Recently the Marine Corps announced some big changes to their physical readiness program. There are some sweeping changes to the standards for the Physical Fitness Test (PFT), Combat Fitness Test (CFT) and the to the Body Composition Program (BCP). After reading the new order, I saw some things in there that I think are good and some things that aren’t so good. I won’t comment here on every detail, if you’re interested you can read it all for yourself at: USMC Fitness.
Over my 28 years on active duty, I heard a lot of complaining about the PFT and how it didn’t measure basic fitness (BS) and listened to even more whining about the Hgt/Wgt standards being too strict (more BS). However to try and improve things the Marine Corps added body fat % measurements to take in account different body types, and a few years back the CFT came out in an attempt to better evaluate “Combat” Fitness vs. just Physical fitness. IMO any “Combat” test that doesn’t include a timed forced march with full gear isn’t a real test of combat fitness, but that’s another story.
The real story here is the (under the radar) overall lowering of standards in the new order. I’m sure the Marine Corps would push back hard on that one, but if you read the details (like I’m prone to do), you find a very reveling statement in the Marine Times article on this by Brian McGuire, deputy of fitness branch for TECOM’s standards division. When asked why even have the addition of a new push-up vs. pull-ups option? McGuire said it was because the Marine Corps didn’t “want to create a manpower problem by having some female Marines failing.” If that isn’t a lowering of standards to allow you to keep people in that can’t meet a standard, I don’t know what is? I knew when they started talking about a pull-up requirement for female Marines, something like this was coming. IMO you were never going to be able to enforce a minimum pull-up standard for females. Those of us that were in the ranks knew it wouldn’t work. But since the order came out to open all combat MOS’s to females, you had to now come up with a way to make easier for them to get there. So here you go.
The other bad part of this is, that once you lower a standard for one group (females), to be fair you have to lower it for the guys, who can now also opt out of pull-ups, for the much easier push-ups. Now to be fair, they have put in an incentive that you can’t gain a max score unless you choose pull-ups, but that’s on the high end. The more important part of any test is what the minimum standard is, as not many people will ever achieve the max score, never did and never will.
It just may be the old Master Gunny in me, but my thoughts on this are simple; to maintain a superior fighting force you need high physical fitness standards, that’s high minimum standards. If you do some fancy adjustments to make things look better, but in the end you make it easier for those on the lower end to pass, it’s just a lowering of standards, to me it’s just that simple.
Recently I took a class of International Students up to MCB Quantico, VA for a tour of the base and several of the training units there. TBS, OCS, SNCOA and the Martial Arts Center. My students were impressed by everything they saw, (Especially the Marines themselves). As were leaving the Martial Arts Center there was some discussion about fitness standards and one (older) student made a remark that he didn’t think that it was fair that we would expect older Marines to maintain a high fitness standard, as they wouldn’t be able to do it? As we were passing a set of pull-up bars, I felt I needed to make a point about standards.
I took off my suit coat and challenged the group to a pull-up contest right there (in the 90 degree heat). When it what was over, the score was; old Marine in the tie – 18, next best student; Nigeria – 16. The point was this, either you can do it, or you can’t. If you can’t, then you don’t make the team and age or gender isn’t an excuse, sorry.
This week I’m off to climb some mountains on some well earned leave. Till next month, be safe always, good when you can.
Semper Fi
MGunz
Tags: Corps Strength
If you’re too old or your gender requires an easier PFT/CFT, you shouldn’t be a Marine.
Exactly…but this decision has nothing to do with combat effectiveness or what’s best for the Corps and America’s national security, but with the political motive to turn America into a sissy nation, unable to defend itself. And that means emasculating the US Military, especially the Marine Corps because the Corps is America’s shock troops. What better way to neuter America’s shock troops than to put females in infantry and frontline combat units.
If you’re too old or your gender requires an easier PFT/CFT, you shouldn’t be in the Military
Fixed it for you
So, nobody has been able to articulate how opening everything to females has, or will, make the military “better”.
Looking at the new standards it has only made it worse. I was appalled as a young poolee to find out one only needed to do three pull ups to pass. A greater shock was seeing young men not able to do a single pull up. I thought they’d get their shit together by bootcamp. Nope, Pork Chop Platoon for them. Then the real kicker, once in the fleet, they were done, instead of maintaining and improving, most reverted and became even lazier.
Not to change the subject, but I think that this still misses the point: A pullup is still a body-weight basis of assessment, and as such, an utter irrelevancy to anything other than gauging someone’s overall physical capability.
Signally, it does not address the real question of whether or not the individual doing the body-weight based test is actually strong enough to do the job, or possesses the stamina to do so.
Sure, those women Marines might be doing a male-equivalent number of pullups or pushups, but… Given the differences in body size, weight distribution and all the other factors going into our sexually dimorphic physical factors, are we even beginning to get a picture of whether or not that woman can do the damn job? Or, for that matter, if her physically slight male counterpart can do the same thing as his more imposing peers?
None of these bodyweight events are even getting at what should be the core questions: What can that person do, against the real world standards of their job? We shouldn’t even be discussing this crap, to be honest: Instead, we ought to be figuring out specifically, down to the weight and number of repetitions, what our military personnel need to be able to do for their jobs. Want to be in the infantry? Fine, you need to be able to military press X kg Y times in Z amount of time; further, you need to be able to pick up and move X kg and carry it Y meters in Z time. These are realistic measures that are purely objective; if you happen to have a slot instead of a tab in between your legs, and can meet the standards? So be it–You can have the job.
This bullshit where we’re saying a skinny little chick who weighs under 100lbs is more “fit” than her male peer who weighs 180, but who can’t do as many pushups or run as fast is what we need to do away with. Sure, the test tells us about how fit that person is, but a 90lb flyweight still can’t hump a 120lb ruck very well, while the less “fit” and bigger guy probably can. There’s “fit”, and then there is “fit for purpose”, and we’re not paying enough attention to the latter standard.
Being a big, lanky guy I truly understand what you are saying. A tall 200 lb guy may be moving twice as much weight through twice as much distance as a smaller framed person,doing 4x the actual work. Making it a odd combination of a subjective objective test. Shouldn’t there still be minimum standards on these though, maybe a go/no-no on those and then actually grade on the the more objective tests like shuttle runs, ammo box carries, balance beam, o-course? I don’t know the answer there. But I see the problem.
All I know is that not only do I need to keep running sub-18minute 3milers until I’m 40 but now I need to do 3 more damn pull ups.
That was a great read, always look forward to the Corps Strength and Gunfighter articles.
So I guess now my question is, I’m a fairly skinny guy that weighs about 60kg but I ruck about 40kg every 3 days per week yet I am barely able to complete 10 pull ups. What is it I have to do to increase that number?
Improve your strength, not your endurance for one. They’re two different things.
You may actually be catabolizing muscle by rucking that much, I’m sure Gunny could speak to that much better than I.
First off, you’re rucking to much. rucking is awesome, however from I learned while in the Army its best to not over do it. I ruck a 50lb, 8mi in 2 hours.. once a month.. I just use a good old large frame alice with some old school TT shoulder straps…
I weight 150lbs, about 6 months ago on pull up (chin up) number 17 I was at muscle failure. I now can get to muscle failure at 35 ish. twice a week I do pull up sets mixed in with my other work outs. one set is mixed into chest/back day and consists of 3 sets of 35 reps. the other is with my fully armored (plates/IIIA) PC, I do 3 sets of chin ups, pull ups, commandos..15 reps..then 12.. then 10.. I dunno, im not the most in shape MF there is by any means.. but it works, I know for a fact that I can pull my fucking ass plus a full load of combat kit up a ladder or over a fence..thats what matters..
Do more pull ups.
Thanks guys I’ll take it all on board
Good write up Marine.
Lowering our standards is not the answer.
Lowering the standards was the end result of the Obama military social experiment. Lowering the standards is the only solution to the all MOS female conundrum.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of bullshit that’s been getting pushed through over the last couple years. I’ve been in for almost 13 years, and it just isnt worth putting the additional stress on my wife and son when I deploy, or even go to the field for a couple weeks. Can’t wait to EAS in a few months, my shit filter’s full.
I guess the israeli army an army of “sissies” then?
lmao what are you all twelve years old and afraid of getting cooties letting girls in the club house? embarassing
I’m not in the military, but I have worked with ours and theirs a fair bit. The Israelis are not sissies by any means, but there is a huge difference in our country and theirs, our country’s ops and theirs, as well as our effectiveness, and theirs.
To clarify what I wrote, I think our country has the more effective military. As to the rest, if I’m wrong, I’m happy to be corrected and learn.
You clearly don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. However, your opinion is shared by perhaps half of the country and nearly all of the melodramatic English majors who type day and night pushing silly liberal agitprop at the behest of a salon class who just can’t understand how mankind can be so primitive and violent as to actually go to war. I won’t waste much time trying to sway you before you retreat to your patchouli-scented echo chamber, but think of your kids/grandkids perhaps and ask yourself what sort of infantry/specops team you want keeping them safe when the chinese amphib/airborne forces are here and the flowers-in-rifle-barrels “Jane Fonda Maginot” strategy has failed. “What now?!!” your ilk will demand of the editorial pamphleteers who in peacetime seem so prescient and trendy. Women have many important military roles but not in the teeth of the infantry specops fight which, purely and simply is (as horrid, unbelievable and unnecessary as this must seem over espresso and the NYT opinion blogs) men killing other men and most often IME at less than 100m in the most fatiguing and physically stressful conditions you can imagine. I would only ask that you look beyond the childish comparisons/analogies, metaphors and various justifications/entitlements and try to grasp what folks who have been there know is needed to win a fight. If not, stick to your vive les femmes fantasy and enjoy it while you can.
lmao are you even capable of recognizing your own insane fantaticism and group think. You reduce everyone who isn’t you into some phantom enemy stereotype group. Like talking to religious nuts, or rather like being talked at by religious nuts lol
“the chinese amphib/airborne forces are here” lmao. oh I know, america, the most heavily armed country in the world, has so and so’s grandpa to think for killing dudes in some far off country, so that we didn’t have to grow up speaking some other language while some other country went about the impossible and strategically pointless task of invading and occupying the american land mass while everyone just stood around with their thumbs up their ass waiting for chinese lessons to start.
it’s exhausting even listening to you insane people because you just repeat tired ass old conservative man cliches that don’t hold up to two seconds of examination.
And there we go, Old- Conservative -Man. Why not go ahead and add White in there. Fucking Libs.
dude, why the fuck do you even look at this site and read its articles.. fuck off… no one cares about your absolutely unfounded and idiotic opinions.. those of us who have been there and done this shit don’t give a fuck what you think about it…
If you actually served and saw the drama and BS with female servicemembers you would understand where we come from. However, you’re a brainwashed leftist cuck, insulting men that unlike you actually have a pair, that actually BTDT and know what we’re taking about. Fuckers like you are why America has become pathetic.
Do your own research, the Israeli Army does not allow females in combat MOSs.
LOL, good job man, you get the award for the silliest post of the thread. Congrats.
ya rgr
I’ve lived in Israel.No way do they allow their women in combat arms to fight.In fact they pull them out.It still is one of the most chauvinistic countries I’ve ever lived in.
I just left the Aussie army and was laughed at for even bringing it up with them.The women there thought I was crazy for even suggesting it.
Women do border police roles and such on the ground.
As one women said ‘Without us there is no State of Israel why should we be killed”
McGuire said it was because the Marine Corps didn’t “want to create a manpower problem by having some female Marines failing.”
I read that as there will be a quota for females in the combat arms MOS’s.
I’m going to start my own Marine Corps, that is Semper Fidelis to the Constitution, with lenient polices on ROE, hazing, tattoos, and visiting the wrath of God on America’s enemies. Because, killing people that deserve it is fun, particularly for red-blooded American males that haven’t been brainwashed into thinking they’re girls by neo-bolshevik, Commie scum seeking to “fundamentally transform” America into a third world country.