Hardpoint Tactical’s Core II Assaulters Armor Carrier relies heavily on the use of Velcro to keep it together. Many are wary of such an application, particularly in snow conditions where it can affect the efficacy of the Velcro.
Tags: Hardpoint Tactical
Really guys? “No normal human being would do this”. You’re right operators aren’t normal and put their kit through hell. Not to mention you demo’d the kit slick. Last time I checked Most operators have whats called a “Load Out” . Lets hang three full mags on the front, throw a blowout kit on the left, a frag or better yet a PRC 148 on the right get it all snowy and do the same test and throw some burpees in just to be sure, Im willing to bet the weight of gear hanging on a snowy or more realistically muddy closure would result in a fail.
Agreed. The velcro always became an issue because all the weight on that front flap just wears it out super fast.
He is good people and an operator himself. Before you question his “operator-ness”, what’s your resume? Velcro if used properly will work fine. Nylon gear doesn’t need to last forever and is why you get issued new kit. I have the. Hard Point CAPM and it’s one of the best carriers I’ve owned. Don’t judge until you try it.
Don’t put yourself on a public forum to be judged, and then cry when you are.
Still not a fan
The other issue is general wear, how long will velcro last with continual use, AND dirt?
Should last plenty long, just like Eagles and LBTs Velcro designs
Does anyone have any proof of the velcro actually failing? Or being so worn down that it doesn’t work any more? Most armor carriers and plate carriers use the exact same system, so I cannot see why Hardpoints version of it should be any more fragile than LBT or Eagle.
Exactly. By the time your Velcro is so worn down it’s probably time to replace your kit anyway.
Huh?
Try again. First actually use the kit actively for a few months so that it isn’t shining new. Then get your kit properly soaked by spending a few days in in wet-snow field conditions, crawl around in some wet mud, and then have the ambient temperature drop well beyond freezing. And then make the demo video that ‘no normal human being would do’. Also compare the – by now useless velcro – with heavy-duty quality zippers (cleaned and lubricated prior to field use), side-release buckles and push-buttons having that have gone through the same normal military field usage.
Velcro has already been battle proven for over 10 years with Eagle, LBT, BAE, KDH amongst dozens of other manufacturers and countless NSNs. Not to mention on uniforms as well. Not only on US but UK, French, Aussie etc…
Velcro has been around for much more than 10 years, of course, and users are well aware of its limitations: It won’t work well when muddy or snowy, and worse still when the muddy/snowy gets icy too. That’s probably why the company made the demo video in the first place, to address concerns about the usability in snowy conditions.
But the demo was pathetic! That was my point. Putting some snow on the shining new velcro in a test of few minutes really doesn’t make it a meaningful test.
Of course velcro has been used on vests in the past. It works, no question about that, but has its limitations. Velcro is much less exposed on a vest closure than on, say, the ankle cuffs of ECWCS trousers, where it easily fails miserably.
Users with experiences of velcro failing tend to be wary of velcro in ‘critical’ applications, like the sole closure of a vest (rather than on, say, the storm flap covering the zipper of a parka). Even though it would work in practice almost(!) all the time.
Tom uses some very durable materials and uses his own gear in the real world, with a load on it. He does not emphasize this, yet those who know him know this to be true. Of all the gear designers I know, he designs, tests, and modifies his designs based on experience more than most out there.
Jon, OPT
No one is questioning Toms background nor do we need to get into a resume pissing contest. What we are discussing is the design and the testing. Eagle and LBT do not construct their cummerbund the same as the hard point the direction of pull on a kangaroo style closure when weighted wouldn’t cause a fail. The Hard point would appear to fail if the side closures were weighted with gear. I could be wrong if you hard point lovers are so confident in your product show a more rigorous and further more REALISTIC test.
Well there’s probably some delicious engineering answer to the question of:
How much stress does it take to make captured velcro fail? How much loaded weight can a specific strip of velcro take? What if there are foreign bodies (like dirt or crap) involved?
Unfortunately, I’m not that engineer :P. Just eyeballing it though, it looks like he’s got some 2-3 inches of velcro there. If you think about it, you’re not putting more than a certain amount of weight there. The most I can think of is hard side plates plus maybe….5-8lbs of extra gear if you’re really stuffing things on it? It’s not like you’re sitting on the side flap or putting your entire backpack on it. I think it’ll hold up.
I personally like Ares Armor’s plate carrier silencer (and wanna try their Austrialpin system) but this does seem innovative.
Not Rocket science! Whats the big break through???
Hey, I’m the guy that made the video and owns the company, so please feel free to address any further questions you may have to me directly.
Look, the video was not meant to show a full battery of rigorous testing–such will be coming in the future–but rather to try and quickly answer a specific concern posed by a local law enforcement agency interested in purchasing the system for their department: Will snow impair the functionality of the Velcro?
I had the carrier loaded out as they are planning to run it (no side plates or other heavy gear), minus the radio and mag pouches, as I didn’t have any extras lying around at the time.
What I meant by “no normal human being would do this” is try and make their Velcro fail by literally packing all connection points full of snow, without trying to clear it out first. You can easily see how jammed full of snow they are in the video if you look for it. By all accounts they shouldn’t have held, but they did. In the real world, any person of intelligence not trying to make a point like I was would simply shake out the debris and drive on like nothing happened.
For those who seem to be indicating that they “know” the Velcro is going to fail, that is honestly just not the case with our design and the way we utilize it. We have been running variants of this system for over over 6 years now with many in the sandbox for a long time, and I’ve NEVER had a single carrier returned for the Velcro failing. As indicated by others, I personally wear my own gear down range, and am intimately familiar with its capabilities.
As a side note, I’ve actually tried all of the fastening systems mentioned and found that each has its own unique limitations: Plastic buckles can break and don’t offer the same level of adjustability; Metal buckles are heavy, can jam-up and can offer secondary frag issues; Snaps often don’t function well in wet, muddy environments; Zippers regularly jam up and break. That is not to say that any of these systems can’t be made to work also; only that their limitations must be realized and respected as well.
Done right, Velcro, in my experience, is as good as any other system currently out there, when used in an appropriate application.
It is true that there is no “Rocket Science” behind what we’re doing, and I’ve never stated that there was; just solid, intelligent designs that work as intended.