I’m majorly talking about NG and Army Reserve armories which don’t have a gate guard and are pretty vurnable, especially those in rural areas.
I find it confusing that while deployed we’re entrusted to kill the enemy and win hearts and minds while “spreading the democracy” but on the stateside we’re not. Perfect example was flight home from Manas, sorry sir I know you’re just coming back from Afghanistan but we just cannot let you bring this body wash on board because it’s over the minimum liquid you can bring on. SMDH.
The petition is a good start, but like many other petition it will be left unanswered and calling /writing your local political leaders will fall on deaf ears. Taking your ccw on base / armory anyway puts you at risk of getting caught and loosing your job / carrier etc..
I don’t see a simple solution to this as there are plethora of things to think about…..
Does anybody know if there was a specific incident way-back-when that led the higher-ups to adopt this policy in the first place?
As a US Marine and someone who spends a considerable amount of time on MCB Camp Pendleton, I can tell you that I dont think arming everyone is a good idea. YES, Marines are trained with weapons and sent off to fight in foreign lands. But a good number of these Marines are in my humble opinion not responsible enough to carry weapons in combat, much less around a domestic base where there are so many civilians.
Between PTSD, alcoholism, domestic disputes/violence and basic immaturity its not going to help the situation and I can completely understand why the base C.O would be against it.
Now, with that said I think these bases should have more in the way of gate security and QRF’s trained specifically for active shooter situations.
Tend to agree with you… I think we’d see far more people accidentally shot on post than are ever killed in targeted attacks.
Is there room for compromise? Maybe only NCOs and officers can carry?
Officers and Staff, maybe? If you can stand OOD, you are probably competent enough to carry a pistol in the same capacity during normal work. There are plenty of people who carry pistols daily (armory custodians, ammo, MPs) who could otherwise be trusted.
If you treat them similar to service pistols, ie, standard protocol of clearing, showing clear, where you can wear them on the body, etc, it would probably work out.
Yeah, not a good idea at all. Probably 80% of base residents are junior enlisted morons who spend most of their spare time drinking themselves to death and stewing in their angst and depression. There would be so many NDs, threats, theft, and other issues that I’m sure local commanders would inhibit or completely disallow it.
The odds of a terrorist attack are considerably lower than a drunk Marine getting pissed off and whipping out a weapon or a dispute in the barracks turning ugly.
I honestly have no idea if barracks in other branches are as violent and chaotic as they are in the Marine Corps, but I really wouldn’t feel comfortable with Marines running around with unchecked weapons, personally. I would love if they would let us take our own handguns and ammunition to the field with us though!
WOW! I cant believe we are having this conversation! Now only military members should have the freedom of the Second Amendment?!?!?!
This should be a non-issue. If the US had universal constitutional carry we would not even have to talk about it, but it is not. A petition for that level of 2A right restoration is probably out there, but is no doubt a bridge too far. This is a very narrowly scoped attempt at restoring rights in a peace meal fashion.
In free states anybody can carry off the base. But nobody can carry inside the fence no matter how 2A friendly the local area surrounding the base is. Therefore, military installations are largely self defense free zones. And the folks who live and work there must go about their business unarmed. This petition would help rectify that problem for the largest segment of the population in said zones.
Just saying anybody with a CCW permit legal outside the fence is cool to carry on base would make life easier. But, it just won’t happen do to the perception of a much wider scope.
Personally I would like to see the petition include veterans, DoD civililians, dependents, and contractors with CAC cards. But that is probably too large a pool of people. Honestly, limiting the pool to just active duty and retirees, as it is currently written, is too big a step with today’s political landscape.
Non-DoD-affiliated civilians generally have to be escorted on base anyway, so I have little concern about them for this particular effort. They also can decide to stay outside the fence and be armed to their heart’s content (in free states anyway).
As for requiring a permit with the state the base is in, it makes sense politically to put that in there. It gives power to the states, and checks the “training” box. You should not need a permit other than the one signed by the Philadelphia Convention in 1788. But, for better or worse many free states still require them.
As with all rights restoration projects, you must remember, an elephant is eaten one bite at a time.
Our guys need to carry.
I remember in the 80’s because of fear of accidents nearly 90 marines and sailors were killed in Lebanon because sentries had unloaded rifles and wer unable to stop a truck bomb. I’m sure that from 1776 until the present less than 90 people had been killed by accidental/negligent discharges. Yes we must avoid these accidents but not by making us vulnerable to attack and thereby less safe.
Our military should be considered responsible enough to carry firearms for their protection stateside if the government orders them to carry firearms elsewhere for our nations protection.
C’mon, poser douches, this one’s worth your effort.
I signed it. (no military service, ashamed to see Marines die unarmed due to BS rules disallowing them from being armed)