This is an actual exchange between a company we’ve written about several times and a representative of an overseas-based contract sew house. For some, this industry is about doing the right thing, for others it’s just a pay check. The names were blurred to protect identities.
Chinese are gonna Chinese.
It ain’t limited to the Chinese. It happens everywhere, unfortunately. The only difference I’ve found is that the Chinese don’t seem to think it’s wrong to copy. The other folks I’ve confronted just deny it; “I came up with that design by myself…” (even if it’s a direct copy).
Cultural imperialists.
There’s a body of literature out there on imitation and Chinese history. The crux is essentially that Confucian thought has historically valorized copying of virtuous or good things.
This was a key tenet of Chinese philosophy and only began hitting protest in the past decade or two. Up until this point, it was very culturally acceptable for one person to see a product or practice say “Oh, that’s a good idea” and start doing it yourself.
As Chinese culture becomes more globalized this’ll start changing. There is already very much a counter-cultural movement among Chinese wealthy adn well-reared elites in regards to lifestyle, fashion and other consumer products and this tends to have a trickle down effect onto other industries. You’re already seeing a contraction in the fake watch and purse industries.
Which is absolutely fine and dandy, legally, and morally in the western mind, if they get the blessing of the original designer to copy the design. And said original designer is fully justified in compensation and an assurance of minimum standards in the copies. Perhaps a market split/non-compete clause, too, pending anti-collusion stuff.
This is a rather pointless exercise, except maybe it made the person who did it feel good about himself ( MM? ).
Have you checked the following?
1. Eagle Industries A-III vs LBT 1467A
2. Camelbak HAWG vs LBT 2595D
3. Eagle Industries MMAC vs LBT 6094
There are countless others, in this and industries such as garment, fashion, shoes, and etc.
You might want to talk to a lawyer specialized in intellectual property and see what constitutes an intellectual property rights infringement.
This wasn’t my exchange.
https://www.iprcenter.gov/referral/
boo hoo… its business… it happens; if you do not want your product to be easily copied make it more unique.
If you were the one whose intellectual property was being ripped off and you were not properly compensated for it, you’d be singing a different tune.
It doesn’t mater how unique you make a product. After investing in real R&D, applying expertise, creating a design, producing prototypes, testing and refining, and finally manufacturing a unique product, these criminals simply counterfeit it.
And no, it is not financially practical to seek legal protection in dozens of other countries each with different laws and huge costs.
Manufacturers can only rely on their partners and customers to do the right thing and reject the trade in counterfeit products. The good ones always do.
Counterfeit shops over seas pop up and dissolve too quickly for any realistic legal action.
I own a tech startup in the firearm industry and I have US based companies in my industry (Even in my own damn state) shipping my products overseas to be copied and manufactured under their banner, even going as far as to label them “Made in the USA” despite being manufactured in China. They don’t even care that they are breaking ITAR restrictions by shipping them overseas. My products are extremely high tech and unique, but despite their inability to make a direct copy they will pick aspects of the design and make a terrible quality product off of it.
If you’ve ever been to one of the firearm industry expos there are plenty of distributors willing to stock their shelves with cheap garbage rather than make less margin on quality goods.
The only thing you can do is be honest, provide quality goods, and hope that your distributors and customers see the value in your work.
Copying a vest? Pfffft – that’s Peewee League stuff:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-the-chinese-government-became-the-worlds-hacking-superpower
Resistance is futile.
Unfortunately this shit goes on daily in every product class.
Find them, expose them and humiliate them.
Unfortunately, the bargain hunters form the foundation of this knockoff industry
PS Airsoft is for pussies
It’s MIL-SIM DAMN IT -Mat Best
Buying USA Built gear is more than insuring quality, it gives the buyer an audit trail. What Company, what raw material vendor, the fastener vendor what craftsman / craftswoman and even what machine ,is never in question.
If my Company or that of another USA manufacturer gets a return for a zipper, button or stitch issue, etc,we can immediately drill down to see if it is a systemic fault or a one off. We can contact the QC instantly. There is also the ability to be nimble and offer rapid prototyping with US Companies, I’ve had a Navy EOD NCO take a marker and tape to a current issued item and had him a prototype back in his hands in 48 hours. That’s American Manafacturing. When is the last time you jumped a parachute made in China?
+1
Correct! (slow clap started) That’s how you do it!
Yes.
Ah man…I know which company this is. Not based in China, I can tell you that.
I worked with that company as part of a design project I did for a European firm. Said company was recommended to me by a buddy who had patches made by them, which is the product they’re primarily known for (that buddy went on to regret the recommendation).
Absolutely terrible experience. I was nagged constantly, often multiple times a day, about if I had mailed over a product sample or was going to place an order. I was lied to constantly during the manufacturing process (which took months longer than specified) and the first product batch was unusable due to the company having tried to make their own buckles. (No joke there. They actually sent me a video of some dude sitting on the ground, surrounded by scrap metal, melting the scrap and pouring it into a mold to make one buckle at a time). I was grateful to hear the replacement order was delivered successfully so I could cut ties with them.
For what it’s worth, they’ve been blacklisted among many patchmakers and gearmakers alike.
Why protect the company’s identity? By exposing them, you might help others avoid using people with no morals or ethics without having to figure it out the hard way… They obviously don’t deserve anyone’s business.
For people who haven’t spent a single hour trying to design something, they’ll have no understanding how what being ripped off feels like. The closes thing I can think of is Jody banging your wife…
I second this.
Stop being so self righteous. Why don’t you also complain about U.S. based AWS Inc., who makes a direct clone of the LBT 6094 plate carrier (the main difference is that AWS uses heavier and more durable fabric) for a third of the price? I don’t even think the 6094 is patented. There are many more examples out there.
Is this Lindnerhof-Tactic? They copy almost every successful type of gear of american companies.
Doubt it. Website address looks too short.
Are US producer any better?
If you study US made products, you will find a lot of European designs on them. Most people are not interested in European products, so they don’t see it that fast or easily who got the idea first.
Even slogan the US producers steal from other companies……
The Chinese by culture are copiers. They have no regard for copyrights, trademarks and counterfeiting. People forget that this is still a communist country. The government controls everything. When a US manufacturer opens a factory in China they staff with Chinese. The government watches the success of the company. If successful, they will open an identical setup down the road, pull the now experienced factory workers and proceed to make copies. That is just what they do.
by culture are copiers? please stop before you hurt yourself. i do agree that they are notorious for ripping deisgns but who enabled them to do it all in the first place. who first decided to take an american designed product and create it in china, that seems more lazy on the designers than the creators. if u dont want ur design ripped off, keep it in produced in america. maybe there will be a lesser chance of a direct copy being made.
Apparently you’re unaware of the concept of international shipping.
+1
My favorite “Manufacturer can make everything”
I get emails from these types of companies every week. My favorite is when they want to sell me a copy of my own design.
We submitted this conversation to SSD. Some of these comments are confusing and not what we expected. We aren’t boo hoo’ing. They aren’t copying our products. They are copying others. One being LBT. The conversations was amusing more than anything else. We new there would be no changing their minds but figured it would be useful to see how some of the forgers think. Everyone knows that good gear will be copied sooner or later. They contacted us thinking we would want to carry their products. They didn’t realize that we were a manufacturer ourselves.
It’s too bad that some of these copy cats have major US partners that vouch for them..
I’ve kinda stopped caring about the whole repo airsoft business, but when companies do government contracts and/or have a significant size of business then you can’t go around and rip off peoples work.
Enjoyed your questioning their honor.
Being less than honorable still means something to them.
(Where is Worf when you need him?).
It is pretty god damn sad that people are on here commenting with remarks of apathy and callousness.
The use of hasty generalizations and cherry picking is elemantary.
Nothing to see here moving on…
This isn’t a matter of honor – it is legal or it is not – it is either patented or not. This is the nature of capitalism. Look at vanquest and maxpedition. Many designs of Mystery Ranch have been copied. I don’t see anything wrong with it. It is progress.
It’s all fun and games until someone copies your stuff. But seriously, that’s true, is it protected IP? If it isn’t, and it’s a good idea, someone else is going to use it as well. Morally, some people will be fine with it, and some won’t.
Imitation is the highest compliment. The customer can make the decision to go with an original or knock off. More often than not, you get what you pay for. Claiming credit for the actual R&D and design work is another story.