American Tomahawk

The Press Reminds Us To Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste – Disinformation In The Wake Of Tragedy

Early this week in Las Vegas, a man indiscriminately murdered 59 people and wounded over 500 more, when he used plunging gunfire from a perch overlooking a peaceful country and western festival. It is a tragic and inexplicable loss of life. Some survivors will be maimed for life. The victims and their families will long remain in our thoughts and prayers.

Tragedy strikes. What does the anti-gun agenda do in response? Why start cranking out propaganda, of course. Take for instance this graphic from USA Today, which has a long history of working to strip law-abiding citizens of their civil rights.

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It reminds me of a story we originally published on January 31st, 2010, entitled, “How to REALLY Get a Grenade Launcher”. It seems that when it comes to truth in reporting, at least as it pertains to firearms, nothing has changed.

It is important that you watch the ABC News segment, “How to get a grenade launcher” before you read this so that you will be in the proper frame of reference.

Paul Harvey had it right with his famous tagline, “And now for the rest of the story.”

To begin with I have to say that I still am perplexed as to why they bothered with the story at all. Early last week a Sailor, Absent Without Leave from the Navy was apprehended by the Police while in the possession of two Bushmaster carbines with the serial numbers removed as well as a “grenade launcher” initially believed to be an M-203 but later determined to be a 37mm flare launcher by the ATF. It is my understanding that ABC News was told repeatedly that the item at issue was not a weapon at all but rather a novelty item, a flare gun built to resemble a military issue M203 grenade launcher. ATF does not classify the 37mm flare launcher as a weapon.

I spoke with the segment’s producer Lauren Pearl, and she was very polite but I could tell she was agitated that I had contacted her. Fair enough and I can appreciate that. No one wants to explain why they did things the way that they did and that is precisely what I asked of her. Her initial answer was that there was only one minute to present the data but after pressing her on the issue, she stated, “I don’t know why.”

At the crux of this issue is how the information was presented. After watching the piece I came away with the impression that you could do an internet search, pick up the phone and just buy one of these “killer weapons.” However, after doing some checking, I have found that this is hardly the case.

Ms Pearl did tell me that the information in the piece was correct and she is right. They did seek out the assistance of an expert. The Sportsman Channel’s “Ammunition Expert”, Larry Vickers is well known in the small arms industry and deals with far more than ammunition. In fact, he’s an internationally recognized expert and the host of two TV shows dealing with small arms. Unfortunately, after showing 12 seconds of expert testimony on how difficult it is to purchase a grenade launcher, the segment’s host, David Cuomo essentially refuted Vickers’ assertions by telling us that a vendor selling destructive devices said that “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.”

So, in order to find out if the information presented to me was true, I did exactly the same thing the correspondent did in the segment. I googled “Grenade Launcher” and came up with well over one million hits. Then I googled “Grenade Launcher for sale” and only came up with 181,000 choices. Of those only a few were actually for the sale of real honest-to-goodness grenade launchers. The rest offered airsoft versions or the dreaded 37mm flare launchers that inspired the piece.

M203

After some checking, I was able to ascertain that Mr Cuomo was seeking information on the DD1-152 M203 Grenade launcher offered for sale by Autoweapons.com. What makes this story even more convoluted is that the model that he chose was built specifically to fit on a rare foreign weapon; the AK4 Swedish variant of the HK G3. This makes it even more useless to the casual buyer as one would then need to purchase the proper base weapon to mount the M203 to, in this case an AK4. Naturally, this means more red tape and rules.

And purchasing an actual M-203 40mm grenade launcher is hardly the end of it. To make it a “killer weapon” one would require ammunition. Each round requires exactly the same process to purchase as the launcher itself. That’s right, $200 tax stamp for each individual round, more fingerprints, more background checks, more waiting. This may be why you don’t see neighbors blowing each other up with 40mm grenades. The ATF does a great job of regulating the transfer of these devices. The reality is that they are far from easy to purchase, and you certainly can’t order one over the phone or internet.

If the problem with the segment was that there was only one minute to present the data, then perhaps the answer was to provide more time so that terms like “gun permit” could be adequately explained as an ATF Form 4, payment of a $200 transfer stamp, background check to include fingerprints, and a wait of several months while a national agency check is conducted and the application is processed. And, on top of all of this, you have to be in a state that allows the individual to possess a destructive device like a grenade launcher. Or, maybe if the one minute is not negotiable an alternative would be to perhaps let the expert speak rather than some talking head ask about color options like he is picking out a new scooter. Either one of these options would have resulted in more facts being presented.

In the end, the ABC piece is much ado about nothing. They were informed by experts that there was no story there yet they proceeded anyway. However, I will admit that they did do their research and they did tell us that in order to purchase a grenade launcher “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.” They just failed to explain what that meant leading viewers to the false conclusion that grenade launchers are as simple to purchase as a pair of shoes. They also failed to mention that while most states allow private ownership of destructive devices, neither New York City, where ABC News is located, nor the state of New Jersey where the AWOL Sailor was apprehended do. Too bad they didn’t have more time to more accurately portray the issue.

So what is the verdict? Can individuals run out and purchase grenade launchers? No.

Use of the USA Today graphic and CNN screen capture are covered under fair use and used solely to illustrate their distortion of the facts in order to serve an anti-civil rights agenda.

Update: This screen capture is from a 6 October, 2016 broadcast on CNN. The subject is bumpfire stocks. The rifle depicted is equipped with a grenade launcher and suppressor, but NO bumpfire.

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87 Responses to “The Press Reminds Us To Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste – Disinformation In The Wake Of Tragedy”

  1. Gerard says:

    Thats a great article. Its also depressing to realize how duplicitious the mainstream press can be. They count on the general public not understanding or bothering to research these issues.

    • James says:

      Exactly why no one trusts a word the say/print. We’re first hand witnesses to the steady delegitamization of the State. Gonna go read some VanCreveld and skip the Newsies for a bit

  2. Callmespot says:

    They could have at least omitted the carry handle for a rail plus included ,laser and flashlight. And discuss the merits of Picatinny vs. M-LOK vs. KeyMod. And no rangefinder? They missed the boat…

  3. Jack says:

    For better or worse, the internet allows those that do care too find this stuff out. We are no longer beholden to the talking heads for our information. People who think guns are evil and need to be banned aren’t going to take the time to do their own research. If they do they will stop on an article from huffpost, vox, the trace etc. I understand both sides can be guilty of the same mistake.

    In general, the MSM is not the gun owners friend.

  4. Adam Watts says:

    Illinos has the fever again,

    http://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=4107&GAID=14&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=107988&SessionID=91

    Woooo hooo 10 round magazines!!!
    Yay! No more .50 BMG!

    • cy says:

      Great!!! The Dem’s in the Chicago area are going to force their will on the rest of the state. Chicago area should become its own state. Nothing but corruption and political machines.

      • badjujuu says:

        Following changes to IL –

        Cook County becomes IL
        Everything else gets divided between Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri and Kentucky

  5. benjamin says:

    guys, i would like to make sure I get this straight.
    you never mentioned in any of your posts the actual historical event that happened on October 1st. this is the highest casualty mass shooting in modern American history we are talking about here! i mean, you posted that your blog is with Paris and London when they had some terrors attacks but you didnt find it within reason to just say we are with you LV? we feel bad for the loss of life? our readers do too? cops, veterans and other good Americans died that night!
    BUT you found the time, and not just any time you spent over a thousand words on some worthless rebuttal with some fake news article?
    please explain if you get the chance.

    • SSD says:

      You’re right, I didn’t. Feel free to be outraged.

      It was my birthday and quite frankly, I was a bit more concerned about checking on friends in Vegas. By Tuesday, I figured we’d have a motive and I’d be able to discuss it. But, it’s four days later and still have no idea why he did it.

      At this point, the juggernaut is in motion. So, by all means, be upset that I didn’t post my condolences on SSD, but instead kept them private to friends and family.

    • I fucked Ben’s mom says:

      You’re a special little snowflake aren’t you Benjamin?

      • Erin says:

        Considering the almost uselessness of condolences to strangers, maybe SSD thought they would focus on something useful given the larger national political discussion. Just a thought Ben.

      • TominVA says:

        “I fucked Ben’s mom”

        Not cool no matter your point of view.

    • Thomas_67 says:

      It’s a “fake news article” that the democrats/liberals are passing off as the truth, and other liberals and uninformed Americans will see without rebuttal unless people like us push back.

    • Major_Northeast_City says:

      Benjamin, I hear you brother.
      And I have no need to refer to your Mother in an asinine way.

  6. Kit Badger says:

    Your logic has no place in this emotional debate…

  7. Maddog says:

    Seems to me… this shooter did everyone (within the United States) a tragic injustice. Not only are the elected “representatives” now teamed up together (Donkeys and Elephants) to further erode our Second Amendment right(s) but he also gave the donkeys new life… after they had been in the self-created throes of death.

  8. Pc says:

    Why refute an inaccurate news article?
    Why not focus outrage and sadness over the mass murder of Americans gathering to celebrate life?
    Do not make this a gun control argument but instead take the opportunity to call for us Americans to come together and focus on mourning the fallen.
    We support you LV.

    • jellydonut says:

      Why post factual information? Why write a useful article? Why not instead post the millionth instance of an empty platitude?

      There, I translated your post so that you can see how stupid it looks.

    • Thomas_67 says:

      These liberals at USA Today (and every other activist ‘news’ organization) who fraudulently report these lies are making this a gun control argument. To be silent and allow their lies to go unchallenged and watch as they further infringe on our rights is to be complicit with their actions.

    • Jester says:

      Pc (I assume that stands for politically correct),

      What you are suggesting we do is let the anti-freedom nutcases spout all the lies they want while we stand around offering useless condolences.

      Why are you opposed to the truth? Why do you not want to give the victims what they deserve? Don’t they deserve the truth?

    • SSD says:

      Why did I refute misleading news? Because the left is using every means possible to lie to the public. Go read the title.

  9. CWG says:

    FWIW, the only rounds that require individual stamps are HE and HEDP. They also require a fee HE license and approved HE a magazine.

    You can buy and shoot as many Blue HEDP trainers, CS/CS gas and gas penetrators, beehives, Air foils and Rubber batons as you want with out any hassle after buying your 40mm spud chucker.

  10. iggy says:

    good article. i wish an alternative 2nd amendment lobby would form, divorced from the emotive bullshit and hucksters of the NRA, and represent a smarter attitude.
    but i assume the NRA fear that more than the democrats.

  11. Marcus says:

    I read most of the victims profiles that were posted. Every single one of them to a person was someone special, or made an unusual contribution to our world. I also read enough stories of heroism and courage to know these are the type of people who will inherit our planet- and they should.

    On the opposite side we have a day-drinking loser, her fellow travelers and friends in the meedia, ever intent on pushing their destructive politics, even if it stands on the backs of victims. They only waited minutes to launch their sick tirades.

    That anyone would even believe it was a good idea to write articles like this in the wake of such a tragedy is a disgrace. That they would further inject politics, personal bias and fallacy is anathema to the human race.

    I have no doubt that what helps creates evil, cowardly monsters like this loser are the ugly people I just mentioned and the mendacious lies they peddle. After being fed lies, prodded emotionally and made the dupe, truth and reality are a bitter pill.

    He is largely their spawn and their proof is in the deflection, propaganda and lies they rush to promote.

    I despise them almost as much as I do the murderer.

  12. Marcus says:

    And Apparently the impression we are supposed to form of Larry Vickers, a guy who probably forgot more about firearms last night than most people will ever know, who has probably contributed more to the industry in the last month than most people will in a lifetime and who has sacrificed more than these lying weenies ever will, is that he’s some hick in a wife-beater with BBQ stains, “Bubba” written in sharpie, bad teeth, poor personal hygiene, a mullet and occasionally drops in on The Outdoor Channel to talk about ammo when he’s not day-drinking bourbon and taking afternoon naps…right?

  13. Richard Brownkatz says:

    By your statements…

    “Of those only a few were actually for the sale of real honest-to-goodness grenade launchers.”

    So they are advertised for sale over the net.

    “an ATF Form 4, payment of a $200 transfer stamp, background check to include fingerprints, and a wait of several months while a national agency check is conducted and the application is processed. And, on top of all of this, you have to be in a state that allows the individual to possess a destructive device like a grenade launcher.”

    So you can go through bureaucratic red tape and get permission.

    So you can legally own a grenade launcher in some states.

    “Can individuals run out and purchase grenade launchers?”

    “Run”? No.

    “purchase grenade launchers?” Yes.

    • SSD says:

      What thought are you attempting to formulate?

      • TominVA says:

        I think what Richard is saying is that while the graphic is misleading, suggesting you can just “run out” and buy one, your post acknowledges that it’s technically accurate. You CAN buy an M203. Is he wrong?

        I think it’s nuts that it’s even possible.

        • SSD says:

          If you go back to the actual new segment I was critiquing, and read the article I wrote, you will see that they in fact lead the viewer to believe that you can just go online and order an M203. The producer knew it wasn’t true and admitted as much. The veracity of my reporting stands.

          As for you, I suggest you don’t buy a grenade launcher. In fact, I’ll go one step further. If you are terrified of firearms in general, don’t buy any. It would probably also be a good idea to stop looking at them or even thinking about them. Safe spaces work, just as the college kids.

          • Richard Brownkatz says:

            I don’t doubt they did. And I didn’t argue they are right. I was commenting on what you wrote.

            I’m a gun owner, a hunter and a target shooter. I have no fear of weapons, just people.

            And personal attacks just make you sound desperate. They don’t add anything to a serious debate. The news show was misleading by not being specific. So was your post. You could have made your – valid – point without making the same mistake they did.

            • SSD says:

              I don’t care if you’re a Class 3 dealer. They intentionally mislead viewers and they knew it. I actually spoke to the producer. She admitted as much.

              If you doubt my account of what happened then you are calling me a liar and you put me in the same boat as them. In that case, I suggest you go back into your bubble and believe that the media is telling you the truth.

              • Richard Brownkatz says:

                I wrote “I don’t doubt they did. And I didn’t argue they are right.” And “The news show was misleading by not being specific.” And “You could have made your – valid – point…”

                “I don’t doubt they did” means I do not doubt your account. How do you get from me saying I don’t doubt your account to me saying you’re a liar?

                Let me try to make this clearer for you. I agree with you about the news show. I believe you when you say the producer admitted they were wrong. I do not think you were lying.

                I also think you’re avoiding my point. By your account it is possible – not easy, just possible – to buy a grenade launcher in our country.

                Your insults don’t change that.

                • SSD says:

                  Oh I haven’t insulted, yet. Sure, some people could buy a grenade launcher, but not in the manner described by ABCNews, or implied by USA Today or CNN. What makes it even worse is that ABC made it sound like you could buy firearms online. Just go to a website, order it and it shows up to your door. Completely false.

                  No matter how hard you try to justify their actions, they always come up as misleading. By the way, that’s a nice way of saying they lied.

                  • SSD says:

                    I forgot to mention that the best propaganda has just a kernel of truth in it.

                    Each of the three cases cited in this article, the actions of the “media” are propaganda.

  14. Ex Coelis says:

    Marcus – your not wrong. I’m a HUGE fan of Larry Vickers and you smacked that one, straight out of the ball-park, auld son… As for the consistency of our modern press(er, press-titutes?), mendacity, lies, etc – barely scratches the surface but obviously your much more of a diplomat than I, Sir. And thank you, SSD for posting this article – possibly THE best yet. In SSD’s press and reporting I trust, all the rest are entirely dubious at best…

  15. Non-operator says:

    The media (mass moreso than local) is little more than organized propaganda, especially on this issue. More than just the USA Today graphic, more than just the ABC article about grenade launchers, it is a systematic pattern of propaganda solely for one side on this issue. I’m only in my early thirties, but I actually remember some of the rhetoric from the media before and after the AWB passing. And again when it sunset. And again after every mass murder/shooting. The misrepresentations, half-truths, and in some cases outright lies on the gun control issue are indicative of a number of things: a culture of group-think among the profession that they all embrace, a disregard for facts and truth when it contradicts their talking points, and more troublesome – an absolute blank check lack-of-accountability from the higher ups in the those organizations when they present false and misleading information on the issue. It used to be a conspiracy that the media supported one side over the other; now we have it in black and white thanks to revelations published during the last election cycle.

    The media (mass, mainstream) will never reference the Federalist Papers when talking about 2A issues. They will never subtract suicides from total numbers of gun deaths and make legitimate comparisons to other causes of preventable death. They always give the spotlight to the bereaved who demand “action,” and not those in the same situation who see differently. (Cases in point – Columbine and Sandy Hook)

    Articles like the two you mentioned are frustrating, but IMO more frustrating because they have long ago stopped being surprising. In my younger years I used to argue these points on social media, and occasionally in real life, but no longer. I vote with my dollars and I vote for real, and contact my elected officials, whether they read what I write or not.

    I understand there are exceptions and caveats to some of these blanket statements about the media, but the Fox News’ etc. of the world are outnumbered and out-influenced by and large across the general public by those that are fully bought into the propaganda. Unfortunately I think it’s more sane to expect these types of articles and lies from the media and be surprised when the opposite occurs, based upon years of observation.

    • Cwg says:

      Gun owners are pretty ignorant about a lot of things too though, for example the celebration of the Federalist Papers due to covering cherry picked quotes, when in fact the federalists (and their essays) were staunchly anti individual rights and pro big national government.

      The Anti-federalists, with a similarly named book of their essays, were the pro individual liberties crowd who fought for the the bill of rights.

      The more you know.gif

      • Non-operator says:

        True. Our side doesn’t always do itself favors, but even with perfectly factual, researched, accurate counter points they are lost to the tidal wave of negative media coverage about firearms. It has been going on for decades and is not going to stop.

        • TominVA says:

          Well, if people wouldn’t shoot other people and kids wouldn’t accidentally kill their friends or themselves, I’ll bet they would stop. It’s the whole killing thing that upsets people; not so much the guns but what people can do with them.

          • Jester says:

            Riddle me this, batman:

            If the problem can be legislated away with more anti-freedom laws, why is it more a problem now with more gun laws on the books, than it was in 1928 for instance, when there weren’t as many gun laws?

            Does America have a corner on the murder market because of a “gun problem”, or are there people in other parts of the world killing each other by oh, I don’t know–running into large crowds with trucks and then jumping out to carve everyone up with a knife? Or perhaps strapping a vest full of explosives to himself and walking into a crowded marketplace before detonating it?

  16. TominVA says:

    In other words, “Sorry about your daughter being shot in the head Ms. Moreland, but the media is brazenly biased and inaccurate in its reporting of how people can actually buy grenade launchers. Don’t you see how this is a problem?”

    I know this post has the best of intentions behind it, but it probably is not your best moment, SSD.

    Never let a crisis go to waste? There are a lot of good, thoughtful, conscientious people who really struggle to see why the average citizen should have access to the kind of weaponry recently used to kill dozens and wound hundreds in Las Vegas, the very kind of weaponry discussed on this site.

    Never let a crisis go to waste? How is the media NOT going to report on existing gun law in the wake of a shooting like this. It’s not bias, it’s their job. Heck even the NRA tacitly acknowledged there might be an issue with its call for a review of existing gun law and suggesting that bump stocks should be subject to additional regulation (so big of them, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry).

    Of course, it’s also the media’s job, and obligation, to report accurately and (mostly) objectively, and I agree, the above graphic is a fail.

    Here’s where they didn’t fail. Or I should say where you, SSD, didn’t fail. I wasn’t aware that it was even possible for a citizen to acquire a grenade launcher (and ammunition?!), and I’m betting I’m in good company. Granted, it sounds like an extremely slow, painful, expensive, and ultimately prohibitive proposition, which is good, but why on earth should it even be possible? How does that make any sense? How do bump stocks make any sense?

    Based on your post, I take it USA Today’s (and ABC’s back on 2010) objective was to sensationalize the issue with the ultimate aim of moving public opinion towards preventing access to the kind of firepower that enabled the Vegas shooting. And if a handful of citizens harboring dark fantasies of how their personal arsenals stand as guarantors of individual liberty have to give up some (or who knows maybe all) of their weapons to prevent another tragedy like Vegas, so be it.

    Pretty understandable.

    Bias in reporting may seem regrettable or even evil, but ultimately, it’s inescapable. Whether it’s air time, or white space, editors and producers with the best, purest intentions, have to make daily, hourly, and even minute by minute decisions over what goes in and what’s left out. And they have to sell, too. No way around it. Bias is always present. Is ABC biased against Americans acquiring the arms necessary to wantonly kill and wound on the scale witnessed in Las Vegas? Apparently. I own firearms, and I’m against it too.

    It is true that those who argue against gun ownership by individuals tend not to acknowledge that the second amendment really is commentary, revealing an inconvenient truth about the human condition, relations between states, and relations between a government and it’s people. But those who argue in favor of the armed citizen as our best guarantor of our republic are wrong.

    The best guarantor, exercised every day in the media (and on this site for that matter), is the first amendment. The mainstream media, for all its flawed, biased, and misleading reporting, to include graphics about rifles and grenade launchers, is and has always been the best, most effective champion of civil liberty and justice this country has.

    I give USA Today a pass on this one.

    Ok a half-pass.

    Maybe a Diet Coke of passes.

    • SSD says:

      I don’t give them a pass. It’s inaccurate. It doesn’t really matter if it’s intentional or not. And, if I know that this is inaccurate, how am I supposed to trust anything they say?

      • TominVA says:

        Misleading yes. But technically it IS accurate right?

        How to trust? Well, maybe on some issues you don’t. On gun matters you seem to be a pretty discerning guy, as in this case. On contentious issues, you can trust people, including the media, to be at least a little more biased and so it seems with USA Today.

        I don’t see them being biased on reporting success or failure of the next SpaceX launch, so we can probably trust them on that. If Elon Musk buys USA Today (or whoever owns it), that should shape how we view its reporting on his business endeavors.

        There’s no free lunch. The most highly regarded national papers and mags have had their woes.

    • Jester says:

      Do us a favor, Tom in Virginia, tell us how many people have been murdered by someone with a grenade launcher in the US. Then when you undoubtedly discover it is not a large number (if any), explain how it is a problem.

      You may choose to let a “free press” do your fighting for you and guarantee your civil liberties: I doubt many truly freedom-loving Americans will agree with you.

      • TominVA says:

        Let’s say the number is zero or close to it if we allow for the demise of some idiot playing with one in his basement or garage. Could it be that the low figure is a direct result of the prohibitively difficult acquisition process? Might the figure be higher if grenade launchers and ammo were more easily acquired? Maybe. Sounds crazy, but then there was this guy who easily acquired dozens of weapons and thousands of rounds and did a hell of job murdering people in Las Vegas. Is it worth the risk?

        When was the last time the second amendment did ANYTHING to sustain my civil liberties or yours?

        Let’s assume you were not a fan of the Obama administration or its policies. In what way did the second amendment insure you were even aware of those policies ? Let’s assume The Donald introduces a bill restricting semi-automatic weapons to military and LE. How are you going to hear about that?

        What kind of “fighting” have you ever done on behalf of our civil liberties that involves the exercise of your second amendment right?

        • jjj0309 says:

          So our civil liberties are something to get “fighting” over, not something we endowed by our birth and god given rights, but the special privilege given to people by the government, huh?
          Well, it’s that’s case I’m “fighting” everyday in this mad world full of people like you with complete totalitarian mindset. I deal with them everyday, every single days in my life, both online and offline and their opinion-bloated ignorant, arrogant words killing me inside everyday, but I’m “fighting” to survive, because I am born to protect American citizen’s rights and freedom, if there is any opportunity given to me in future, and that is my very indispensable duty, protect peace and freedom with eternal vigilance.
          I’m not doing anything particularly “holy” or “Great” like you because I do not have the opportunity to do great things. But I’m pretty sure I’m doing small things in great ways, for the better future for our children. I’m fighting and struggling to survive this world full of people going more blinded, hypocritical, and hysterical day by day.
          If that’s “fighting”, yeah I’m “fighting” everyday. I will be “fighter” until the they I die because when I stop fighting, there will be no future for us or our children.

    • Non-operator says:

      “This kind of weaponry” line is typical. The crime is heinous, but deaths from “assault” rifles are a statistical anomaly. Look up the FBI Uniform Crime Report for the past several decades, where firearm homicides are broken down by type of weapon. It lists “Rifle,” as a category, which would include ALL “assault” rifles, like what was used in Vegas. This number is typically 300-400 annually. Which is about the same as the number of people struck (not killed) by lightning annually. Nevermind the fact that ALL violent crime, including firearm homicide, has been on a downward trend before, during, and AFTER the AWB.

      140 people die DAILY from prescription opioid overdoses. Medical error is the #3 cause of death in this country. Google this stuff if you don’t believe it. But know that your emotion based argument is not backed in statistical fact, and that firearm homicide, to include mass murders, is not the plague the media is making you think it is.

      • TominVA says:

        I believe you. I don’t think it’s a plague, I think it’s a problem. Don’t you?

        Thousands, probably tens of thousands of people die in vehicle accidents every year. I have a car, my wife does, my kids do, most of the people who want a weapons ban likely do and you as well. But our solution to vehicle deaths is to improve the safety of these vehicles and the laws that govern their use, not ban them. That is because even anti-gun advocates can plainly see a direct societal benefit to use of the internal combustion engine. It is almost literally how our nation “runs” and is vital to our prosperity and, by extension, our security as a nation. For now and the foreseeable future, that’s how things are, so we all accept the risk, which, let’s face it, even in the face of all those deaths annually, is not very great to individuals.

        Now, the gun control crowd cannot see how owning firearms can similarly benefit themselves or society. They see no threat to their liberty that cannot be addressed by the active exercise of the first amendment and the right to vote. All they see is a bunch fringe knuckleheads with dark fantasies about the breakdown of society who want ARs with high cap magazines (and bump stocks I guess) to prepare for it, and why, just exactly why, should even one single American’s life be place in jeopardy so said knuckleheads can continue to indulge this fantasy.

        I like my guns, but I am hard pressed to argue against this point of view. Certainly not to Ms. Moreland.

        • Non-operator says:

          It’s a problem literally of the same scope as being struck by lightning. It can be proven statistically that after the sun setting of the AWB, which you seem to want a resurrection of, firearm homicides, including those from “assault” weapons, declined. You stop just short of saying the classic line, “if it saves just one life.” If you’re TRULY concerned about preventing deaths, through an honest, fact and number based analysis, “assault” weapon banning would be towards the bottom of the list. Doing the most good for the most people would be severely curtailing the prescriptions of oxy, for example.

          The car comparison is apples to oranges. ARs would represent a type of vehicle between average sports cars and exotics. Are they vital to the nation’s function? No. But there would be no compelling case to ban them without resorting to propaganda journalism, as is the topic of this whole comment section. And we are not all knuckle-dragging hicks. That is a propagandized stereotype.

          • TominVA says:

            The classic line, “if is saves just one life?” In this case, clearly more than one life. Where’s the death toll now? 59? How many wounded? Will it stay at 59? Probably not.

            But let’s say it IS just one life. And that life is not over yet? Pretend I’m Ms. Moreland. My daughter is has lost an eye and lies in a coma. She may live, but the life she might have had is gone forever. She may be an invalid. She may be plagued with chronic pain, perhaps even to the point of contemplating suicide. Or maybe she pulls through and makes a full recovery and regains her future through the benefit of medical science and a lot of hard work. Or, perhaps mercifully, she may die.

            Your right to own a weapon of the kind Stephen Paddock used is worth doing this to my daughter because…why?

            • Non-operator says:

              You keep ignoring the facts I present and resort to an emotion based argument, as is typical. You realize that not everyone that suffers this exact same tragedy thinks and feels exactly the same way? When the last POTUS had his “town hall” or whatever it was with victims of Sandy Hook, there were a number of parents who DIDN’T agree and were not invited nor given airtime. And the same with Columbine. Which, by the way, was not prevented by the AWB in place at the time.

              86 were killed by one vehicle in Nice. McVeigh reaped many times more without a shot fired. Reducing the argument to “you go personally tell that person how horrible you are,” is an old tactic devoid of fact, logic, or statistical relevance. No law can do what you think it would.

              • TominVA says:

                Emotion based?

                “Sorry your kid’s dead, lady, but you don’t understand the facts and don’t be so emotional.”

                Ok. Nice, got it. Oklahoma City, got it. Here’s another fact: 59 dead in Vegas. Or is that fake news and we’re talking about nothing?

                Statistical relevance? What would be relevant? What’s your number? How many Americans die before you say, “You know, maybe my gun hobby’s not worth it?”

                There are parents of victims who don’t support more restrictive gun laws? I believe you. Where is the logic in that position? There are parents who don’t vaccinate their children because of their convictions. There are parents who deny there children life-saving medical care because of their convictions. I think they are wrong. Am I still being illogical?

                Nice and Oklahoma City. Trucks and fertilizer. And don’t forget airliners. Horrible tragedies, including one that started a war we’re still fighting. Yet we still have trucks, fertilizer and airliners. But isn’t that because these tools, among many others, clearly sustain our livelihoods and the security of our society? We can all see that, right? So we strike a bargain that the odds our in our favor and we do what we can to try to prevent future tragedies.

                Now, let’s say I’m a gun control advocate, which to some degree I guess I am. Tell me why you or I or anyone should have access to assault weapons? I get the need for trucks, fertilizer, and airliners. With respect to our South Korean friend, I don’t believe we’re in danger of seeing our government turn into an oppressive regime. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t and I’m confident I’m far from alone in that opinion.

                Where is the need for assault weapons in the hands of private citizens?

                • Non-operator says:

                  Clearly you are a gun control advocate. What’s my number before I support an AWB? It’s gonna have to be 5 or 10x the rate of lightning strikes, which right now it isn’t even 2x.

                  The “need” is about the slow, steady erosion of rights over time. The Korean is right. It’s what happened in Britain. In Australia. In California. In Chicago. You may be well intentioned, but those that contribute the tens of millions to the gun control effort want the effort to go on until all ownership is banned. You seem to be new to the gun control the debate, but for those of us that have been studying the issue for decades, the patterns and intentions are obvious.

                  • TominVA says:

                    Ok, so the argument IS about the preservation of liberty.

                    But if push comes to shove and gun control advocates gain the political upper hand, vague assertions about the erosion of rights may not cut it. Whoever is leading the second amendment charge will be called out to explain just how citizens would use their right to keep and bear arms to preserve them.

                    Surely this means the threat of violent insurrection, probably to include political assassination and ambush of federal troops and law enforcement.

                    This argument would have to be made to people who feel perfectly free to say what they please, worship as they please, vote as they please, travel within and beyond their country’s borders as they please, and basically pursue happiness as they please, as long as it doesn’t interfere with another citizen’s ability to do likewise.

                    Very tough argument to make.

            • Non-operator says:

              Try your own logic: go tell those parents who lost children in shootings, and don’t agree with you, that you’re going to use their tragic loss as a political prop to pass a feel-good law that they don’t agree with.

              • TominVA says:

                I would tell them I’m sorry for their loss, but I think they are wrong.

                If I champion a law that demonstrably resulted in the prevention of tragedies like Vegas, what’s wrong with feeling good about it?

                Oh wait, I think I understand what you mean. No, I’m not in favor of passing legislation purely for the sake of being able to say something was done.

                • Victor DiCosola says:

                  Let’s get the facts straight. Tired of hearing 59 deaths. IT WAS 58 INNOCENT LIVES LOST…and 1 coward got dead. It should never be labeled at 59 lives lost, just 58.

                • Non-operator says:

                  The law you’re advocating for – an AWB – has been demonstrably proven to be ineffective and firearm homicide DID NOT increase after it sunset. That’s what makes it “feel good,” because despite these facts, you think surely the next one will work.

                  • TominVA says:

                    But the AWB was a ban on sales right? No one had to turn in their weapons right? So…what if a new AWB required everyone to turn in there ARs? Magazines too. No one would come to pry them from our cold dead hands. But maybe we’d get fined out the wazoo when caught with one? That might not eliminate or even much reduce the death toll, but it might prevent future mass killings like Vegas, right?

                    I think we can agree that such a law is not going to happen under the current administration, probably.

                    But you know, none of these arguments matter. People can look at Vegas and the weapons Paddock used and say, “No citizen has a legitimate need for those weapons. Let’s get rid of them. No doubt some pathetic individual will find another way to kill scores of people. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. In the mean time, they won’t have this way.”

                    If tragedies like this continue, that is the point of view you will have to address if you want to hang on to your ARs. So, do you have such an argument?

                    • James says:

                      So you would make millions of people criminals? Are you gonna be out on the streets to enforce it? You and your buddies at whatever .org you work for?

                    • TominVA says:

                      Hi James,
                      I work for me.org. Great organization.

                      Enforcement? How about everybody gets a year to turn in their ARs. After that, a grace period of, I don’t know, say 90 days? After that if you’re caught with one, your weapon gets confiscated and you get a ticket with a court date or the option of paying a hefty fine online. Something like that.

                      No criminals. No jail time.

                    • AlexC says:

                      “That might not eliminate or even much reduce the death toll, but it might prevent future mass killings like Vegas, right?”

                      But it wouldn’t stop the killing. That’s the problem with your argument. The law would not stop the killing. No law would stop the killing. No law can stop the killing.

                      You can’t stop the killing. We, the people who do try to stop the killing, have to get it right EVERY SINGLE DAY, every single time.

                      A successful killer only has to get it right once.

                      You can’t stop the killing. You can only be ready for when it shows up.

                      Anders Behring Breivik
                      Killed 69 with only a single Mini-14

                      Improvised Firearms
                      Are easy to make and completely untraceable or track able

                      Black Market Smugglers
                      Can get you non-improvised guns in most countries that have illegal drug use.

                      3D Printing
                      Makes it easier make firearm components

                      Cheap, METAL 3D Printing
                      Will make it easier to make firearms full stop

                      I’ll say it again. You can’t, and you won’t be able to stop these events. You can only be prepared for them, and infringing on everyone else’s rights, in order to accomplish something that is not achievable, is not acceptable to me.

                    • TominVA says:

                      AlexC,

                      Can’t stop the killing? I’ll bet we can try. What do we have to lose by trying?

    • jjj0309 says:

      So the truth does not matter when it’s about politics? Lies and distorts are acceptable when it’s have ‘Good’ intention? No bad method, just bad targets, huh?
      You sir, that’s very definition of propaganda.
      Do you think your ‘free’ press fighting for you like a hero, defending innocent lives? And to achieve that they can makes free-pass justifiable lies and distort? You sir, you are naive as 7 years old.
      To conquer a nation, you must first disarm it’s citizens. I’m from a country has completely, the absolute zero firearms ownership percentage and it’s worse than perfect Dystopia in western sci-fi novel. The government slaughtered hundreds, thousands of people last few decades with ‘free-pass’. In 1980, 18th of May the government sent thousands of troops where my uncle lived because college kids made protest to make people able to vote for our politicians, and they killed thousands of innocent citizens with Armored Vehicles, Full-auto M60s attached to choppers. It was shoot on sight and the whole city became killing field. The citizens were unarmed and they had no chance. My uncle died in his house while he tried to poke his head outside of the windows to see what is going on outside. One of the martial soldier blew his brain with M16 and his whole family watched his head blew off and died. A patriotic, freedom loving American citizen trying to defend their rights isn’t ‘dark fantasies’. THIS is dark dark fantasies. Where citizens are completely disarmed and defenseless, unable to defend themselves or their country while people in uniforms and suspicious agencies arming themselves with countless mass-murder weapons. Shoot-on-sight, police state, giving up people’s indispensable rights and duties because of few criminals and crooks, defenseless and unarmed people against tyranny and crimes, that’s the dark fantasy and that’s terror.
      Truth never damages a cause that is just. If USA Today had justifiable goal and holy political agenda, they shouldn’t have distort the fact or outright make lies in their articles. If you’re one of the people, like nowaday college kids who thinks the truth is subjective thing and changes in times and even lies can become the truth if it’s good intention, I want to kindly say to you that read other media outlets like Gawker, who makes tons of comfortable daily lies just for you, who can get easily offended by the truth. Be lies and politics occupy your mind and blind your insights. Give corrupted, multi-billion mass media free pass when they makes lies because you agree with their agenda. You’re polluting and endanger this world more than law-abiding citizen’s legally owned rifles or even hundreds of nukes ready to fire.

      “The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom.”
      -Robert A. Heinlein

      “The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. It is our duty to defend them against all attacks. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated of designing men.”
      -Samuel Adams

      “That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer’s cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
      -George Orwell

      “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
      -George Mason

      “The truth is not always beautiful, nor beautiful words the truth.”
      -Lao Tzu

      “There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.
      There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.
      The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?
      We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.”
      -John Swinton, Former Chief Editorial Writer of The New York Times
      The Year of 1880, At the Journalist Press Dinner Party

      • TominVA says:

        Friend, of course the truth matters. I never said it didn’t.

        I do not support the media or anyone else making outright lies.

        USA Today’s graphic, per SSD, is accurate, but it’s easy to see how someone ignorant of current gun law (as I clearly was) could infer that you can easily accessorize your AR with a grenade launcher. Thanks to SSD’s research, we know that’s not even close to being true. I gave USA Today a pass (I’m sure they’ll be glad to know it). You don’t need to give a pass to someone who has done nothing wrong.

        My point is that an awful lot of Americans including, apparently, the editors at USA Today, cannot understand the practical need for anyone to have access to the kind of weaponry that made the Las Vegas killings possible. To them it’s a serious problem. They aren’t interested in a statistics about how many Americans are killed by what type of gun, or cars, or heroin. The body count from Vegas (or Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc.) is all they need to know. We’ve got it pretty good here in the States. They can’t see a need to have weapons at the ready to prepare for an armed insurrection against a brutal, oppressive regime that we do not have nor are likely to, and there is nothing else individual citizens can do with those weapons that is worth one single American life. I can understand this point of view. It’s pretty reasonable. Gun rights advocates, often very vocally, either cannot, or more likely, refuse to see this.

        My follow on point is that, at least for now in the United States, the absolute best guarantor of our liberty is a free press and a politically engaged citizenry. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and that ounce is the first amendment, not the second.

        Would you mind telling us where you’re from? If you’d rather not, that’s fine. Just curious.

        About where you’re from, it sounds brutal. I am sorry for your uncle and all those who have suffered and died. It seems in this case, the pound of cure – armed insurrection – is in order, but, and you probably know this far better than any of us, that is a very long, horrible road. And as we’ve seen in countless places throughout the globe and throughout history, insurrections rarely ever occur in a vacuum. Great powers, competing powers, always get involved and often not to the benefit of ordinary people -even if they do have weapons.

        As I said, we’ve got it good here in the States. We have all the freedoms any thinking person could reasonably ask. I’ve argued that our best guarantor of these liberties is freedom of speech and press. But while I’m at it, I would add that we have a very strong tradition of military subservience to civilian authority. That is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to government of, by and for the people.

        Small things in great ways? I completely agree.

        • jjj0309 says:

          I’m from South Korea for your information. In here, you cannot own any firearms, crossbow, pepper-spray, or any blade object without license. Even owning toy guns are illegal. We cannot even play video games at night and you can be arrested if you play ‘illegal nighttime video gaming’. There is absolutely no law definition about ‘self defense’ and you will get more sentence than the attacker if you try to defend yourself. There are law about ‘defamation by the truth’ and you will go to jail if you post anything contains truth that is considered ‘offensive’. Hundreds and thousands of people get jailed for posting truth online or offline. Pornography is completely illegal in any form and more than 10,000 people registered onto sex offender registry annually because they watched drawn picture of tits online. A 15 years old girl killed herself because she got registered onto child sex offender registry because she watched online gay romance novel. A man who watched drawn pornography comics online from Japan sentenced 5 years in prison while child rapists gets free probation. The list goes on and on.
          You think this is crazy? This can happen in your country if you giving up your rights one by one, fooled by lies and propaganda. This can happen in any country and it is happening everywhere, you just don’t see it.
          You think your country doing just fine, right? Giving up few rifles won’t do any harm, huh? Think again. In Korean proverb, “If you put a frog in boiling water it’ll jump out right away. But if you put a frog in cold water and slowly heating it, the frog will die in the water without knowing he’s boiling to death.”.
          The police state won’t happen overnight. First it’ll start trivia things, like few regulations and censorship there and there, without people ever realizing it. And they’ll move onto big things, spreading sugar-coated propaganda saying they’re protecting citizens, for national security, for our children, and next thing you’ll realize you’re being arrested for writing a post online that is offensive to the state and the receipt of butter knife that you purchased 10 years ago in grocery store.
          Freedom-loving, patriotic, 2nd Amendment supporting American citizens are, to my third world Dystopian citizen’s eye, they are true heroes. They are the last stronghold against the recent global totalitarianism outbreak and they are protecting the freedom of the world, not just for the states.
          But your press, you think they’re free, but in fact they are not free at all. I can go on and on about the current state of American media and how they corrupted. They are not your fiend now fighting for your welfare. The media were always the front instigator of countless wars and great atrocities. There are no such thing as ‘free press’ in modern day’s America and never was. They were always at the front line to make public believe war is peace and ignorance is bliss. You know and I know it. Every single news medias are behind paycheck and they can’t write a single thing without permission from higher ups. And now you think they suddenly decided to make peaceful world, where guns, swords and uniforms scattered onto ground and people dancing round and round around it?
          Wake up and face the reality. The media is the 4th branch of the government and always will be. Every single one of media in US is owned by groups and companies with political agenda and they sell information to change the public opinion more favors to their goal and plan. They are front soldiers of this little mind war game and if you give more free pass to those scummy media when they’re lying and distort, spread disinformation, soon this country will degrade into intellectual dark age; or maybe we’re already are.
          Make your own research and never forgive those media who make lies to sell, and distort to their own political agenda. I’ll rather choose to be uninformed than misinformed.
          And if you think we are powerless even with the weapons; I want to say that’s what those elitists in Bilderberg and CFR wants you to believe; we are not powerless. We have power to change out own destiny and nation’s future; it’s up to us whether choose to be free or slave.
          You are not free and nor your press; None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. If you wish to enslave a man, allow him to believe that he is already free. And they are doing the very thing to American citizen; make them believe giving up rights and freedom is to way of freedom. Just like Orwell said.

          “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety, and will lose both.”
          -Benjamin Franklin

          • TominVA says:

            Hi,
            I wanted to answer you before I shut down for the night.

            I can’t address all your observations about your country. I’ll take your word for it. It sounds terrible. I had no idea.

            As for my country, it IS free. It’s citizens are free. I’m free. SSD readers are free. And the press if free too, including this website. I think there is more freedom of the press now, and available to the average citizen than ever before. As for the established media, if you don’t like what they write, you can write what you like. Starting your own website is easy and cheap and your point of view is instantly available to the whole world, not just the United States.

            As for the future, I am hopeful. If there is one thing SSD readers have in common with gun control advocates, it is that they are not sheep. all Americans, no matter their politics, are fiercely independent at heart and many are quite vocal about it.

            But ours is government of, by, and for the people. Our rights can be taken, but only if thats what Americans want. There is a mechanism within our constitution through which that can be tried, but the standard to pass a new amendment is very high and very hard to meet.

            I understand you, but I think we’ll be fine.

            • MThomas says:

              Who the fuck are you to say I do not need an AR to defend myself or my family. It is our Right to be able to defend ourselves. This country was founded on it.
              Go shoot your pistol at 20 feet then shoot your AR at 20 feet.
              Tell me what you hit. Does anybody really think bad guys get guns at the gun shop? they don’t. The gun show? they don’t.
              Wake up. Every crook will be up your ass taking what is yours and leaving you for dead.
              You dumbasses can hope you save even one person all you want. Take responsibility and save yourself.

              • TominVA says:

                Have you ever defended yourself, family, friends, with an AR? Know anyone who has?

              • SSD says:

                The problem is they don’t actually want to save lives. If they did, there’s all kinds of stuff that kills lots more people. It’s something else at work.

              • TominVA says:

                In other words, if they were really serious about saving lives, they would go after the truly leading causes of death and insist on a Manhattan Project for cancer research, cars that top out at 20mph with massive airbags for fenders and driver’s seat BAC detection, single-payer healthcare, and so on.

                Yes, in that sense, I think you are right.

                But vehicle accidents and life-threatening illnesses are impersonal agents. They don’t “mean” to kill people. They just do. Murder has a different quality in peoples’ minds. Stephen Paddock set out to murder. He planned his attack, equipped himself with weapons conceived, designed, and manufactured for the efficient taking of human life and then went out and did just that.

                The fact that people contemplate things like that is sad. That they can legally equip themselves and actually make it happen is tragic, unnecessary, and, compared to cancer, a relatively cheap and easy fix. And if a new AWB on sales and ownership doesn’t produce dramatic results, frankly, so what? What’s the down side?

                As for “something else at work,” something conspiratorial, maybe? I doubt it. Or maybe it’s nothing that isn’t at work on the gun rights side too. Some people need a cause – any one will do, some want to be on a team or be part of something larger, some just need to be mad at someone else. I’m not suggesting insincerity on anyone’s part, just that it’s all very human, ordinary stuff.

                • SSD says:

                  Well you might be good intentioned in your desire to strip away my civil rights, there are forces are in motion decades ago which set about to undermine our culture, form of government, and way of life.

                  Many leftist causes grew out of those efforts. I thought they would just go away when communism self-imploded in the late 80s, early 90s but the corruption had taken route to deep.

                  • TominVA says:

                    Culture? Form of government? Way of life? Sounds like we’re talking about A LOT more than just guns.

                    Corruption? What is corrupt about wanting to prevent mass murder?

                    I’m not in favor of repealing the second amendment, and for the record, I believe when it says “people”, it very clearly means individuals like you and me. And we should be able to defend ourselves, our families, and our property. We don’t need ARs and bump stocks to do that, no matter how much fun they are. If we’re really concerned about personal security, our time and money is better spent building better, more robust law enforcement, not personal arsenals.

                    • jjj0309 says:

                      Jesus christ, Tom, A LOT more than just guns? Of course this is A LOT more than just guns, taking guns away from citizen is about violating constitution, and ultimately about enslaving citizen through disarming. Everything is connected and there is no such thing as coincidence in politics. You seriously thinking disarming American citizen is just about guns? Are you joking or trying to fooling me? Do you know how many companies, political powers, powerful bloodlines and how many shady organizations in America desperately want gun-ban to happen? Do you think this is just about some guns?
                      And you think disarming American citizen isn’t quit corruption because, well, it has good intention? Every atrocious happened in history, every single one of them was started from ‘good intention’. Communism, Fascism, War, Slavery, Massacre and genocide, Dictatorship, and even Hitler; they all thought they were doing the right thing and has good intention. Even if you have good intention you can’t bring right result with wrong method; and even if you doing the right thing while having malicious intention it cannot bring good result either. It is the most basic morality and ethics lesson taught since old Greek age. And your solution is disarming the citizen and give more guns to uniforms? Because it has good intention; which somehow would stop mass murder? That is your solution? Just wow. That is the exact corruption happened through dawn of age, the most typical propaganda excuse to disarm and enslave the people. Do you really think disarming the citizen will stop the meanie mass murder? Do you think other firearm-free countries doesn’t have any Las Vegas style mass murder? In Europe they do it with bombs and trucks, in Asia and Middle-East the government do worse mass murder every years. And in South America and Africa they do it regardless of the firearms law of the nation. Do you think taking guns away from American citizen will change the hearts of men? Tool are to blame, not the people, huh? Despite how many our founding fathers warned about the danger of disarming the citizen and taking arms away from our people, you now instead listen those mass media on TV and give them ‘free-pass’ despite our Eric debunked their distorted narrative?
                      And do you think we does not want to give up our own civil rights because we thinking they are funny? I have no fucking gun in my whole life and never even shoot bump stock because I don’t have any fucking citizenship, and I still know taking guns away from American citizen is bullshit. I, the person who grew up in shitty slum in Korea and been through shits and seen through shits, have no civil rights or freedom, worked in LA for a whole in fucking literal sweat shops, never experienced any luxury privileges American has, even I know how precious Freedom is, and now you, the legal citizen of America, the king of the world to us the third world slanty-eyes, gladly throw it away because of few psycho criminals? Because the media told you so, taking guns away from American citizen will make American into New World Order Utopia where people hold their hands in hands and dancing round and round? And your solution is giving more guns to law enforcement?
                      Take my lesson pal, it will never, ever fucking work NEVER. It won’t work, period. Giving your guns to government will never solve the mass murder problem and actually it’ll only make it worse; and meanwhile the neckleash of the modern day slavery which is invisible to you, will be tightened and tightened day by day after you choose the willful slavery. I can surely say because I saw it happen and suffered it happen.
                      Kennedy said the great enemy of truth is very often not the contrived and dishonest lie, but the persistent, persuasive and unrealistic myth. You are fooled by one; the myth that giving up the most important civil rights of American will magically solve the problem that is within the heart of men. And thinking taking your guns away isn’t quit violating the 2nd Amendment; which doesn’t make sense in even elementary school level of insight. At least be blatant like those crazy young kids who opens says “Fuck the 2nd Amendment”. Your kind of attitude is the greatest enemy of American constitution, more than obvious and blatant liars and radicals; a pretentious, ignorant attitude where trying to compromise between the Constitution and popular political opinions, comforting yourself that you’re serving both but you will lose both just like Benjamin said.
                      You have new religion that is called Statism. You have your own god that is called Government. And when those two combined, the most dangerous superstition created that is called Authority. You forgotten men or god; and thinking materials and tools are the blame of men’s crime. I don’t know what to say to you anymore, because I cannot teach anything to you; the only thing I can is make you think again, which you’re not willing to. And I had enough word to say. Rest are up to you.

                      “The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”
                      -H. L. Mencken

                    • TominVA says:

                      JJ (can I call you that? it’s easier),

                      I really liked your response. Even the “Jesus christ, Tom” part.

                      I have to complement you. Most of the comments in this thread seem to equate “civil liberties” with only one: the second amendment. It’s become a self-licking icecream cone. You, on the other hand, are aware that there is a lot more at stake.

                      I agree, there is. But if you saw one of our rights under consideration for repeal, would you grab a rifle and start shooting? No, you would engage with your government and your fellow citizens to try to prevent it by exercising your first amendment rights. Much like you are doing now. It is the first amendment which assures the second, not vice versa.

                      The problem for you is that you have to explain to your fellow citizens, who don’t see the problem with taking ARs away, just exactly how the previous AWB eroded civil liberties and how the next one would as well. You should also be prepared to explain, just in case they ask, that if, failing a political solution and losing, say, the right to assemble, at what point would you grab a rifle and who you would shoot first?

                      You will be explaining all this to a people who are just about as free as anyone on this planet has ever been since humans began organizing into societies and who see no clear threat to their freedoms. Good luck.

  17. Simeon Nant says:

    The NRA told me the only way to defeat a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun. And yet, 59 KIA and 489 WIA in a state that has some of the loosest gun laws in the US. Nevada has no waiting period, open carry, “shall issue” concealed carry, and the ability to keep a loaded weapon hidden in your vehicle without any type of permit. In fact, in Nevada (and the City of Las Vegas) one can open carry in a bar or a casino. So where were all the III %-ers, and the facebook gunslingers with their “infidel” t-shirts and their coveted AR-15s? I guess they couldn’t get out of Mama’s basement fast enough.

    • SSD says:

      The question you should be asking is if all of those guns are so dangerous, why aren’t there mass murders in Vegas every day?

      • TominVA says:

        How many do you want? One’s enough for me. Paddock made it a good one too.

        • jjj0309 says:

          How many do you want with the truck attacks? Nobody saying anything to ban trucks! That one with France killed 86 people, more than Paddock did.

    • jjj0309 says:

      And yet the Chicago, one of the strict anti-gun city; has the highest gun murder rate in the entire US. More than 10 Las Vegas shooting combined within a year.
      You ask where all the law-abiding citizens at? They were at somewhere else miles away, without knowing it’s happening or where he was shooting you pretentious ignorant. You seriously believe some guy with AR-15 fly over the scene and knock out the hotel door and kill the shooter before the police arrive? Well, you ignorant, not everyone with legally owned firearms have ability to hunt down mass murderers like vigilantes in comic books! Oh wait, the gun grabbers hate the idea of militia and civilian vigilante! So what should we gonna do against criminals? Just sitting inside of Mama’s basement, posting stupid fallacies online, feeling superiority by showing off your pure ignorance?
      Do I have to mention how many times in US history that murder rampages and terror attacks prevented by citizens with arm? Go somewhere else with your ignorant logic, where people agree with your elementary school level of fallacy and opinion.

  18. Alpha2 says:

    Another group I am sick and f’n tired hearing from are the Hollywood elitists tha sink tons of their money into anti-gun campaigns and will without hesitation use all manners of weaponry and violence to sell a movies they make, alot of hypocrites in this country now a day and being born and raised and unfortuneatly still residing in California I am completely disgusted by the sheep in this state that blindly nod their heads up and down every time one of this states legislators speak about “common sense gun control”, and yet when there is a “common sense measure” to pass like making stealing a firearm a felony, Gov Moonbeam does not pass that one because of course that makes too much sense and that would be going after the actually criminals. They seem to enjoy targeting the law abiding tax paying good people of this state, rather turn them into the criminals it seems. Sad.

  19. Stefan S. says:

    Yet they ignore the explosive components he had.

    • MidGasFan says:

      You’re absolutely right! That, or the fact he had booby-trapped his car in the event he got in a shootout during his planned escape.

      What about the fact is illegal to break hotel windows? Shoot within city limits? Shoot at people? Murder people? He broke a literal dozen-plus laws, so more regulation would not have stopped this batshit-crazy whacko. Unfortunately, this is the price of living in a “free” society.

      Where are all the “tolerant” people saying we shouldn’t jump to judgement and ban Muslims when they drive, shoot(with real AK’s in Paris that has STRICT gun laws), blow themselves and others up, hack at people with machetes, cleavers and knives? They are all about not rushing to judgement then, but not when a psycho who happens to be white and American use guns to kill people, “oh no, it’s the guns. Think of the childrenz!”… In my opinion, he could have done more damage with a match trigger and magnified optics than the bump stock and EoTech.

      Realistically and sadly, to stop these animals, some of us must learn to think like these monsters in an effort to stop them in the future.

      And to TominVA: the reason you are confident the government will not come after its citizens in full force is because we have a means to protect ourselves, at last fur the time being. Your “solutions” would slowly erode that protection Thanks that away and all the other fredoms we enjoy go out the window.

      • Greg says:

        Url for “How to purchase a grenade launcher” is dead.

      • TominVA says:

        Hi MidGasFan,

        No, the reason I am confident is because our first amendment rights allow citizens to engage their government, made up of fellow citizens elected for a term, to ensure our rights remain. Also because Americans, in general, are the most perpetually unsatisfied group of malcontents in the world, possibly in history (maybe excepting Jews in first century Palestine). You name the issue, somebody’s complaining to local, state, and/or federal officials about it.

        Monsters? Have you read about Paddock? He sounds pretty ordinary. Maybe even a little pathetic. How do you identify them when on the surface, they are so much like so many other people?

        Much easier to scrap the ARs.