Soldiers should begin seeing emails soliciting their input on several proposed uniform changes including female Drill Sergeant headgear and a return of the ‘Ike’ Jacket.
Emails will direct Soldiers to an online survey where they’ll provide feedback on the future of gender-specific headgear for Drill Sergeants. Originally adopted in 1972, the Tan Bush-Style Female Drill Sergeant Hat was transitioned to a Green color in 1983 to better fit in with the Woodland Battle Dress uniform which was beginning to enter service. The Army seeks opinions on whether it should scrap the Female version and adopt the Brown Campaign Hat currently worn by Male Drill Sergeants for use by both. The Campaign Hat is a distinctive design steeped in Army history and it’s not hard to see this change being implemented.
The Army is also considering the development of a gender-neutral Service Cap more commonly referred to as the ‘Bus Driver Cap’. Such a move would take the Female Service Hat out of the inventory. The Male Service Cap features a wide bill, while the Female version has a raised brim on either side. A new common version would resemble the current Male Cap with slight modifications. Concurrently, there is a proposal to make the Service Cap mandatory headgear, rather than the Black beret, with the ASU for senior NCOs and above.
The most popular item on the survey was proposed by Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey after visiting several Posts. Soldiers want to wear Black socks with the new PT uniform. Considering the new uniform’s Black dominant color scheme, this is a no-brainer.
Also suggested by SMA Dailey is something a little more controversial which is an optional wear “Eisenhower jacket” to be added as a more appropriate indoor alternative to the black windbreaker jacket. Although named for President Dwight D. Eisenhower, the waist length jacket actually entered service in the late-1930s. While it is a great heritage item, it isn’t very flattering for some body types. Of course, there’s a Cardigan Sweater, so why not an Ike Jacket?
Concur on all points.
The “Eisenhower jacket” simply looks awkward on anybody who isn’t of a tall and lean build. A lot of people are going to look like they’re wearing Ralph Kramden’s bus driver jacket with their new bus driver hats. The design also doesn’t look very accommodating to breasts for female troops (biological or Bruce Jenner type). The cardigan is, however, even uglier.
I love this comment… I hadn’t considered the appearance of the Ike jacket with the bus driver hat, but the more I think about the 5 Sided Clown College wearing it the funnier the idea is!
If the bus driver hat were to go away completely, I don’t think anyone would shed a tear. The female hats always intrigued me – we wear the same PCs, the same boonies, the same helmets, so why are our drill hats and dress hats different? That never made sense to me. My wife could rant for hours about the female ASUs and how they make no sense, but the hats always stuck out for me.
The black socks are a great idea, however.
Ha! My first thought on the new Ike Jacket was also that it would make the troops look even more like bus drivers too!
Besides that – the original Ike Jacket was inspired by the British Battle-Dress jacket, but I’ve always thought it was a rather sloppy-looking, pale imitation of the BD jacket.
Regarding the campaign hat – change the design to something that’s distinctive to the Army and make it the same for both sexes (the current male version looks too much like the hat used by Marine’s, State Troopers, etc.).
It was used by the Army first and was a standard issue hat.
Campaign hat
I understand the heritage of the campaign hat – but my thinking is that since it has been used by so many others since then, it might be time for a change.
Black Stetsons perhaps? 😉
Take the standard army ACH helmet, apply the campaign hat brim to the helmet. Wait for new recruit to giggle at the Drill Sergeant, sit back and enjoy the show.
Stersons FTW!!!!!
well lets go back to hardee hats while we’re at it …..
I seem to recall the overseas cap having a much more colorful nickname.
Garrison cap isn’t that colorful.
😉
As much as the stetsons sound nice, it’s like the black beret all over again. Taking headgear from one community that’s traditionally worn it and using it for another.
There was a time when everyone in the Army wore that hat.
The Ike jacket would look better with concealed buttons like the original. The cut looks poorly done on this prototype as well.
I have one of the original British battle jackets on which the Ike jacket was based, it tapers from the shoulders to the waist. That prototype jacket does look like it was designed for Jackie Gleason’s build.
While I was in basic, I liked the idea of gender-specific covers for DSgts. Made it easier for me to narrow down who was approaching if I could directly see their face.
As for black socks with PTs, as long as they don’t make white socks out of regs, I don’t care.
No comment on the Ike jacket.
Come on, man. You know that if they go black socks, it’ll be only black socks. Cannot have mismatching PT socks on unit runs!
I used to think that female DIs should wear the same hat as males, but now seeing that side by side picture, I am no longer sure. Perhaps it is best left up to female DIs as they have to wear it and can steward for future female DIs.
Drill Sergeants.
Heck ya on all the suggestions.
The Army should make the Ike Jacket like the WWII version, hidden buttons and the waist belt. The would make the jacket look better on more people and keep it more “historically accurate.”
Maybe this jacket would help people to do more PT so they would look good in it!
Waiter!!!
I’m fine with the changes, not fine with the pictured DS rocking the blue disc campaign hat.
If you don’t think female 11B’s are coming, you are delusional.
That’s fine. But that SSG certainly isn’t one and hasn’t earned that disc
That hat isn’t authorized for wear by females either. Think of it as fiction.
They wont if the army actually cares about winning wars…
1. Black socks with the PT uniform most definitely. For one they will hide stains from wear and tear during PT; plus looks more professional then those sore thumb white socks.
2. Women drills sergeants should wear the campaign hat; should be no diffrence between male or females drill sergeants.
3. I think the black beret should be obsolete from the Army inventory. Looks unprofessional in any uniform. Should go back to traditions.
4. Everyone should wear a service cap when in class A or B’s no berets.
5. The “Ike jacket” should look like the WWII jacket; the current version looks like garabage. Need cuffs with blue buttons. Hidden buttons on jacket. No gold buttons on jacket.
How’s the Beret look unprofessional? I’m guessing you were never taught how to wear one properly.
1. My thoughts too, but I’m also sure it will just lead to privates wearing the same pair of socks all week for PT.
“4. Everyone should wear a service cap when in class A or B’s no berets.”
Except Airborne, Rangers and Special Forces…
I would like to see Airborne troops go back to our traditional headgear the overseas cap with paraglider patch instead of copying a European tradition. We have a rich enough history to stand alone. Sew a silver dollar behind it for tradition’s sake and to serve as an improvised billy club.
The Rangers wore a beret from way back to the French and Indian wars but they europeanized it while still emphasizing their roots with Rogers Rangers. Again US Army Rangers have enough of an illustrious history to be really unique instead of copying European modern traditions.
SF, stay as it is or wear what the 1st Special Service Force wore (again, it’s talked about often enough). SF does have a tenuous link in their initial stand up to European “green” beret clad units.
This.
The Hat, Service, OD (Campaign Hat) worn with blues is ridiculous. I have seen the Marine Corps do it and it is one of the dumbest things ever. It is a service hat, designed to be worn with the service uniform or the field uniform. It looks fine there, as it is where it should be.
The Army airborne paraglider overseas cap was a classy look, especially when worn in the same fashion as it was in WWII. Ike jacket, Yarborough airborne uniform, or class A uniform. It would look pretty silly in the AG 344 shade and BDU – ACU but when we had woolen uniforms and a special airborne uniform it was pretty awesome looking.
A blue Ike jacket with anodized buttons is as wrong as a beret and jump boots with blues or a campaign hat with blues. Or running shoes with mess dress. Hell, why not?
Understand that the idea was to streamline uniforms but some of this just looks like the dog’s breakfast.
Do you mean the garrison aka C*(t cap?
I would like to see that as well.
Many senior leaders in my organization, including myself, do not want to see the black socks. We could have made the PT changes to the current uniform we have except making us all look like a match stick. Now with black socks, you going to have Soldiers after PT not change their socks into their boots lol.
IKE jacket is a no go. If we went back to WWII uniforms instead, I may say yes.
Also, I was told by some today, why didn’t the Army just digitized multicam and I told them that would have went outside the NDAA decisions parameters. But I constantly being told that the new uniform is much better than UCP.
I’m all for the garrison cap; with a caveat.
use the pattern from WWII uniform garrison cap, and not that abomination we wore in the 80’s and 90’s!
Google photos of Dick Winters wearing the garrison cap vs. the disco style garrison cap of the 80’s and 90’s.
Ike Jacket… the pattern shown look dumpy. but with an authorized max body fat for males at 26%, no amount of patterning fabrics is going to make such a body look good.
Eliminate the variable body fat authorization in the DoDI and hold us all to 18% max. At that point you look good wearing just about anything.
Wonder if The Corps has similar issues… or not… and what’s the reason
We just went through this with the Female Dress Blue cover. Considered the “Dan Daly” cover for both male and female, then tossed the idea of gender specificity and eventually allowed females to wear both the male Dress Blue Cover and male Dress Blue Blouse.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/03/commandant-rejects-marine-uniform-changes/16634571/
I wish they would get rid of the green Class A and go back to the WWII Officers “pinks and greens”
They got rid of Green Class ‘A’s a few years ago. Dress Blues for everyone.
Wear out date for the Green Class A’s is this year.
That said, a yes to all except the Ike jacket. It won’t look good on round Soldiers.
The ASU is a poor looking uniform, the worst out of all the services. I was hoping that they were going to follow up on the survey they did at the same time as the one that resulted in the new pts.
The worst? No.
The biggest shortcoming to the ASU is the Army does a horrendous job of teaching Army history, the historical links to blues and how blues have been in service longer than Marine blues.
Then heck, the Army does a terrible job of teaching its history in almost every regard. Our focus has often been on the job at hand and not selling the branch. That’s a strength and a weakness.
Which branch uniform would you consider to be worse than the ASU? I think they are a big step down from the Class A’s, which themselves aren’t as good looking as the earlier tan uniforms, to my eye at least.
I agree. Blues have a long Army heritage. Hell, most Soldiers don’t know why the trousers are light colored than the jacket.
Because they were issued that way. The old story about them fading is a myth.
There are some historians that say the reason for two varied colors in jacket and trou is due to the cost of fabric. Others say it was to differentiate officers from enlisted.
(Well the days of different costing fabrics because of their solid color are L O N G gone so why continue?)
Wait a minute that’s two different answers to one question. Which one is right?
The official Army site says:
Light Blue Trousers
Winter mud on early white wool changed the pantaloons to a more practical gray by 1821, and to sky-blue in 1832. Contrasting with the blue coat, this traditional color scheme avoided the difficult match of coat and trousers worn by generals and staff officers.
So in a manner wearing different color trou do harken to a time of an expanding America. http://www.army.mil/symbols/uniformtraditions2.html
As for fading trou… Have any of those historians ever owned/worn trousers from a dress uniform for any period of time to see if they fade? I have and they do.
Funny, nobody yells BS over the blood stripe on the Marine uniform but there’s tons of criticism about the Army trying to inject some history in its uniform.
(Before any get “offended”, here’s the G2 on the “blood stripe” http://www.usmcmuseum.com/Museum_LoreCorps.asp I don’t think it’s wrong to inject significance in rituals, uniforms or symbols. Some believe every fold of the flag stands for something… Well at least it makes one meditate on what one’s doing and that’s worthwhile.)
The ASU, like the Class A uniform, looks fine when tailored and worn correctly. I always hated the bow time on Army blues, and the ubiquitous plastic name plate, but now the blues are the service uniform, it’s fine, I guess. I don’t have to wear it anymore. 🙂
Army blues do have a long tradition. I just think that mixing up some of the other service uniform practices with it looks off…
What other service uniform practices?
Agree on the bow tie.
FWIW, I think some of the resistance to Blues is the lack of knowledge that the Army has had them for centuries. I used to go to a lot of black tie affairs in the 90’s in NYC. I was almost always asked what service uniform I was wearing, sometimes repeatedly the same night.
I agree with everyone here, the Ike should be made to look more like the original and/or the British Battle Jacket, the prototype shown looks very meh at best, if not downright awful. However, even if redisgned, it will probably look pretty odd (at best) with the service cap, if they adopt it the Army needs to go back to issuing out the overseas cap/garrison cover to go with the jacket or authorize the wearing of the beret to go with it, the service cap/barracks cover is just going to make soldiers look like bus drivers or the Maytag man.
I don’t understand. Why does the service cap make soldiers look like bus drivers but doesn’t have the same negative connotations for Marines?
When Marines wear white service caps I don’t think ice cream man or the green version doesn’t speak of bus drivers or old school delivery men.
Does the Old Guard look like a bunch of bus drivers guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier? (They’ve NEVER worn berets while serving in that capacity.)
Seems there’s something else underlying here. The Army gets some pretty unique criticism when it does things other branches have done without criticism e.g. Mk318/M855A1, M4/M27, M32/XM25 body armor for “smaller Marines/female soldiers etc. Looks like a trend.
Not saying you are party to the double standard of criticism. Far from it. You’ve always seemed pretty level headed. The trend though is irrefutable.
The term goes way back to before either of us joined the service. It’s like the old Overseas Cap being referred to as resembling a lady’s anatomy. It’s just something Soldiers do.
I was just referring to the wearing of the service cap with the proposed Ike jacket and not the service jacket in general. Personally, I like the barracks/service cover sbetter than the garrison/piss covers, the stupid overseas cap/piss cover never felt right on my head, it always felt like it would fall off if you didn’t sand perfectly ram rod straight and it would blow off if you walked too fast or if a decent breeze came along. The barracks cover may not be the most comfortable thing and a pain to have with you indoors but at least it stayed on your head.
RB – “I was just referring to the wearing of the service cap with the proposed Ike jacket” Ah! Concur, crappy look.
SSD – Yes, I know the term is older than both of us. I was trying to communicate the “bus driver” look allegations about certain Army uniforms and it not shared with others. Seems I failed.
It’s like the “Good Humor Ice Cream” allegations of the Army Class B look. Have these guys never seen other branches that use white in their uniforms (shirt, jacket and trou sometimes)?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not promoting ridiculing other branches uniforms. I’m pointing out people complain much more about Army events/issues etc. (see list above) than the other branches. Don’t know if that’s because the branch is the most egalitarian or has the most detractors. It’s an interesting phenomena.
It would be nice if they had a uniform they could be proud of.
If we adopt the Ike Jacket can we also readopt Pinks and Greens?
Ike Jacket is coming. Coming soon! think OCP Pyrad that’s a tactical Ike, not a “Dinning In” jacket.
Agreed on GarrisonOverseas Cap- Blue with Gold Trim. Would look much better than the bus driver cap..unless we went back to the old crusher cap.
IMHO, anything is an improvement over the current Class B…I’ll take the Ike Jacket-warts and all.
No more uniform changes till I retire please, unless you want to get rid of all hats, allow me to put my hands in my pockets and un-blouse my boots.
I’m for anything that gets rid of the beret. Ike Jacket looks sharp. I don’t care if it hurts the feelings of the fat bodies. I’m ambivalent about the socks. Don’t really care about female headgear either.
1. Female Drill Sergeants: should be an appropriately scaled-down version of of the male Campaign Hat (or optional wear of the male full-sized version, for ladies with large craniums, as is allowed with insignia of grade shoulder boards for wide-shoulders). I think (not sure) that USMC does this now.
2. Service cap. I hate wearing it, but keep it. Looks formal and appropriate, on those rare occasions it is worn. The beret doesn’t make the cut – just find a group photo of the Joints Chiefs, the Chief of Staff of the Army in a beret ends up looking out of place next to his Navy, AF, and Marine peers wearing traditional Class A headgear.
3. Black PT socks? No, does not pass the common sense test: A. White athletic socks are an inexpensive commodity item in any store, or any other service PX. Why add to the logistics tail? B. Also, nothing wrong with letting leaders which troop might have a laundry/hygiene aversion. C. And finally, the flutter of little white socks might just be the decisive safety factor to keep from getting run over at pre-dawn PT. Bad enough wearing black in the dark!
4. Ike Jacket would be great, IF pared with a change of mindset/culture/policy to allow/encourage/require concealed carry by E-6 and above, plus certain others.
That Ike Jacket looks really, really, bad. And don’t forget, the “pinks and greens” was an officer only uniform in WW II. I have no interest in looking like my grandfather. Leave that uniform to the old vets and the reenactors.
And don’t forget why we wet away from the service cap in the first place, its a bitch to travel with. Where do you put it when in a car, plane, etc. That’s why the Army in WW I went from the campaign hat to the overseas cap. I’ve worn the service cap exactly one time since 1985 and that was for a funeral at Arlington.
The black socks are fine and so is the campaign hat for female drills.
Its funny how many hate the black beret, but the green, maroon, and tan berets are sacred. The beret for daily wear was a bad idea but its fine for the dress uniforms. I enjoyed my time wearing the maroon beret but truth be told I prefer the good old patrol cap for daily wear.
We have now changed all three uniforms, dress, PT, and combat (ASU, IPFU & OCP.) Enough already! How about we focus on training again.
Just bring back Khakis already
Khakis for garrison/office
Pinks and Greens for the former Class A’s
Keep the Dress Blues
Drop the black beret for all
Rangers are tan, I don’t think one of them would want to piss on a black beret after what happened
Glad that the Army is addressing these concerns while we are cutting 40K personnel in the midst of numerous continuing and emerging threats. Way to go Washington.
The first uniform improvement would be to get the female(s) out of uniform !
What about Maroon berets for SFC and above? Do we still wear those?
Asking because I just passed my Airborne physical today and want to keep wearing that beret…
You want an adequate uniform change? look at the US Army dress uniform during WW2. They shouldve never changed away from that or the brown combat boots either.
The ASUs look terrible. The bus driver’s cap with a ike jacket? What in the fuck are people thinking?
ASUs are a vast improvement over the greens, which were essentially an ugly green suit with a bunch of flair pinned to it. I do like the WWII uniforms though.
I’m glad I got out before all this Uniform nonsense, the new Blues look horrid, the old Blues we had in the old class As days was sharp, this is just pathetic and the Bus Driver coat is just another step in the wrong direction
Want a good class A? Forget the blues. Jack boots with ping gray riding pants, officers have black strips on the pants. The jacket would be OD green with a tan shirt and black tie. Nice, but a dream. The current class A and Bs need changes such as all officers with dark blue pants
Have you ever seen the color olive drab in person? Dear God I swear it looks the color of fiecies. Maybe that’s why the Army was called the brown jobs during WW2. On yea, that was the reason! Soldiers wanted to throw out the olive drabe uniforms after WW2. Believe it or not olive drab Ike’s were despised from what the US Army historical record surveys show. They tried dressing them up with gold buttons and trim. Didn’t do much. I don’t see why we would make the same mistake again by bringing them back. In the 1940’s and 1950’s surveys showed that troops wanted a service uniform in blue. But settled with green while the blues became optional wear for enlisted required uniforms for Officers in 1960. The WW2 Ike were a pain, you had to keep pulling the jacket down after you got up. The blue Ike jacket looks a lot like the mess blue uniform. But he’ll why should Soldiers look fancy in blues.
If anything should change on the ASU is that a cloth belt should be added around the waist similar to the Pinks and Greens design and Marine greens. Service caps issued. Give Soldiers a Khaki shirt and dark blue trousers for daily wear if needed. Then again I don’t see the reason to have a service uniform unless you wear it in the Pentagon. We no longer need a service uniform for travel or everyday garrison duty. A dress uniform is the only thing that should be issued. Special events like Army balls, ceremonies, graduations, weddings, funerals, pay day activities and military holidays are the only time to get spiffed up. If it was up to me we would bring back the 1902 Army Blue Uniform. It was somewhat similar to the 1872 model blue uniform the Army wore back in the day(what Marine Enlisted blue uniforms are based off of). There was never a sharper uniform. But he’ll why should I do research on uniform history of the US Army uniforms?
I like khakis, tans and Pinks and Green jacket design. But the Army should just keep its colors in blue. It’s in our history and in our blood. Leave it be.