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Most people (even many serving in Special Operations Units today) don’t realize that until fairly recently “Special Operators” in this country and around the world made due with fairly standard military issue guns and gear.
Augmented only by a fair amount of guts and ingenuity. The Son Tay raid and Entebbe are two well known examples.
In the end, it has always been about the individual quality and character of the operators and teamwork. As we return to an era of more constrained resources that is something worth keeping in mind.
I got to sit with SGM(R) Tyrone Adderly, member of Red Wine element, during an SFA dinner and my team and I got to pick his brain. An amazing man. If I recall correctly they obtained those from South Africa.
He is a great man, I had the honor of having him as a G Chief for a UW exercise. We never got into any Son Tay stuff, since no one knew who he was until after he had left.
Actually it was the Singlepoint not the Armson OEG that was used on Son Tay – here’s a bit of trivia for you; nowadays they are hard to find – the reason why is the Singlepoint was on used on the movie Star Wars and all the reinactors grab them up
SF are not “Operators” unless they have previously attended OTC.
SF units ARE issued the same equipment as the regular Army, our M4, M9, M240, M2, PVS-14 etc all come from BIG ARMY money. It’s the gear that augments that that falls under USASFC (SPEAR, SOPMOD, etc). These programs are a relatively recent advent in SF history, prior to that a lot was through team procurement and mission needs.
SF also has the JOS program for equipment that can’t be issued to every SFODA but can be drawn and borrowed for an extended period of time based on mission need (ho most units get their Glocks, Commo etc.
Of course you are right. The term “Operator” is expressly associated with one specific element in SOF. And I would agree that “operator” is an often overused and misused term.
But since the SF soldiers who conducted the Son Tay raid were not graduates of OTC either…and I wanted to encompass them and all of the various “shooters” within SOF (past and present, US and Allied) I chose to misapply that term in this case. No intention to misrepresent but mea culpa to anyone I offended.
Your second and third paragraphs are also spot on. You know that and I know that. But what most conventional troops and civilians see or have seen is what is available downrange to SF / SOF, i.e.: different helmets, comms, multicam (long before others had it) non-standard vehicles and non-standard weapons like Glocks.
So, many soldiers think that what makes us “special” is the gear. I was just attempting to point out that it the people and always has been.
I get your gist, and didn’t mean to sound like a dick, which after almost 20 years of service means I should just not say anything haha.
My operator per peeve has to do with its extreme overuse by seemingly anyone to describe their time down range as operating, it’s getting old, to me at least.
The men on that raid set a precedent until then unseen in SOF, their equipment was space age at the time and arcane by modern standards. What set them apart was what sets the best units apart from any other, training, rehearsals, flexible planning, and adaptability to change. Good gear is an enhancement, good training is a necessity. Gaps or noted deficiencies in gear performance can always be filled with proper training, the opposite rarely holds true.
Having Bull Simons as you CDR doesn’t hurt either.
I think your earlier comment added some additional clarity and worthy detail to the discussion. In short, nothing that you said was in any way “dick speak” from my perspective.
I forget to piggyback on your mention of Bull Simons.
Exceptional Leaders at all levels has been something that SOF in general and SF in particular has consistently attracted since day one. That has also been one of our strengths.
From my experience that is thankfully still true today.
I love this stuff. Makes you realize how far we have come in equipping our troops. And just think those guys were the pointy end of the spear in the 1960’s.
Did I strike a chord? Sorry my comments punctured your fragile skin. I was referring to a military title, go operate whatever you want operationally buddy.
“If you have a problem… if no one else can help… and if you can find them… maybe you can hire… “
Thanks SSD.
Most people (even many serving in Special Operations Units today) don’t realize that until fairly recently “Special Operators” in this country and around the world made due with fairly standard military issue guns and gear.
Augmented only by a fair amount of guts and ingenuity. The Son Tay raid and Entebbe are two well known examples.
In the end, it has always been about the individual quality and character of the operators and teamwork. As we return to an era of more constrained resources that is something worth keeping in mind.
TLB
And the Armson OEG 😉
Miclo18d,
Extra points for remembering that piece of non-standard old school kit!
I got one for myself in the early 80s. Tritium is pretty dim now.
A great example of ingenuity and unconventional problem solving on the part of the Son Tay Raiders.
Strapped onto an XM177 it was still just mission enhancing not mission essential.
As you know, the men are always more important than any hardware.
TLB
I got to sit with SGM(R) Tyrone Adderly, member of Red Wine element, during an SFA dinner and my team and I got to pick his brain. An amazing man. If I recall correctly they obtained those from South Africa.
He is a great man, I had the honor of having him as a G Chief for a UW exercise. We never got into any Son Tay stuff, since no one knew who he was until after he had left.
Jon, OPT
Actually it was the Singlepoint not the Armson OEG that was used on Son Tay – here’s a bit of trivia for you; nowadays they are hard to find – the reason why is the Singlepoint was on used on the movie Star Wars and all the reinactors grab them up
Thanks Larry! I couldn’t remember the name and after looking at several sites they listed the Armson.
I do recall (if I recall it correctly) Tyrone telling me that they were listed in a magazine for hunting big game in Africa.
Beat me to it! A friend’s dad has an original Singlepoint on a shelf. Cool piece of kit.
Good points, however:
SF are not “Operators” unless they have previously attended OTC.
SF units ARE issued the same equipment as the regular Army, our M4, M9, M240, M2, PVS-14 etc all come from BIG ARMY money. It’s the gear that augments that that falls under USASFC (SPEAR, SOPMOD, etc). These programs are a relatively recent advent in SF history, prior to that a lot was through team procurement and mission needs.
SF also has the JOS program for equipment that can’t be issued to every SFODA but can be drawn and borrowed for an extended period of time based on mission need (ho most units get their Glocks, Commo etc.
Jon, OPT
Jon,
Of course you are right. The term “Operator” is expressly associated with one specific element in SOF. And I would agree that “operator” is an often overused and misused term.
But since the SF soldiers who conducted the Son Tay raid were not graduates of OTC either…and I wanted to encompass them and all of the various “shooters” within SOF (past and present, US and Allied) I chose to misapply that term in this case. No intention to misrepresent but mea culpa to anyone I offended.
Your second and third paragraphs are also spot on. You know that and I know that. But what most conventional troops and civilians see or have seen is what is available downrange to SF / SOF, i.e.: different helmets, comms, multicam (long before others had it) non-standard vehicles and non-standard weapons like Glocks.
So, many soldiers think that what makes us “special” is the gear. I was just attempting to point out that it the people and always has been.
TLB
I get your gist, and didn’t mean to sound like a dick, which after almost 20 years of service means I should just not say anything haha.
My operator per peeve has to do with its extreme overuse by seemingly anyone to describe their time down range as operating, it’s getting old, to me at least.
The men on that raid set a precedent until then unseen in SOF, their equipment was space age at the time and arcane by modern standards. What set them apart was what sets the best units apart from any other, training, rehearsals, flexible planning, and adaptability to change. Good gear is an enhancement, good training is a necessity. Gaps or noted deficiencies in gear performance can always be filled with proper training, the opposite rarely holds true.
Having Bull Simons as you CDR doesn’t hurt either.
Jon, OPT
Jon, +1 well said.
I think your earlier comment added some additional clarity and worthy detail to the discussion. In short, nothing that you said was in any way “dick speak” from my perspective.
De Opresso Liber!
TLB
I forget to piggyback on your mention of Bull Simons.
Exceptional Leaders at all levels has been something that SOF in general and SF in particular has consistently attracted since day one. That has also been one of our strengths.
From my experience that is thankfully still true today.
TLB
I remember this photo from a 1965 SF recruiting flyer.
I love this stuff. Makes you realize how far we have come in equipping our troops. And just think those guys were the pointy end of the spear in the 1960’s.
“Ich bin die Abteilung Schar…..I speak Danish, and have a working knowledge of German and English”
Nice!
do I have to go to OTC to “operate” my lawn mower….lighten up Francis…
Francis…
Did I strike a chord? Sorry my comments punctured your fragile skin. I was referring to a military title, go operate whatever you want operationally buddy.
Jon, OPT
Maybe it’s the lighting, but it looks like the two Split-A’s are wearing two different shades of OG-107.