The Army should be releasing the solicitation that will lead to the development of a family of camouflage patterns. Let us know what you think.
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I think it is a damn waste of money. Just adopt Multicam and be done with it. R&D already done. And it should be DoD wide. Get everyone on the same page, and stop wasting money on 10 different utility/combat uniforms.
waste of money. Give more funding to the Marine Corps
I think it’s a waste of taxpayers money there are more military needs than to change the uniform or BDU for the average soldier.
I think the money would be better spent on the soldiers needs and services.
This camo development is getting out of hand. The ACU was a huge mistake. The Marines for the most part got it right. The Army is going waste more money when funding is getting cut for good systems.
@ Oscar oorah
If it’s a true open and fair competition, then let it happen and let’s see what the results are. Multicam works extremely well. I am curious how A-Tacs will fair. My worry is that the military will go with some in house that is less effective as they did with ACU. I’m not a marine but do the tests and still give more money to the Marine Corps!
I’m pretty excited about the program, and think that it’s taking a step in the right direction, but I personally believe the military could gain more from a more comprehensive, systemic approach to concealment that was not just limited to putting new patterns on existing combat uniforms.
I’m a little concerned that the fiscal load on the supply chain will prove the program’s undoing. (as the responders before me have voiced)
How they never figured out that ACUs don’t blend in with anything during testing is beyond me. I appreciate that the Army is finally realizing that it’s an noneffective camo and doing something about but I hope that this isn’t just a way to kill Multicam based on cost or internal politics.
If the Army is willing to legitimately test and produce an effective camouflage pattern I’m all for it. Do I hope it’s Multicam? Yes. Would I take anything that works over ACU? Of course! They also need to consider two patterns for use in different environments. Any single pattern does not blend into everything well. We just want something that works!
Don’t waste the money on new camo.
Spend it on Medical Services, Mental Health Care, and other “Post-deployment” programs for our heros and heroines.
I’m all for the Multicam, wearing it now. My plan would be keep the ACU for the the non-deployed and non combat arms folks till it runs out. no need to give some office staff NEW equipment with the multicam, again let them keep ACU, DCU, woodland, or OD green stuff until no longer serviceable. Myself have all sorts of different style stuff, even with the “full” new issue of gear in multicam. BTW, with the multicam I have problems seeing guys standing 50 meters on a mountain, the ACU wearing attachments will blend on the Afghan terrain but at three times the distance
The Army should just adopt Multicam but true to form they will waste millions and still manage to fuck this up.
DoD should set a realistic wear out date for all current uniforms and organizational equipment, then set a mandatory date for issue of one US wide set of camo patterns (woodland, desert, etc).
This different work and combat uniforms for the field for each service has got to be the dumbest thing we’ve done in many years, and has caused more petty supply encumbering issues than anything else.
Oh- and using a decent pattern or patterns would be a hell of a good start.
That we have to even have a discussion of this shows how far off track we’ve gone, but leaders can change that. And we can all look nice in our new US uniforms, set apart by branch tapes, other insignia, and different hats.
A million here, ten million there, pretty soon we’re talking real money, and to think we have spent this much time, effort, and mental energy on these wildly different uniforms is ludicrous.
Wow, was it National Cynics Day or something?
I have more faith in the camouflage tests than the Carbine Replacement trials.
I hope they make a variety of patterns that are reversible. There are some outstanding designs out there and I hope the Army evaluates them and picks three good ones.
Have to say I agree with everyone who is on board with/for multicam. It has been proven in multi-terrain/various environments in Afghanistan extensively and of course, after some dumb realization the Army decided to give it to our warfighters in the Stan. The pattern was actually tested by a team that went out into hostile territory, on their own, with no type of security or patrol other than themselves and field tested it for days at a time.
And its not ACU, the pattern of camo of the Army’s ACU, which stands for Army Combat Uniform is, UCP: Universal Camoflouage Pattern… which, sucks ass. Screw this family of patterns, the only other pattern you would really need around the world at this point is one that works well in a tundra or other cold environment that blends in with the snow. Okay I can understand that there may be a need for an urban camo pattern, but honestly, which is something the Army is never good at choosing because they like to take care of their own and screw things up like they did with UCP, that camo will not be fielded. Like someone said at the top, ATACS would be interesting to see in an R&D environment or study, but we probably wont see that.
When all things are said and done, Multicam it is, they are exploding on the military/LE/Tactical market, and big props to Mr. Crye for doing so. Just look at the Spec Ops world and what they give contracts for, should be a lesson to the rest of the regular military what works and what doesnt.
Just go with Multicam and get rid of all the other stuff.
ATACS grain pattern wins my heart. It blows Army multcrap out of the water and the Marine sludge cammo away. Its the hardest cammo pattern I’ve seen and its got balls all over it.
Waste of taxpayers money. The only company that has an advantage in it is the company that gets the deal. Besides that it’s always the same brands that produces the gear and clothing. If it’s marpat/acu/AOR… doens’t make any diffirence for them.
Never understood why every department wants his own camo? “United We Stand” but not HELL NO are we going to wear the same camo from other American troops…sounds more like “divided we fall” to me.
Anyway…better use the money to keep people theyr jobs and have a couple of hard working soldiers more than again waste money on a camo when you still have good ones in the loop.
Is a waste of money as the UCP was
If the army had an effective camo The “all over the brush” wich win the 2000/2004 trials (better than scorpion/multicam)
They must adopt that camo and save money
There is a lot going for MULTICAM, however keep in mind that there are a lot of outher countries and units wearing it outside of US.
I guess that you could say the same for many other pattern, but Multicam is used on the largest scale.
It works fine in light, sunny areas, such as Afghanistan, but I am not sure if it works great in a typical European / Montana / Canada forest.
It will be a gigantic tender, with a LOT of cash changing hands – so the tests should be conducted – maybe someone will come up with a better solution? It’s been what, 6, 8 years since MC appeared? Technology moved on.
It’s not a question of whether we should change to Multicam, it”s why their isn’t an investigation of fraud and abuse in adopting the previous one. We’re still getting a coverup from all the media on who approved it.
So, how do we know we’re fixing a problem when we adopt this? Good for the troops, but no real explanation of what changes in decision making beyond the dog and pony show to pick three.
It’s sounds like a lottery now.
And I fully expect at least three restyles to get the fit and features optimized over the next ten years. Why? Because the program managers are on the up and out treadmill, there’s NO continuity oversight to prevent the next hot Command tracker from stamping his resume with another modification.
Everyone enjoying their berets? The April Fools announcement of Cav Hats was funny because it was so true.
We’d be better off with a CW5 in charge with arrest authority to remove anyone who tries to subvert the process.
Get rid of the Velcro and let us iron the ACU but make it with the Multicam pattern. With the current ACU I would go back to the BDU in a heartbeat. The ACU looks like crap in garrison after one washing and isn’t effective at all as camouflage in the field.
The U.S. Army has lost all sense of direction and credibility. First, they made the black beret standard issue. Big mistake. Then they replaced REAL combat fatigues with the ACU. Big mistake. Then they are replacing the iconic full dress greens/summer class-A with the blue-on-blue. The blue-on-blue is unnoficially known as the “funeral garb” because it is the iconic trademark of the honor guard at Arlington. Now they are introducing the caverlry stetson as standard issue. Who are the fighting? The Indians? Are sabres going to be standard issue among officers and NCOs? Are they bringing back the horse?
The Army needs to stop and get a grip. It would have made more sense if they stayed as they were, before all this crap. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
Take a look at the British Army: The reason why they have a higher credibility than the U.S. Army is because they look at what the U.S. Army is doing and avoid doing such. They actually use multi-cam. The Brits are not idiots.
With the rant behind me, the multi-cam with the BDU would make way more sense.
The Army tried to create a “universal” camo pattern. There is no such thing. One pattern cannot be effective in all tarrain. They tried to save money by fielding a single pattern. Also, they went with a 3 color pattern to reduce printing costs when most effective digital patterns use a 4 color pattern. All to save money.
Even the Marine Corps, with it’s limited budget, had to bite the bullet and fiels 2 patterns to be effective.
With the new search for a better camo, manufacturing and fielding of a new pattern(s), I wonder how much money will have been saved in the end?
My personal opinion is that the individuals responsible for the adoption of the Universal Camo Pattern were criminaly negligent. By adopting an obviously inferior camo, they cost (and are continuing to cost) the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars.
That being said, I feel the waste of money pales in comparison to the most vile offense.
America’s soldiers have been sent into combat with an innefective piece of equipment that in many cases made them more visible to the enemy.
In the end, I agree with Brian’s earlier post; “The Army should just adopt Multicam but true to form they will waste millions and still manage to fuck this up.”
As said before: There is no magical “ONE” universal camo…
But, I say go with Multicam for DoD-service-wide, stateside uniform, as well as a rapid-deployment uniform (since it works decent in most environments), and use Marpat/AOR patterns for Woodland/Desert specific AORs, and any other specific uniforms for speciallized AORs (tundra/snow, tropical jungle, urban, etc), with all Coyote Gear for everything.
Coyote Brown works well across the board; the color brown is the most prevalent color on earth, and you dont’ have to worry about “fashion matching” your uniform.
Also, give everyone the same cut of uniform. Enough with these different cuts/fits. It’s a utility/combat uniform, NOT a tux or dress. We don’t need civilian measurements; it’s a waste of time and money.
Basically, we’ll all look “uniform” with the same clothing, and if you are “special” or are going to a specific area, then you’ll get the camo pattern you need for that area, along with specific uniforms (combat shirt, FR, etc).
But what do I know… I’m just an Airman.
So you guys know, the Marines blew it on the Coyote PPE and pouches. They did it to save money but Coyote is a big contrast to either Marine pattern and highlights the torso.
I say just go back to the plain old OD jungle fatigues. Best damn uniform the Army ever had.
Forget Multicam. Marpat for eveyone and call it a day. Every side by side between Marpat and Multicam that I have seen has Marpat doing much better. Or lets go old school with some German WWII dot camo.
I guess so long as OCP works in Afghanistan and UCP kinda works in Iraq they’ve got time to work the issue.
I hope they incorporate new standards, such as near-IR detection, reflectivity problems, texture, pattern durability, etc that have been thus far unaddressed.
However, i also believe that the fiasco hasn’t been quite as bad as we make out.
When comparing patterns, remember that surface area plays a role.
Example: Marines wear Coyote gear, and only limbs and head are MARPAT.
Bluish/greenish/grayish UCP only blends with granite, but does the pattern make the difference in detectability the field for the Corps, or the brown gear?
If brown gear works good enough, I have an intermediate solution: adopt whatever they want, and dye or overpaint the UCP gear in some variation of brown/khaki, and use up current stock until the wear-out date.
Never going to happen.
However, whatever does happen in the next year or two there will result in a deluge of gear in UCP that nobody wants.
Be ready to adapt it to your needs if it can suit them.
I am on board with everyone. Save the money and adopt Multicam. It works.
If we hadn’t jumped to UCP in the first place we wouldn’t be having this problem now.
OD jungle fatigues or just OD BDUs would be fine. You want an instant camo? Do what us old-timers did and slap a bit of local mud on yourself. You’ll blend in just fine.
what’s the colors going to be pink,purple and yellow.that was a pc shot.
Actually all this should have happend years ago. To me it´s still a miracle how UCP could be introduced. Anyway I do not think that MC ist the best one can get. It appears to be the simplest option at the moment, but even MC doesn´t work in many enviroments. I personally regard a so called all terrain pattern a myth. So if one wants to be prepared for future battlefields one will obviously need more than one pattern. I can´t believe that NATIC with all it´s experts, based on current progress in camo development, will not able to come up with some feasible solutions that will be cheaper and even more effective than MC might ever be.
Just adopt multicam and call it a day. We already know it works well, and there is already a pipeline for it.
come on guys you know thats not how the government works. Adopting something that works would be to easy, they want to go for something hard and complicated like issuing something that sucks.
Lol anyways, my little brother is in afghan alongside a buddy Staff Sergeant, and they are being told to FLY HOME IN MC, and soon enough it will be the garrison uniform. Don’t quote me on this but this is what their higher ups are telling them. Little bro is a mech and doesn’t have MC just the CRAPCU, and is being told they will fly home in MC……soooo we might see it soon enough.
I’m surprised to see so many people argue that the effort is a waste of money. There’s no denying that UCP was a huge waste of money, but there’s also no denying that there’s an urgent need to replace it. If the next round of evaluations results in a camouflage pattern which offers good personal concealment and can save the lives of servicemen and -women, then it won’t be a waste of money. Mind you, that’s probably a very big “if”.
As for the knee-jerk reaction in favour of MultiCam, you all need to stop and think for a moment. Yes, it’s a very effective camouflage pattern – but it has been commercially available for six or seven years and, as Kangur pointed out, there are already a lot of other forces using it. Anybody who wants it and can afford it can buy it – including forces who are hostile to the U.S. Then there are all the lookalikes, some of which are manufactured in countries like Pakistan, which previously gave support to the Taliban.
Do you begin to see the bigger picture? An effective camouflage is an absolute must, but it also needs to be something unique and distinctive, otherwise you’ll never really know who’s who.
Notice how the FRACUs are more green and tan than than the ACU? That is a step in the right direction. The military in WWII had it right – tan, olive drab, and brown works almost everywhere to an acceptable degree of concealment. Take the FRACU, change foliage to olive drab, sand to desert tan, and the other color to a medium brown and call it a day. By the way, that would also be a “digital” version of the colors in the All Over Desert Brush, the uniform that did win the first Natick tests.
OD jungle fatigues + local mud = instant theatre camo.
Just make sure you use water in the mud, not camel piss.