Austrialpin- Sep 18

UCP-D:This Is What Happened The Last Time The US Army Created A Pixelated Camo Pattern

There’s talk of the US Army creating a “Digital MultiCam” pattern in order to avoid paying Crye Precision for a license to use their MultiCam camouflage pattern that has seen use in Afghanistan since 2010. Since some folks have such a short memory and think the Army’s scheme sounds like a good one, I’ll show you a couple of photos of the UCP-D variant. It’s from the last time the US Army created a pixelated Camo pattern. Prior to this beauty, the Army unleashed the Universal Camouflage Pattern on the world. We all know how that turned out. The Army conducted wear tests of UCP-D and MultiCam in Afghanistan. When it was all said and done, they turned to MultiCam. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

Below are two photos of UCP-Delta. One with an IOTV and one without.

UCP Delta with IOTV UCP Delta
Photos courtesy of PEO-Soldier

155 Responses to “UCP-D:This Is What Happened The Last Time The US Army Created A Pixelated Camo Pattern”

  1. Eric F says:

    That is Hideous

    • Joshua says:

      But does it work at all? Putting it against a black background doesn’t show its effectiveness.

      • Patrick says:

        I think the reception was less than warm if I recall

      • SSD says:

        Where were you when they did this the last time’? Guess how it worked.

        • doc_robalt says:

          My battalion 3/61 Cav was slated to wear that shit, and no it didn’t work, it sucked, it was so depressing to see our guys in 2/12 inf wearing Multicam and we got stuck with that shit. The most fucked up part is our battalion was supposed to get Multicam but our BDE CSM changed who got what because he wanted to take care of his old 2/12 battalion guys. Shows you where loyalties are these days.

          • Kory S says:

            I would of been happy to get UCP-D it is still better than UCP and you can sell them for a lot of money now.

            • SSD says:

              Awesome, “I wish I had gotten some so I could sell it…”

              • Kory S says:

                That is not what I am saying I would have been happy if I got UCP-D I did not day I would rather have UCP-D.

                • doc_robalt says:

                  You iknow ffunny thing is I dtried selling mine and nobody wanted them lol

                  • b_a says:

                    Are you one of the guys who put them up on ebay for unrealistic prices?
                    May start low and see where it goes?

                    I have a pair for wear and I like them.

                  • Kory Smith says:

                    How much were you selling them for?

      • Eric f says:

        Hey man if it’s ugly but works better than other options great

        I’m just saying that camo is effing UGLY lol

  2. Brandon says:

    Ah, the awesome ACUs splattered in pig shit.

    As I recall, there were also solicitations to perform overprinting on existing OCIE. Which would’ve devolved to locally produced stencils and poop colored krylon.

    Condemned to repeat history….

    • SSD says:

      That’s an Australian problem.

    • AssaultPlazma says:

      Whats with all the hate for Blue camo they clearly said its not for actual concealment

      • Kory Smith says:

        Because they could have just gotten an actual camouflage pattern instead of wasting money on blue crap.

      • straps says:

        …then don’t bother with it.

        Camo is expensive to print, and once you do the core clothing items, you get into a larger suite of personal equipment. Or you expend a bunch of bureaucratic energy (which ain’t cheap, either) dilineating what shall be worn with which. In which you STILL have a bunch of people walking around looking like ass, which detracts from the esprit de corps the non-camo was originally designed to instill. You’re back to square freakin’ one.

        The invisible (but nonethless tangible) line between folks who wear flight suits and those who don’t is a more complex leadership issue than a non-functional camo will address. Kinda like the US Army’s Black Beret fiasco…

  3. Blane says:

    My unit was one of the ones testing this pattern in Afghanistan in 2007 and it worked pretty well in Tora Bora as long as we stayed on the rocks otherwise it was useless. Looked like dirty ACUs, if this is what they are going to do just get some recent ranger school grads to donate theirs.

    • Philip says:

      Except this pattern wasn’t tested until 2009.

    • USMColddawg says:

      I saw this pattern when I was in Afghanistan in 2009 and 2010. The coyote brown addition was to match the Marines MARPAT color. This is better than the regular UCP. 😉

      • doc_robalt says:

        yea don’t know where you were, or who you were with to get that crap before we did.

      • SSD says:

        It wasn’t added to match MARPAT. Dude…you’ve got the “I really miss the Corps” in a bad way. Go sing “The Army Goes Rolling Along” three times as penance.

        • Kory S says:

          I would say they got the idea of coyote from Marpat though even if it was not to match Marpat.

          • SSD says:

            No, they got the idea of adding a brown by doing some analysis.

            • Kory S says:

              Yes but the specific brown they used is coyote which was chosen by the marines because it works in desert and woodland ect ect. So the army knew this and that is they probably chose coyote. I know why they chose brown I am just saying that is probably why they chose that specific brown.

          • threeseven says:

            Maybe it’s because sand is fucking brown

            • doc_robalt says:

              Know they were going off of what Soldier’s had been saying which was that the only time they ever noticed ACU’s (UCP) working a little bit was if they were so dirty they actually looked like colors in nature. So the Army said, “lets add Coyote Brown to make the ACUs look dirty durpa durpa” and thats how UCP-Delta was born.

            • Weekly Reader says:

              No, they chose it because the Marines did. Just ask the guy who sold his uniforms.

        • majrod says:

          SSD – the “I invented it and have to claim it” bug bites again.

        • USMColddawg says:

          Well, I read that it was. And if you got the true low-down for the reason; then so be it. Its a moot point now because it was not implemented force wide. Also, your analysis has been off and its not due to lack of information but that is how the cookie crumbles. Yes, I am a Soldier now but once a Marine; always a Marine and the Corps has the better pattern. Plain and simple; regardless of the tons of analysis showing other patterns that are better. But nobody is going to buy Ghostex. I only saw Multicam or US4CES as viable selections. Let us see what happens “dude”.

          • SSD says:

            I’m sorry, but report after report shows that MARPAT is not the best pattern, your bias has been obvious for quite awhile. In fact, it’s so evident that anything you say has zero merit.

            • Ethan says:

              I may be wrong but I believe he was referring to MARPAT vs. UCP, not MARPAT vs. the world. So, yeah, I thing I already know where you stand on that one.

            • Stan says:

              This is so funny… I spit milk out of my nose. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

              What needs to be answered is why if every one of these reports points to this super camo pattern the Army high command has made such a mess of this process. Maybe its better to be “lucky.” Isn’t that the word you used to describe the process that selected MARPAT?

            • Marputz says:

              I’m with you on this one.

    • Jason says:

      When you say “Tora Bora” in “2007” what exactly do you mean….?

  4. Snake says:

    Closest thing I’ve seen to a pixelated multicam is Eberlestock’s UNICAM II. The MARPAT/UCP-esque pixel look is there, the Multicam/Scorpion color fade effect is there and the colorway is very similar:

    https://www.eberlestock.com/UNICAM_ll.htm

    Imagine they try to license that next.

  5. Or maybe something like the X-Camo :
    https://www.google.fr/#q=x-camo

  6. Hodge175 says:

    I fear this is what the army is going to give us, a bastardized version of the CRYE patterns, when they told the public the were going to give the best the industry could give the US soldier. But someone does not like a certain company so we will get what the PEO Solider thinks is best, not what’s proven to be best.

    • majrod says:

      It might be true that someone hates a certain company but it’s just as true that some love it. Both groups don’t evaluate potential solutions objectively.

      It’s the same problem that got us UCP but many woill overlook it because they like the answer…

      It’s illuminating and should cause some pause in beating up the Army for being STUPID but hypocrisy is no problem for some.

  7. jack says:

    I don’t know where you guys see a problem with those two camouflages. IMO they work exceptionnaly well against this picture’s background, at least as far as boots and eyes are concerned…

  8. Joe says:

    Also of note is that part of multicam’s effectiveness is derived from the fades from one color to another that typically isn’t present in a pixelated pattern.

  9. Snake says:

    Joe, did you see the link I posted?

    • Joe says:

      Just did. I also said “typically isn’t present.” Usually when we’re hearing about pixelated multicam its just the standard screens with multicam colors.

      • SSD says:

        With MC your looking at 7 colors. I’ve heard DTP has 6. None of the current DoD pixelated patterns have that many meaning a new pattern that sheds common geometry with MARPAT/AOR.

        • Snake says:

          What’s the 7th color in MC? I count 6.

          You have a sand color that fades into an earth brown (2), a green that fades into a lighter green (2). Then the bone/off white and dark brown blotches/slugs (2).

          What am I missing?

          • SSD says:

            It is six, but they blend into multiple shades. So much for me being a good toadie for MultiCam.

            • b_a says:

              Dark brown and very light tan spots (2), dark green, light green, greyish green (3), brown and pinkish tan (2).
              That’s what I see.

  10. Kaos-1 says:

    X-camo is a registered trademark of Military Outdoor Clothing. There have been digital bdu’s/acu’s with the colors of multicam for years. Ranger Joes used to sell them years ago. The Army ain’t “creating” shit. This camouflage boondoggle is getting to the point of saying f#*k it and just wear jeans and a t-shit.

  11. Kory S says:

    I actually own some UCP-D next to thE coyote the tan looks white. Also this pattern could be good if they replaced the grey with ranger green and the foliage with a loam color. But still just get multicam already I am sick of this this should have been over in 2005.

  12. doc_robalt says:

    just in case none of you were tracking SSD already did a article on the disater that is Army Digital camouflages.

    http://soldiersystems.net/camo-for-afghanistan-the-rest-of-the-story/

  13. Steven S says:

    I was able to get some fabric in UCP-D awhile back.
    This picture I have gives a good look at the pattern.

    http://loyaltytotheend.deviantart.com/art/Latest-piece-in-my-collection-UCP-D-405170021

    In NIR, the darkest and 2nd lightest color comes up as a dark grey while the other colors come up almost white.

    • Kory S says:

      Same place I got my UCP-D planning to make a boonie out of it.

      • Steven S says:

        I am so behind on that stuff. I barely even started it.
        There is so many projects I am doing and along with my class work. I get little time finish up these little endeavors. I will finish it eventually though. I just don’t know when. :/

        • Kory S says:

          What are you going to make out of it?

          • Steven S says:

            Only a Boonie hat. I will be saving the rest of the fabric.

            • b_a says:

              A boonie hat made from 1000D Cordura? Is this really comfortable?

              • Steven S says:

                I haven’t finished it so I do not know for sure. However, considering the fabric is 1000D Cordura it probably wont be comfortable.

                It’s just a little project I haven’t gotten around completing.

  14. Steven S says:

    Also, I wouldn’t say the Army “created” a pixelated pattern. They haven’t really made any patterns for awhile actually. All they have been doing is recoloring existing patterns. I think it would be a discredit to the inventors/designers of CADPAT TW. If we continue saying that our services “created” these patterns.

    • SSD says:

      Oddly enough, the Danes actually aided the Canadians in developing CADPAT and they’ve since adopted MultiCam as a national pattern.

      • Steven S says:

        That is true. A Denmark group was hired to gather color data of the Canadian environment in the late 80s. Using that logic the U.S. helped the Canadians develop CADPAT since the basis of their work derives from LTC O’Neill’s work on Dual-Tex.

        Still, the fact is that the Canadians were able to digest the latest work in camouflage and then take it a step farther than anyone else before. The result is a pixelated pattern with a “texture matching” micro called CADPAT.

      • straps says:

        Wow. Just wow. Did not know this (about the Danish role in the first Digipats–only to jump ship for MC), and it makes me stabby.

        BTW best comments thread in a minute.

      • USMColddawg says:

        Many of our allies are using Multicam (e.g. British) and for some reason; I think that may be an issue in adopting it for us. Well, I was issued UCP in 2005 and ten years is around the corner. I guess that will be a good year to finally announce a replacement. They gave it a decade just like the beret.

        • SSD says:

          They’ve thrown everything including the kitchen sink as reasons to not adopt OCP as general issue. Allies use isn’t one of them. Btw, the Brits use MTP and not MultiCam.

        • Reverend says:

          I don’t see how that is a real argument. I mean we won’t be going to war with the Brits anytime soon.

  15. Dustin Downard says:

    The colors aren’t as important as how they’re used. Digitizing multicam, even if done well still won’t work as well. I looled at the Eberlestock pattern a while ago and it’s too busy. Multicam has spent years refining it’s shape and fade placement. Even the vertical swipes were shown to be a decent improvement. You can’t just digitize a pattern like the and call it good to go.

    Why isn’t falling back on 2nd place from the competition an option? My understanding was that Kyptek did quite well and the Kryptek patterns I own blow multicam away when used in the correct environment.

    • SSD says:

      As I said before, the commercial patterns from Phase IV are out the window.

      • Steven S says:

        Unless we can get the SecDef or POTUS to use the winner of the Phase IV testing through out the services.

        It’s very unlikely but it won’t hurt to try. So I’ll be sending them a email soon.

        • Kory Smith says:

          Maybe if we start a petition. I think at 60,000 signers congress has to look at it.

          • Dustin D says:

            I was thinking that. The Army only fixes itself once their stupidity gets national recognition.

            • SSD says:

              Nobody signed my last petition.

              • Steven S says:

                I did AND I shared it with the ICUS community.

                However, I do get your point. Everyone seems to be pissed off with camouflage fiasco but no one really wants to do anything about it. Even if it as simple as signing a petition on the white house website.

      • Dustin D says:

        When and why was that decided? I thought that the only thing out the window was MultiCam. It seems to me that in any competition, if the 1st place winner doesn’t get the prize, it goes to the 2nd.

  16. Bman says:

    I have been told there was never any Universal AOR pattern created by Natick here on SSD which I thought was accurate but Guy Cramer presented evidence to the contrary some time ago. I think SSD ought to explore this further to help clarify that. It is obviously much more visually appealing than UCP-D and I also think SSD should emphasize the point that the pattern was created SPECIFICALLY for Afghanistan’s different environments. Maybe MajRod was accurate on the SSD multicam bias. lol

    See the link: http://www.hyperstealth.com/coyote/

    Finally, if the Marines were working on a Marpat 2.0 and a transitional Marpat, and if they perform better than the AOR patterns in a more simple test method, then we have our answer government created patterns. That is of course if they refuse to use the results from the final phase of the testing process.

    • Steven S says:

      The AOR colorations were made by the U.S. Navy.

      No where in the article did I see it say that Natick made the universal AOR coloration.

      I am not fully aware of the whole Marpat 2.0 project. However, from previous comments by Cramer and SSD. It appears that they stop the whole project when the army started their CIE. I guess they wanted to see what the Army would come up with. I ASSUME they only had some early prototypes developed at best by the time it was put on hold.

    • Steven S says:

      Also, if you look in that article. Universal AOR with matching PPE performed not as great overall then Multicam with matching PPE. That along with we already spent so much on Multicam uniforms and equipment. The smarter way to go in that case would be to use multicam rather than Universal AOR.

      “SPECIFICALLY for Afghanistan’s different environments”
      The Army is not looking for a camouflage pattern for Afghanistan….

    • Dev says:

      Erm, I think you’ll find that the reason for the advocacy for MultiCam is because it’s already proven itself not just in test results but in theatre of war, and it’s already in circulation.

      Switching wholesale to MARPAT or AOR won’t be as cost effective.

      At least, that’s how I understand it. Correct me if i’m wrong, anybody.

      • majrod says:

        MC works, just like a bunch of other patterns do.

        Switching to common patterns always saves money in the long run. Ammo pouches, cordura production runs etc. for all the branches in a common pattern drives down cost. (There’s a reason more common pattern kit is cheaper than the boutique stuff). Common patterns are also the right thing to do tactically/OPSEC wise.

        The current stuff (UCP or MC) is going to wear out. Just make the wear out date in two years and select something that everyone is wearing.

        Problem solved.

        • SSD says:

          The Army plans on OCIE lasting longer than 2 years. They’ve informed industry that during this rollout they are not going to replace everything wholesale so it will take many many years for the transition to happen. Until then, soldiers will wear a combination of UCP, OCP and whatever the new pattern is.

          • majrod says:

            Granted.

            I just used the argument SSD has pointed out repeatedly that switching from UCP to ____ (fill in MC, phase IV winner or BFF pattern) doesn’t cost more because the equipment/uniforms have to bought no matter what and will wear out.

            Strange, SSD didn’t mention the OCIE caveat when making the same point.

            • SSD says:

              New Uniforms will be cost negative. New PPE won’t cost more but legacy camo gear and new pattern uniforms won’t necessarily work well together. That was demonstrated in the 2009 Afghanistan tests. Combining the two may end up making the Soldier more visible rather than less.

              • majrod says:

                “Combining the two MAY end up making the Soldier more visible rather than less.” (emphasis added)

                True!

    • Philip says:

      Beyond Tactical did a limited run of uniforms in what looked like a transitional/universal AOR type pattern. Don’t know if it was requested by NSW for test purposes or what; I can’t seem to find much information on it. It was featured in one of Guy Cramer’s Hyperstealth write-ups: http://www.hyperstealth.com/coyote/

      It would be interesting to see if the Army digital MultiCam is just an offshoot of this pattern…

      • SSD says:

        That was done many years ago during AOR testing. It was a developmental pattern and nothing more. In fact, it was around that time that a very large portion of the AOR user community abandoned the program and adopted commercial MultiCam. Beyond made all of the clothing with fabric provided by the customer.

        I have heard the Army Digital Transitional Pattern is an offshoot of either MultiCam or Scorpion depending on who invade spoken with. Although, I’d say that those who are referencing Scorpion are more likely closer to what is actually going on. I would hazard a guess that those calling it a MultiCam derived pattern are more casual observers of the process and don’t understand the possible fallout from knocking off a commercial product while source selection remains open on a related program.

        • Guy Cramer says:

          Crye has already created and patented a Digital Pixelated Version of Multicam, if the Army is attempting the same with Scorpion, they may just run into Crye’s IP.

        • Steven S says:

          If they do pixelate the scorpion or multicam pattern. I hope it’s not another example of a pattern being modified just to looked pixelated.

          The whole point of digitally created pixelated patterns is so you can have “textural” information in the camouflage.

    • USMColddawg says:

      That article provided great analysis. BTW, I am a fan of Guy Cramer but not SSD. 😉

  17. OC Tactical says:

    Maybe they should try some of the DG3 patterns the government already spent the money on to develop. Some are actually pretty good. Probably still have some of the fabric sitting around somewhere also.

    http://octactical.homestead.com/dg3j1.jpg

    Another Good one. Has a different shade of green then AOR2 and a coyoteish color in it.

    http://octactical.homestead.com/dg3n.jpg

    Same, but next to AOR2

    http://octactical.homestead.com/dg3k1.jpg

    Has a dark brown instead of the black and different shade of green.

    http://octactical.homestead.com/dg3m4.jpg

    Next to AOR2

    http://octactical.homestead.com/dg3m5.jpg

    Next to some MC

    http://www.octactical.com/dg3m1a.jpg

    • SSD says:

      Good catch but those were all test patterns that were rejected.

      • OC Tactical says:

        True, seems like the ones they reject are usually better then the ones they actually pick though. At least it would be a good start.

        • SSD says:

          Natick has already built their pattern and NATO testing began this week.

          • OC Tactical says:

            Fingers crossed. I just hope I don’t end up having to stock fabric, webbing, and loop in some new crap pattern. It’s taken years to unload the UCP and ABU I had sitting around.

          • Steven S says:

            Whatever Natick came up with. I hope it comes out well.

            • SSD says:

              I’m sure they’ll keep it a secret until the last possible second like they did with UCP in 2004.

              • Steven S says:

                Damn, that reminds me of something. It’s 2014! It will be the 10th anniversary of UCP.

                Shit, that may mean the Army will keep the new pattern under wraps for the birthday again. Hopefully they won’t wait any longer than that….

  18. SSD says:

    Yes, in the current, post Phase IV, case of the US Army’s quest for a new camouflage pattern, I have a MultiCam bias. The shake and bake option #3 is ridiculous. It’s like the “throw away” COA that guys developed when they are in school during MDMP. I’ve conducted my analysis of alternatives and I’ve made my case as to why I feel that adopting MultiCam is the best Course of Action for the US Army. To me, it’s the right thing to do.
    All through Phase IV I trusted the Army, who repeatedly told me that the goal was to identify the best performing camouflage solution. I kept an open mind and wrote repeatedly about all of the candidates as well as commercial alternatives that were not elected as finalists in Phase IV.
    Based on their recent actions, I feel that the Army has broken that promise to let science happen. I am now interested in salvaging a crappy situation that the Army’s leadership has put itself and its Soldiers in. To me, that means capitalizing on the OCP investment and fully fielding a pattern that we know works.
    For me, that is MultiCam or, if possible Scorpion, which looks and performs very closely with its commercial relative. Option #3 is a waste of money.

    • majrod says:

      SSD – Thanks for being honest instead of trying to make me look wrong for pointing out your bias.

      Finally.

      LOVE your coverage and you do a service for all.

      That said, I really want to see the Phase IV results so I can do my own interpreting of the results. Hope you or someone else can release how the tests were actually done and what the actual results were. Seems everyone has got a personal angle on this.

      Mine is I want Americans in the best camo possible.

      • SSD says:

        I’d love to see that as well but they are keeping it in source selection. I’d love for the Army to just announce Phase IV but that’s not going to happen. We go to war with the Army we have and right now that Army’s wearing OCP. Everything else is just agenda.

        • majrod says:

          Agree on Phase IV though I’m not giving up on the results. Maybe an FOIA request?

          The Army is wearing OCP in Afghanistan. It’s wearing UCP just about everywhere else (except for SOCOM).

          Yes, everyone seems to have an agenda…

    • USMColddawg says:

      Your bias on multicam has been obvious from the onset. If the Army provides the bookend patterns; then I will be satisfied with the decision but a one uniform pattern is a no-go; just like UCP. I understand since we are the largest force we are trying to consolidate uniform costs (such as with the ASU) but I think if managed and procured properly; savings can be achieved.

      • SSD says:

        My bias toward MultiCam? Says the guy with USMC in his name.

        I’m going to hold your feet to the fire on this one. Prove it.

      • Stiggy says:

        Did that idiotic USMC constant cock measuring come issued at boot? Even a young and dumb paratrooper such as myself can differentiate between esprit de corps and plain ignorance. Congrats, your Corps took a Canadian derived pattern and recolored it. It’s not the best pattern out there, scientifically proven. You’re in the fucking army. Embrace it, you look like a fool boasting about the Corps as if the army is nothing.

        There’s nothing wrong with being proud about whatever branch one serves in. But don’t delude reasoning over showing off your cool USMCness. No one here cares. Be humble and professional, who gives a damn what the world thinks. I simply do not understand this whole advertising being a Marine or anything else for that matter. That’s not esprit de corps, that’s just being a pompous dick and painting a target.

    • Explosive Hazard says:

      I share the same sentiment but I hardly see it as bias, more like logic. In the present, now that we know phase IV is out of the window thanks to big Army’s inaction, we are left with 3 COA’s that suck but buying the rights to MultiCam is the best of the 3 COA’s by far. Especially if it allows the Army to develop/use bookend patterns for arid and woodland/tropical. Fiscally it makes the most sense, scientifically it makes the most sense, and it even wins the fashion contest among the public! 24 million is cheap all things considered.

      • Reverend says:

        I have a sneaking suspicion they will adopt some pattern we have never seen that looks like a Multicam abortion.

        • Stiggy says:

          Much like the fake stuff they printed IOTV webbing with to cut costs. Looks like some WW2 duck hunter crap.

  19. Lcon says:

    Seriously Penny wise Pound foolish, Just pay Crye! it would be cheaper in the long run enough of this mere billions in a time of budget slaughter.

  20. HOLLYWOOD319 says:

    Not a rocket scientist. But more of a rocket surgeon apparently…

  21. SubandSand says:

    *Hands up in the air* Fuck it! Tru-Spec’s All Terrain Tiger Stripe for everyone, buy it off the internet with your clothing allowance.

  22. Alan says:

    EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

    Yep, every single time there is a article on SSD, it has the longest comments section of any other article!

    And, within those comments,some very good points are made, but, more importantly, opinions, by Soldiers them/ourselves are voiced…WHY OH WHY can’t every SSD article on the Army camo soap opera be sent, mandatory, to each and every Officer and D.A. Civilian involved with this bullshit fiasco so they can not only get good,solid information,but see what Soldiers have to say, and what THEY would like to wear,since they (myself included) are the ones who must use it,and whose life depends on it!!!!!!!!!

    Okay, my BP is down now,and I feel dizzy & lightheaded. Rant over. Pouring another glass of Brandy and finishing the rest of SSD.

  23. Mike says:

    Wow, I started to respond earlier and stepped away. There was only two comments at the time, but I knew I should reload before posting. Wow.

    “but guacamole/AOR2 already exists. I mean if they give it to CBs no reason the Army couldn’t use it. Or the Army could stop pretending that it cares about the fee, drop the show, and pay the damn fee for something that works for them and will save them spending MORE on UCP garbage coming into the system just to get trashed. Caleb and Gregg have done more for our armed forces than the other profiteers in the industry could dream of. I don’t mean that as a dig, I know a lot of manufacturers give back, but people act like giving the low amount Crye Precision is asking for is some kind of crime…”

  24. 32sbct says:

    Well one thing is for sure, we have been wearing MultiCam for over four years during time of war. That is as real as it gets. If there was a problem with it we’d of heard it from the Soldiers, and I’ve never heard a complaint about OCP. Enough of the testing. If the fee for MultiCam is the show stopper, go with Scorpion. All the OCIE we have in MultiCam could still be used, the patterns are close enough. It is the best solution that still has a chance of getting done.

    I still find it hard to believe the soap opera this has turned into. If anyone had told me this was how it would go I never would have believed it. I still wonder how this will end…and when it will end. This is like a never ending story.

    • SSD says:

      I actually believed the Army.

    • majrod says:

      The next war might not be in the same place the last war was.

      If we were fighting in Antarctica should we go to overwhites for the whole Army?

      • 32sbct says:

        majrod, I don’t understand your point. No we don’t know where the next war will be but MultiCam will work in Korea, the middle east, central asia, Pakistan, Europe etc. They are probably the most likely places where we may be utilized in an actual fight. About the only place it would probably not work well enough is in a jungle but other patterns such as MARPAT woodland or the Navy’s AOR 2 would work.

        And yes, if we were to fight in Antarctica, then I want overwhites for the whole Army. My point is UCP is useless everywhere, MultiCam is already in use, and it will work just fine in most places where we are likely to fight. If we are just going to provide humanitarian aid, peacekeeping in a permissive environment, etc. then anything will work, even UCP. If we worry about covering every possible scenario, we will get nowhere.

      • b_a says:

        Hunt down an ice bear or rob an Eskimo?

  25. Hodge175 says:

    The America Army soldier deserves better and the the officers in charge of this program refuse to give it to them. Soldiers want a uniform they can be proud if and that may actually save their lives one day. No one in the Army seems to care about that anymore. They will force what “THEY” want, not what’s been proven in combat or in over 4yrs of testing.

    • majrod says:

      as I said before,

      “The next war might not be in the same place the last war was.

      If we were fighting in Antarctica should we go to overwhites for the whole Army?”

      I noticed you noted the “pride” answer before “what works”. That’s what got us in this situation in the first place…

    • Jason says:

      Agreed. The officers and gov’t employees who work in that office should be ashamed of themselves.

      • majrod says:

        Agreed! As well as those that would copyright a pattern for a specific branch and make their peers go to war with substandard tools of war.

        Could you imagine anyone copyrighting the M1 Garand, a helmet or a boot and prohibit other branches because an observer might be confused on what branch the servicemember is in.

        The Army was SUPREMELY stupid in adopting UCP but the problem didn’t start there.

  26. Stoney says:

    I don’t care if it’s ugly. I don’t care if it’s better than UCP. I don’t care if it gets a Congressman re-elected or a General his second star. What it is not is the most effective camouflage pattern family found through extensive testing that available for ALL branches for the low price of $639,863.99. And to compromise is frankly Horse Sh*t.

  27. Crusty Groundpounder says:

    I dont care what you call it, and I dont really care what it is anymore. I am gonna vent a little but I am goddamn tired of the fucking combat fashion show that has existed since MARPAT got rolled out. I dont really care who gets the blame but this monumental epically retarded, waste of money, bureaucratic shitshow needs to stop. At this point I would by fine with returning to BDU, ERDL, shit the ole Pickle suit would be better than this pog’d up fucking nonsense. Seriously who gives a shit? Pick a pattern, and be done with it big Army. You picked one that didnt work and spent a bejesus amount of money that could have spent a zillion other places. Seriously is this committee run by a bunch of geeked out 2LTs? The Army has fucked this up so bad congress has gotten involved, and we all know how great they are at making decisions. Its time for the fashion show to end. Thanks.