Raven Concealment Systems posted this on their Facebook page recently. It is one of the best things we have read in awhile. We’d say that their sentiment is shared by many in industry. Be aware there is some rather frank language in there. Verbatim…
I am appalled that I even have to compose this message.
With increasing frequency, we are receiving phone calls and emails from people who either imply or directly state that they are a member of the special operations/intelligence/federal law enforcement community, when they clearly are no such thing. Usually they are doing so with a hand extended, looking for some sort of discount, expedited service, and/or free “T&E” gear.
I’m not sure if these people think we’re stupid, or if they are really just so caught up in their Walter Mitty alternate reality that they believe their own lies, but we are completely fucking fed up with it.
In an attempt to reduce or eliminate such contact in the future, we are posting this “Public Notice:”
We do extensive business with the military special operations/intelligence/federal law enforcement community. We know how those guys communicate with vendors. Here’s a hint: They do it from email addresses that end in “.gov” and “.mil”, not “navyspecwarfare@xxxxxxx.com”. If you email us from an address like that, we are going to know right away that you’re a lying piece of shit.
Whenever we get an email or call from someone making claims to be from ‘XYZ’ agency or ‘ABC’ unit that makes our Spidey Sense tingle, we pick up the phone and call one of our buddies who ACTUALLY WORKS FOR SAID AGENCY/UNIT/GROUP/etc and ask them if you’re legit. Vetting someone is really easy in a community that small.
Our Operations Manager is a licensed private investigator, with a background in both federal investigation and military law enforcement. When we get guys falsely claiming to be ninja-force 17, we have him run said idiot to ground. He digs up every bit of that person’s personal information he can find, from criminal background to really embarassing pictures that are floating around Facebook.
Here’s our take on it: The guys you are attempting to impersonate take that sort of thing REALLY fucking seriously; therefore, WE TAKE IT REALLY FUCKING SERIOUSLY. If you are harboring any stupid ideas about calling us and claiming to be someone you are not, here’s what you can expect to have happen:
First, we will tell you to fuck off.
Next, we will dig up every bit of info on you we can find.
Then we will use said info to whatever ends we find suitable. Best case scenario is that we will use that information to publicly embarass you, but more likely we will forward that info to the community which you have claimed to be part of. If your claims violate the “Stolen Valor Act” in even the slightest way, we will assist in your prosecution.
I apologize to all of our loyal customers for such a vulgar rant, but I can only imagine how many other companies (who do not have the same resources at their disposal) are being duped by these lying dick-douches. Please share this to help spread the word.
Finally someone has addressed this issue! The one thing I’d like to add is how so many guys love the cool guy gear and looking the look, yet theyve never seen their buddy with legs blown off from a fuckin EFP! For all the cool shit, there is the dark dirty side that gets taken for granted. Call these fake bitches out!!
I wanted this up toward the front.
Here is the issue…
People are violating the law and portraying themselves as representatives of the military and law enforcement to companies (Not just RCS) in order to obtain free samples of products.
This is WRONG.
It doesn’t matter if the offender plays milsim or dress up or is just a plain old window licker.
If someone was trying to steal from you, you’d be pissed too and if you are a member of one of the organizations that these perpetrators are saying they are from, you’d be pissed all the same.
If you don’t get any of that, and don’t see that this is a problem here, I have gotta ask you, “wtf?”
I’m glad I’m not in America just too much collective wanking going down on all sides over there! It’s really sad for you guys, so what happened to balance and commonsense? Even many of the legit operators are getting carried away with issues of self image! Hollywood is a damn curse!
Thank You
Well said!
To: The Folks at Raven Concealment Systems
Take heart guys and don’t let your frustration level get so high that it fucks up your blood pressure or sperm count because absolutely nothing that you say or do will clean up the gene pool. Ergo, go about your business and live long and prosper. Do what you do best which is deliver outstanding product and outstanding service.
It’s also a felony to impersonate a member of the armed forces, federal agency or law enforcement.
If you want to fight the fight get as many documents as you can – “Sir we’ll be happy to do business with you. Please send us your (whatever doc you need) if and when you get it hand it off to your local PD or Feds as you prefer.
It is a pain the ass – no doubt – but blowing a gasket means those that truly needs you may not have you around.
Jungle recce likey
Gentlemen,
I am not MIL/LE, and I fully and completely support your stance on this issue. While I purchase equipment recommended on this site, I do so knowing who I am and who I most certainly am not. Your anger and frustration is appropriate, but as the other comment said, do not let it drag you down. For all those that would seek to impersonate the fine men and women in our Armed Forces, there are more of us that simply quietly admire, thankfully acknowledge, and genuinely respect those that have served, are serving, sacrificed and given it all for us.
As such, on behalf of those of us that do not seek to impersonate nor diminish the sacrifices of those fine men and women in uniform for our Country, please bitch slap those posers!
Love it. It’s about time
It sounds like Raven hasn’t put a protocol in place that would weed out these type of inquires from the start. Simply require a letter or documents to prove affiliation to anyone making this type of request. Make life simple for yourself and your customers will thank you for not having to deal with the angry, bitter customer service staff who wrote this letter. I cant imagine ever sending an open letter to my customer base, displaying this type of rage and resentment.
Take a lesson from recently famous Paul Christoforo.
I don’t think their customer base (meaning people who actually buy things from them) will be offended by this…
I have to agree with Am coment. I think this kind of rant is un called for and displays a arrogant attitude of we know everyone and we are not above having a employe spend time harassing such people. Wanna bes and possers are nothing new.to the industry and will continue regardless of Ravens rants and raving, it just paints a picture of a un proffesional company with such a rant and in such a public forum.
And yes customers notice these things, image is everything.
Their customer base will do nothing but applaud them for this. Image is a lot of things, and they just boosted theirs to the people that matter.
Good Going Raven.
Won’t hurt ’em in the least. Matter of fact, I’m gonna think about placing an order because of it.
I am thinking about placing a request for free gear. I am part of The Joint Scuba Sniper squad. Thinking maybe they have some free demo gear for us to test for our underwater concealed carry missions.
I would think that professionalism and quality is what appeals to MIL / LE customers. Anyone placing an order simply because they like the bravado of this letter is probably just that type of poser.
@AM
Mr. Christoforo is a completely different industry and pissed off an entirely different crowd.
Your comparing gamers to mil/le.
RCS posted here amongst those people that should be capable of understanding the frustration that occurs with that level of douche who commits fraud.
Is the post unprofessional? That is something RCS’s admin will have to decide.
There are times when in good company one is allowed to vent and at other times in mixed company that one is allowed a level of force to make an example out of an assclown.
I don’t “like” products or companies for contests or if I haven’t used their products and personally advocate them. I know nothing about Raven Concealment, but today, I “liked” them.
I wrestle mountain lions so this has absolutely no baring on my life.
The first rule of Ninja-Force 17 is you don’t talk about Ninja-Force 17!
One Shot Tactical has a sign on their counter that reads “PLEASE DON’T TELL US YOUR JTF2, CSOR, SEAL, DELTA, NINJA, SUPER SCUBA RECCE SNIPER STORIES!!!! WE’VE HEARD BETTER AND WON’T BELIEVE YOU ANYWAY.”
I Agree about the bull. But I get four personal emails for every aosa…
That comments was lost on about 90% of my readers, but I’d have to say that you are very blessed to have such a low ratio.
I am a super SEAL EOD ATF FBI JTTF NCIS SWAT JSOC JTF2 NINJA SAMURAI SNIPER BAD ASS MUTHA FUCKA… and I endorse this message.
Outstanding! Kudos to Raven Concealment. I’ve never needed an excuse to use their great products, but I’ll be looking their way all the more now.
Can’t think of one thing this Raven has that a mil or contract operator would even need or want. Just buy your stuff elsewhere.
I have a RCS holster and mag pouch. I like companies like RCS and the guys and girls at GGT who aren’t afraid to say how it is. Enough of this extreme political correctness.
RCS has enough business that they don’t care a bunch of poseurs and free hug givers are not going to order their product and most likely wouldn’t want their products represented by them anyways.
Lemmy said, and I quote ” I make love to mountain lions, Sleep on red-hot branding irons, When I walk the roadway shakes,Bed’s a mess of rattlesnakes, Voodoo child, black cat bone, Scratch your back, hear you moan, Get me up, you go down, tall building, single bound”
I think we can all learn a lot from Motörhead.
AMEN!
I think it’s fookin’ hilarious, but not too professional. Wonder what finally set them off?
Probably one too many assclowns looking for a handout and pretending to be a legitimate user. It gets old.
Handouts and seeding is industry 101. We all get frustrated with it, we have to do it, but I agree with some of the comments, get legit docs and a gpc card form and if they do not return it…charge them.
As far as the loss of bearing and the f-offs…I have found that when you show a loss of bearing like that on a public forum, it gets flipped on you and they go to your competition…Which is growing due to the delivery times of Raven. Through six degrees of separation, it can be harmful.
“just sayin”
Those who make the claims and solicit the freebies didn’t and won’t pay any attention to the screed.
Does anyone travel the Interstate at the posted speed limit?
I spat out coffee when I read “dick douches”
I like the tactical/ military gear companies because they just don’t mice words. It’s a great community because the lack of tolerance for bullshit, so I would expect no less.
hehehehe.. that’s good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
No ones asking for freebies. I think this company is stuck on themselves. Every operator I know that’s SF or spent time in recon used Blackhawk and now switched to Safari.
Something smells…
One other thing I will let the other 500 or so private contractors your not interested in business if is not from Mil or LE.
I can’t let this thread go! Pisses me off! You know 90% of the readers here are not military, exmilitary or LE . I work with a private contractor or do consulting and I haven’t been military for 15 years and everything on here interests me and my buddies and is for us and we are no enlisted or deputized.
Sean- If these two posts are directed at RCS, I have to ask where you came to your conclusions? Nowhere did we say we weren’t interested in business from guys who carry guns for a living.
The guys we are not interested in doing business with are the ones claiming to be something they are not, in an attempt to obtain free gear. I would have thought the f-bomb ridden rant above made that pretty clear. Perhaps reading it again would help?
Any questions, please ask.
Tom Fineis
Director of Sales & Marketing
Raven Concealment Systems, LLC
Well Done!!!!!
Please, please, PLEASE post contact info. That’s the best way to ensure that everybody knows that it really, really does hurt to ask.
There are those in the tactical industry that would respect many of the comments Raven Concealment Systems makes, never the less say the presentation may not be professional, however right they are. I am not one of these people.
As the owner and founder of 215 Gear and actual Special Operations member, I can attest to their statements. The amount of time wasted in even reading email or seconds wasted on the phone, listening to what might be a legitimate customer question or comment, to then “reveal†themselves a fake, airsofter, or just plain homo; makes a company want to not deal with customers direct.
Raven Concealment Systems hit the nail on the head, no person actually doing job “X, Y or Z†has to name drop in the conversation, the vendor should already know who they are. If you are asking for a “T&E sample†your unit is not special enough to use any such wording in its official name and you should feel like an asshole for asking.
I and those I have been fortunate enough to work around spend much of our careers lying to people about what you do for a living, let alone telling someone over the phone for a free hand out. The real Members emulate the words “quiet professional†and don’t look for acclaim or freebees.
At 215 Gear, we do not associate with airsoft or any similar homosexual game/act. We do not make our product in K-12 or extra fat. The only reason a manufacturer would is to cover the market of kids and fakes running around the woods, pretending to be something they are not. It is nice to know another USA manufacturer stands by their principals, rather than just make a quick sale.
Today my good sir you are my hero.
I have no doubt…having “busted” several wannabe SpecOps/Seals/Military guys as a news reporter, and having a TON of current and former operators as good friends i’ve supported all my life…that such actions CAN rile up supporters of the military.
But, 215, be a BUSINESS MAN, which means selling a product to a marketplace of buyers. If you and others only want buyers from a certain profession, I say GOOD.
There are plenty of reputable companies who will be happy to take the millions of dollars of business that airsofters, MilSim’er and even hunters/shooters/shooting sportsmen and women are willing to spend. We like your products because they WORK, they LAST and, for the most part, they are AMERICAN MADE.
The companies who do this make themselves cheap in the process, and that should worry their “real” customers, no matter what they plan to use a company’s wares for. A suggestion: that those servicing the needs of “quiet professionals” could learn a few things from their customers…keep your mouth shut, and let your products speak for themselves, regardless of the consumer.
You’ll sell a lot more, and you can stack the wannabes up in the corner of your quiet office for later disposal!
“At 215 Gear, we do not associate with airsoft or any similar homosexual game/act. We do not make our product in K-12 or extra fat”
Wow… you know what they say though, the most homophobic people are the ones still living in the closet supressing their own desires. Perhaps he should have stayed in the service until DADT got repealed and he would have a happier life.
Regardless this is totally offsides and I suggest everyone boycott this bigoted company. Regardless of your feelings about Airsoft or re-enactors, hollywood prop-shops, or even just enthusiasts this is no way to go about your business.
How’s that homophobia working out for you?
So much for the “professional” part.
Wow, nice rant. Looks like i now know 100% where not to spend my hard earned money.
J
I can see RCS’s point and agree with their expressed views.
However, your generalizations about airsoft and similar “homosexual acts” is extremely disappointing. Some civilians play those sort of games because they would rather run through the woods and simulations rather then sit on a couch with a controller in their hands. As long as the player isn’t falsely representing themselves as mil/le to a gear company then I have to think that said gear company would enjoy the extra profit without the hassle.
Is a little fast cash such a bad thing when your customer base is limited as it is?
Not when half of them are back ordered, blame th walts and the gays for the manufacturers ineptitudes, vitriol spewing turds.
You’re a cock, in this economy your biggest customer base is walts, all the more for us i suppose.
So… just one quick question…..
What about gay and lesbian serving members of your own armed forces? Are they not allowed to use your store?
I really do hope you treat all your customers like this, it will do amazing things to your sales.
In the original post, RCS has a point. You, Mr 215 gear, are just a homophobic unprofessional asshole hating on airsofters because you think it nets you cool points.
I don’t think that that’s directed at gay/lesbians and more so to people like these http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2026/cimg0282rl9.jpg. Who are in fact gaying it up in a non sexual orientated way.
Really?? he used the term ‘homosexual’ in a derogatory way. That IS directed at gay and lesbians whether you like it or not, and your use of the phrase ‘Gaying it up’ isn’t much better, either. Trying to argue his use of homosexual isn’t homophobic is ridiculous. Also, by the way Matty, feel free to go tell Col. Danny McKnight, Matt Eversman (who’ve both done airsoft in the US) that they’re ‘gaying it up’ and see what they have to say to you.
Good job mucking up an extremely legitimate concern. RCS is 200% right on & no matter how the words may hurt some people ears, straight talk is EXACTLY what our country needs. Posers @ the minimum needs to serve jail time including fines. However, your company rant is uncalled for. Who you do business with is up to you & hope that attitude continues to work for you folks. Curious as to how you classify the average firearm enthusiast or how about current/ex-military who are involved in airsoft? I guess these folks aren’t tacticool enough for your company. You know Travis Haley uses airsoft for training right? A blow below the belt there 215 Gear. Its really sad to see a USA company stooping to such a low level.
As an airsofter and an ex-British Royal Military Police instructor I can’t help but take offence at these comments.
I FULLY agree that anyone trying to pass themselves off as serving military (of any country) is an ass and a fraud. If they are trying to obtain free samples then that is even worse. If that is illegal in the USA, then I would totally agree that if possible they are prosecuted to the maximum possible degree.
But, I now know for sure that there’s no way in hell I would buy, recommend or even mention your products from now on. I know people who have your kit and I’ll be telling them the sort of company that they are supporting by using your equipment. As said by other people, a large part of your customer base is made up of airsofters and I personally hope that not a single one of them buys from you again.
HERP A DERP, I’M A HOMOPHOBE WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT AIRSOFT, HERP A DERP. – Sincerely yours, owner@215tactical.com
When you’re ready to get your head out of your ass and learn a thing or two about the MASSIVE (read: worldwide) consumer base that is airsoft, we’ll be waiting. Protip: Especially in the United States alone, a large percentage of airsoft/MilSim enthusiasts… ARE military/LE, or former members of said communities. So thanks to your own ignorance, you’re insulting a lot of the very same people you’re supposedly representing.
The internet: Letting ignoramuses post stupid crap they know nothing about since 1995.
Must say I will be steering as many of my shooting buddies and anyone else I can away from 215. Your stuff is well made, but equal quality, American made gear can be gotten from a dozen other companies.
I will patronise them and steer my buddies TO 215 to pick up your slack. It will all work out in the end 😉
You realize people like Ret. Col. McKnight of Blackhawk down fame participates in one of the largest airsoft events in the US at Ft Knox Zussman training center anually right? Apparently you doubt how many Mil/LEO’s participate in airsoft or use it as a training tool.
I’m an ‘airsofter’ (Hence the callsign). I may or may not be a ‘homosexual’ (You’ll never know). I also qualify as ‘extra fat’.
I was also a section leader of a Naval Security Force Detachment during Operation Desert Storm at ASU (Administrative Support Unit) Bahrain (now NSA Bahrain) from June 1991-July 1992.
(Full Disclosure: Although I served in a designated combat zone, the only ‘combat’ I saw was fighting drunk Marines, soldiers and sailors.)
Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance…and almost by your illiteracy.
Wow!! I am 45 and play MilSim airsoft for fun. I think only a HOMO crybaby would CALL OTHER PEOPLE THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NAMES FOR NO GOOD REASON?? I and many,many friends will make sure we put the word out about the boycutt of your measely pitiful company. Thank you. That is all………
I am somewhat taken aback by Raven Concealment System’s Rant, and why they feel they need to address this issue and with such blatant language, or even address it at all in a public forum. We are all adults and as such should use decorum when addressing those of lesser intelligence. Any inquiries are probably the inane childish attempts of some foreign intelligence group at espionage.
Your rant really was not in your company’s best interest.
+1
I think you should rant like this the first time someone asks you for one at SHOT.
No balls if you don’t
Yes, that must be it…a foreign intelligence service is attempting to gain he trust of RCS. What nefarious plot must be afoot!
There’s the alley…..and there’s the oop! LoL
+1
how did you guys know there was a “ninja force 17″…? you’re not supposed to know that.
I guess because  the badass secret squirrel connected Raven staff are so busy busting and outing posers that they are too busy to get caught up on those backorders.Â
Maybe you should get that PI of yours to do some order pulling and fed ex work instead. Just saying.
My name is Michael Goerlich, and I am the owner of Raven Concealment Systems. I am also the author of “the rant.”
As some of you have stated, poseurs are nothing new to this industry. I do not think that we are unique in our exposure to such idiocy. However, I don’t think the average consumer is aware of just how prevalent this sort of offensive behavior is, and how much of a time thief it can be to a small business.
My office staff and I discussed whether or not to post my commentary for a whole day. I talked to a couple other guys in the industry, asked their opinions, and based on that decided to drive on and post it. This was most certainly NOT a “loss of bearing.” We said what we felt needed to be said, and judging by the response we have gotten from other people in the industry, we said what everyone else was thinking, too.
RCS is not a faceless corporation. It’s a bunch of guys who love to shoot, who love to make gear, and who take immense pride in the level of service we provide to our customers. We’re also pretty proud to provide gear to the “professional communities” that we do. I spend all day being professional and courteous on the phones, forums, blogs, and via email, but I have no issue showing the public a more personal side of our company from time to time.
It was not my intention to offend anyone with my comments; it was simply to (hopefully) reduce the number of these idiots interrupting our work and wasting our time through deterrence. Only time will tell how successful we were.
Regular Guy:
I recognize the fact that some people may go to competitors based on me sharing my opinion on this topic in the manner I did. However, I’ll happily lose a handful of customers who are offended by “the f-word” if it means that I gain thousands more who respect and admire the fact that RCS doesn’t tolerate people disrespecting our servicemen and women.
From your posts, it sounds as though you are involved in some manner in the firearms industry. Rather than snipe at me from behind an anonymous screen-name, how about having a beer with me at SHOT show? Shoot me an email @ michael@ravenconcealment.com and we can put it on the calendar.
No balls if you don’t… 😉
O Really:
Regarding your disparaging comments about our back-orders, I appreciate your concern. However, our wait times have been steadily falling for the past few months as our staff has grown, and many of our customers are receiving their orders in as little as two weeks. And while our quoted lead-time is still 16-18 weeks, nearly everyone’s is being shipped in significantly shorter time than that.
Michael,
While I don’t agree with all of the way you put your original message, I doubt that there are many self respecting airsofters that would disagree with you.
As I’ve posted in my reply to J, I’m an ex-forces instructor and people like the ones you describe do nothing but piss me off and make my blood boil.
But, please don’t tarnish us all and assume we’re all a bunch of fakes and wanabees. I don’t know much about the US airsoft scene, but here in the UK there are a high proportion of guys who play who are serving or ex-serving military. To give you an example, at the last game I attended there was an ex-para and an ex-marine swapping stories from the Falklands war. A younger ex-para who has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan chatting to me and a serving military medic. That was just from a group of about a dozen guys in a field of roughly 150 players.
Again, you’ll get nearly 100% support from the airsoft community on this, BUT only if you tone down the rhetoric and distance yourself from homophobic idiots like J.
@RCS
I would enjoy having a beer with you at SHOT. As the owner of a thriving Airsoft business who a very large section of my players are ex-Mil, LE or even active duty . We even have provided our venue for LE to practice and run their trainings.
We respect our men and women in uniform and frown strongly as pretenders including disallowing the use of ribbons, tabs, and unit patches at our business.
You would do wisely to distance yourself from homophobic small minded halfwits such as 215 in as strong language you did in your blog.
Matt from The Citadel
Why anyone would throw a hissy fit about a company calling out a bunch of shithead posers is beyond me.
Why anyone would decry someone constitutional right to be a gay poser, I hope someone sues the homophobic prick @215 gear (never heard of you in 20 years of being a gear whore)
You don’t have a Constitutional right to buy gear. Nor is he required to sell it to you. Nobody is telling you that you can’t be a gay poser…settle down darling.
Interesting. I like the rant (with all the colorful words) but understand how some could take it the wrong way or consider it unpro. There are a couple statements that seem a bit self serving or conceited but sometimes confidence comes across as something else.
I’m sure the company will be fine in the long run. Not sure I would have handled it the same way as I would want the actual business of these individuals asking for handouts anyway. I’d probably offer them a 10% discount due to the company’s “policy” of not being able to give out free items. LOL
So instead of getting more business, You guys force them to go and buy the knock offs and support the people you despise most it seems? I’m disappointed in you guys, I’ve spent alot of money with you, and you guys make an awesome product, but shit like this is ridiculous.
I think I’m missing something here. So you think that RCS should give free products away to those that call up and lie about who they are?
@215
airsofting is a form of homphobic activivty………..wow,dont understand how you managed to run a company with such a tiny brain and limited knowledge of the world.
never bought your shit and never will……..your a prick.
sure you might have some people trying to con you into chaeper prices…..but to call all airsofters gay is just wrong.it also shows me you are low on intelligence,and yes i do also run a business and can definatly say i handle it way better than you do.
since im not representing my comany here……………….you a fucking moron and the word definatly seems to be getting out about your little rant,ive seen it on 3 forums from people who are completley disgusted with you.
RCS, I can agree with most that your rant was a bit unprofessional, but you know what. I agree with what you said. And last I checked, The Constitution is not null and void YET. I served a long 12 Years in the USAF, that was ended (Medically Retired) prematurely by a Tumor. I served with Honor and Dedication. I loved what I did everyday. I wasn’t SpecOps or anything like that. I did Finance and then Air Traffic Control. Served quite a few deployments as a Paying Agent.. I did my part. While the imposters dont bother me as much as they do others, I totally understand why so many take things so personally when one is identified. I just do my best to avoid them as I possibly can, and correct them if I am ever exposed to them.
@215.. You sir are an asshole. I play Airsoft every week, I am also overweight because of the Meds I take for my Condition, but I also Have Sex with my Wife.. I have never had a homosexual relationship with anyone. I support the Wounded Warrior program, I volunteer at my VA Clinics, I provide mentoring to my Peers coming back from deployments, I also Mentor young men and woman looking for a future in our Armed Services. Funny thing, those young people I mentor, are all Airsofters. As RCS and many other Brands have to deal with, we also deal with Douchebags in our community who fluff their credentials in hopes getting handouts. Those Douchebags make up maybe 2% of our community. There are those of us who run around in the woods and “dress up” because we are not ready to let go of a lifeastyle we once had. There are also those of us who are professionals and like to spend our money on quality Gear and apparal. On the Flip side of Airsoft, I am also an avid Hunter and Shooter. I spend thousands annually on gear and equipment, it is good to know I dont have to worry about owning or using 215’s stuff ever again. Good day to everyone.
For 215:
Being that you appear to be a member of special forces (and i hope one wouldnt lie about such things on a post about fakes and posers, so i am not gonna question it) I am going to assume you have dedicated a certain portion of your life to training in warare. Therefore sacrificing many of the years most people spend drinking, screwing, and partying. For that reason I am going to accept the gay bashing, and the abrasiveness you have towards airsoft. From the standpoint of someone who is a warrior, I can imagine airsoft seeming very stupid.
That being said….fuck off. A) at least half of the airsoft community comprises of law enforcement officers, current and ex military, armed security officers, and corrections officers. B) we in the airsoft community hate posers JUST as much as you do, and have spent quite a few man hours outing useless asshats pretending to be navy seals to impress people. And C) None of the literally hundreds of softers I know actually fancy themselves soldiers, or warriors, and if they do they are fucking retarded.
Fact airsoft isn’t just a bunch of kids running around the woods anymore. Its a huge American industry, spanning cost to cost frequented by thousands of people every week. It has changed the face of the tactical gear economy, and probably comprises a certain amount of your business. Try it some time, you might like it.
Yours
Andrew McGiffin
Florida airsofter five years running
I’m fairly certain that the airsoft community does not consist of at least half of mil/leo background.
Seems like a bunch of you airsofters are a bit butt hurt at someones comments. Grow a thicker pair of skin. It will do you wonders and lower your BP.
And you’d be mistaken.
I don’t think he is mistaken at all. Sounds 100% spot on.
Whatever you say, faggot. /sarc
Well, lets start a running tally, shall we?
B. Miller, Grindstone/Kraut
Former USAF SrA, 6 years. AFSC: 1A351 AMSS, AWACS CDMT.
Airsoft, just short of 6 years.
Anyone else who airsofts and is Mil/LE/so on please post up!
I support RCS and 215gear 100%. Those of you PC, thin skinned, ninnies offended by choice words are missing the point entirely since you are too busy being butthurt to pay the fuck attention to the message.
I think we get the message. These guys are douchebags who think they’re too awesome to make some extra money off people who’d gladly pay for their gear if 215 would just shut the fuck up. Everyone here agrees 100% that people pretending to be military is wrong if they aren’t actually former or active duty. The majority of people I’ve played airsoft with, are former or active duty. I know a couple of active marines and former Rangers who would probably find your and 215’s comments super interesting.
I see the point. The point is that people are pretending to belong to a community they can only have wet dreams about in an attempt to get free handouts. This behavior is shameful and ties up company resources unnecessarily. I’m no LE/ Mil serviceman, but I am a college student and airsofter, who enjoys taking time out of my free weekends to get a good amount of exercise and use my brain as opposed to passing out on the couch clutching a video game controller.
Surely someone such as yourself can understand the merit of physical activity over laziness.
The anger begins when a legitimate complaint ends and the bashing of an entire group of people begins by calling them all homosexuals. I don’t need to quote anything, you’ve read the post already. Probably several times.
I can honestly see where this post started. You wanted to make a statement about people trying to get freebees and handouts from you and you not standing for it. Why you had to throw airsofters into the mix is beyond me. Yes, we do have a lot of 12 year old kids running around in their backyard, but ruling us in as “poseurs”, frauds and liars is just belittling. I am not Mil/LE, and I strictly try not to be, because I know that there are men and women doing this without the plastic bbs. I play airsoft because it is fun and while knowing the fact that it is NOT a sport, but a hobby, that many people enjoy around the world. So, the fact that me wanting to buy quality gear makes me into a poser or a fraud completely blows my mind. So, harmon, if retaliating to an extremely opinionated belief against us makes us “PC, thin skinned, ninnes”, I’m just gonna laugh. And as you can tell, I didn’t even include the fact that you called our sport/hobby homosexual.
The fact that you vented this entire ordeal on the internet does not make me not want to buy from y’all. In fact, I’ll probably buy from you more, because I know that you do not do business with posers with their hands out, but saying that airsofters belong in this group is just plain wrong.
I’m going to end this before it becomes a rant as well.
Wow RCS, you really shot yourself in the foot this time.
RCS: I agree with your message about the poser issue but your rant was unprofessional as a business. There are better ways to get your point across and like someone mentioned you can advertise to the idiots that call asking for handouts that you only give a 10% discount that way you still make money since you are a for profit business. The dishonor of those idiots is frustrating but you cannot control it since most of them are pathological liars.
215, kango, harmon: The airsofters are not thin skinned, PC or “butthurt”; we are pissed for several reasons because of your comments. I know a few of the guys that responded to this post and I can say that they are in fact veterans or LEO and the ones that are not have never pretended to be because our community will oust them very publicly and quickly. There are many reasons why people enjoy airsoft but you guys can look that up on your own. You guys need to know that the majority of the games, at least here in Florida, consist of a demographic of men between 20 and 40 years of age and many of them are military or public servants. I am neither fat, an idiot or a “homo” as 215 stated but rather well educated and a very well trained former US Marine who is too injured for military duty which is why I choose airsoft since I cant be in the current wars. It allows former NCOs like myself to run a twenty man team strategically to meet simulated military objectives. Real or not this takes skill and true leadership and I can honestly say my skills have sharply increased because of airsoft because I do have the luxury of trail and error and learning from my mistakes.
215: You are a lousy business man. Obviously you have not taken business courses or know the value of “word of mouth” especially in a community and industry as small as yours. Since you feel the need to insult me, all of my friends and my sport; I will do a little social experiment in negative marketing for you: I know several vendors and event hosts in both paintball and airsoft. I also know many people who commit to competition shooting with real firearms as well as hunters and I can promise you I will make certain that they know how you feel about their “homo” ways.
The point is, that if 215 gear read out their letter of hatred on TV, they would go out of business within a week. I have no future plans to buy your gear and will make sure no one else makes that mistake either.
Hi from the UK.
As a few have mentioned news of this has traveled VERY far and wide.
First off, I am myself both ex-services and a airsofter. I am also a member of a currently 12 person strong team. of in which 5 members including myself have served or are currently serving in the armed forces. Our team generally use high end kit due to quality. Not to imitate any armed forces etc.
I know that the problems you guys suffer must be tiresome to say the least and I can assure you anyone that attempts such action is of the lowest order but there is better ways to deal with said issues. like a notice stating no free samples on your Webster?
I believe no airsofter would stoop as low as that. But please. take others advice. Distance yourself from the likes of 215 as they clearly are a bad influence on the tactical retailer industry. In the UK a company is judged not only on its produce but its public face. an example would be Waitrose and the John Lewis Patnership. Now I know they aren’t your side of the pond but Google is. they are known for outstanding quality and have one of the highest YoY profits. why? Well their produce is good but not exactly cheap BUT their customer face is amazing.
as said before. Airsoft and paintball is huge business. in the UK alone its responsible for over 70% of tactical kit sales. not exactly small persentage. I know that’s UK not usa figures, probably less in US as you also have other shooting activities that will draw on that percentage.
Now specifically to 215…
You know what? Raven I respect. I feel for them with their issues. worded a bit wrong but still. You on the other hand. You make me laugh and to be honest I find you hard to take serious. You slate Airsofters so much? They are all homosexual? Wannabes? regards was it? Sorry but do you even know what airsoft is because I think you Googled the wrong thing. Or its different in your country perhaps? Over here its not like you describe. unless you think the SAS are Wannabe homosexuals? Google Sterling airsoft. Yes that’s right. That is a picture of a guy who was part of the Iranian Embassy Siege and yes he was a major player in the British airsoft scene. so stop being such a condescending bigot.
Oh and re-read your rant. Your a special operations operator? Then no one in that field would ever reveal what they do? In your career as an operator you have had plenty of experience lying? That’s about the only bit of your statement I believe actually as your obviously talking pure rubbish. you are what you say you detest, a dress up wanna be. nothing more nothing less. your identity is open for anyone to see if you are in truth the owner and founder of 215 so using an alias of ‘J’ is pointless. So operators don’t reveal themselves on public boards etc? Hehe. I’m guessing in fact I’m mistaken and you are correct, I apologise, you never really said what you operate. there was me thinking something like on CoD- being an airsofter that’s all I know is CoD. Again sorry, I’ve heard it can be hard work being a fork lift operators these days……
Say what you want, this is America but… calling some low life impersonator a homosexual is a insult to all homosexuals. Let’s go with needle dick donkey fuckers.
Jer USMC
P.S. I play airsoft
95% of my MILITARY SIMULATION AIRSOFT UNIT is CURRENT (if not EX) Military/Law enforcement.
And we wonder why political correctness cripples shit in America and the military. Some of you pussies need to get some thick skin. The 215 guy used the word “homo” and now this turns into a gay discrimination forum??!! Make your dads and grandpas proud and stop acting so Godamn sensitive. If you like the gear buy it, and if you don’t ,shut the fuck up and go do pt!
WOW 215 Gear.
It would be one thing if you guys actually made good gear, but given your absolute TRASH gear, I don’t think you should be running your mouth off insulting probably 70% of your customer base (Airsofters and Non-Active Mil/LEO)
The fact of the matter is that 215 Gear makes some of the lowest quality, overpriced crap money can buy. NO ONE in the real world uses it, you have NO contracts, and yet you feel the need to run your mouth. ”Gay” airsofters are the ONLY ones who buy your terrible products and you just shot yourself in the foot by severing whatever ties you had with that community.
Moron
Actually, you are wrong on so many levels I have to wonder what your real agenda is.
Since this has transformed into something completely different we are going to close it up and post this statement that 215 Gear posted on their Facebook wall.
In response to the multitude of comments made from our FB post, I will reiterate and clarify what the intent of the post was.
If you are an airsofter and tell people or companies you are from Underwater Demolition Team 21, knife fighting Platoon and want expedited shipping, T&E gear, or custom kit, this post was directed at you.
If you are a person using it as a legitimate training tool and do not misrepresent yourself to others, this was not directed at you.
Unfortunately the latter person is overshadowed by the actions and misrepresentations of the first. I will give you an example of this from within the last so many days. A customer makes an online purchase over a weekend, then calls on Monday to see when the item would ship. A customer service rep had told the person the item was in stock and should ship that day. No big deal. The customer then calls back and states “I’m with DEVGRU and need the item, we are about to go hotâ€, wanting the rep to ensure the product ships now. Two additional phone calls came the next day asking for a tracking number and shipping details again stating they are with DEVGRU in Florida. This is a recent example and very representative of what I was talking about.
215 Gear is a true family owned business, not a large corporation. It was started in the low of the economy, with liquidated retirement assets. We have built it brick by brick. Another point of contention directed toward the airsoft industry is in relation to the rampant counterfeiting and rip-offs of legitimate tactical gear. While counterfeiting and rip-offs are indeed throughout every industry it is particularly troubling in an industry where safety gear is being ripped off. This is something we have had happen and find disturbing. Our fear is an operator ends up with one of these poorly made rip-offs and takes it out on the battlefield. If you think having rip-offs out there does not hurt a small American manufacturer, you are dead wrong.
We make specific items for a specific target audience. If this seems exclusionatory too bad. There are, of course, secondary and tertiary markets that find needs for our gear and we know that. A case in point is our safety belt. It was designed for Special Operations, in and around a maritime environment. However, any military member and law enforcement can benefit from your hardware not rusting. A company that deals with offshore drilling on platforms needed a belt for their uses. Not the intended target audience, but completely acceptable. A <15 yr old airsofter wanting a belt in XS for gaming, is not who/what the item was made for. We make no apologies for not supporting airsoft as a whole. We do not sell to dealers who have even the word airsoft on their site or storefront. Again exclusionatory? Yes. Our product brand means more to me than the extra revenue from the above mentioned players. For the percent of people using it as a force on force training tool, you unfortunately get overshadowed by the rest of the guys that ruin the reputation for the rest. As our opinion- force on force training is best accomplished with Simunition â„¢, using real weapons and tactics for “stress inoculationâ€. I realize not every department in LE can afford this, so I can understand that aspect of airsoft. I suspect we have never had any problems from this type of person.
The bottom line: If you’re in the small percentage of professionals that use this as a training tool, not misrepresenting yourself or posing, you unfortunately got lumped in to the rest that do. It wouldn’t be the first time or the last. If you didn’t like my language or thought it unprofessional, don’t go to our page or buy from us. It should only offend you if you are a liar, poser or fraud.