In March, 2016 the US Army’s 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) will hold a ceremony at their home on Fort Campbell, Kentucky to formally transition their beret flash from the current Black version to a type initially adopted during the Viet Nam war. The flash they will begin using again features a Yellow Band with three Scarlet Bands. The 5th Group Flash has always featured a Black background, going back to 1961 when the unit was stood up. In 1962 a White border was added and remains today. In 1964 the flash was redesigned, adding the bands. In December 1984, 5th Group commander COL Jim Guest, requested the Group revert to the older variant in order to disassociate the unit with Viet Nam. Specifically, Guest wrote, “The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated into a US Army beret flash.” In his request he went on, “The Republic of Viet Nam and the original purpose for having the Vietnamese colors in the flash no longer exist.” That request was approved on 16 January, 1985 by the Director, Institute of Heradlry although I recall still seeing 5th Group members wearing the “Viet Nam” flash into 1987 while TDY away from Fort Bragg.
While the official story is that these Yellow and Red affectations represent the 1st and 7th Groups which provided augmentation to 5th Group in Viet Nam, it’s impossible to deny that these colors are also from the flag of the Republic of Viet Nam. Isn’t it odd that the color bands perfectly replicate the RVN flag? If they were simply meant to honor the other groups, as in the case of the 3rd Group flash, wouldn’t there just be two stripes?
Naturally, like the decision that switched the flash during the mid-1980s, the move back is not popular with everyone. Reportedly, some Veterans of the “Legion” as it is known, don’t feel a connection to the Group’s Viet Nam roots and have questioned the change. The same thing probably came up in 1964 when they added the bands to the Black flash. No doubt, we’ll see 5th Group members continuing to wear the “war on terror” flash for many years to come.
Tags: 5th SFG(A)
Why?
Why go back to the Nam era flash?
Some priest in the Temple of AR 670-1 thought that yellow and red stripes, was the new black?
Double tap majrod’s question….
What is the motivation to reactivate the old flash?
I have no opinion one way or another; not associated with that group…just curious.
A lot of good men fought and died under both. I understand it from the heritage point but don’t see the value otherwise. I don’t have an association with it either but it does seem odd.
Hmm. Perhaps a reminder that one can win the battle, but lose the war…or have the war lost for you, back at home.
Or maybe, the veterans asked for it and are getting it. There’s a lot of heritage there.
If there was ever a person that was owed(Actual cash instead of that BS ‘Support the troops, but forget them when they are done’ message), for the blank check they wrote…
It’s an American vet
I think it’s a cool heritage thing and nothing more. Changing the flash to disassociate after VN was more disrespectfully than anything
Agreed
After 15 years of war and now going back to our roots; this is the focus… Beret flashes, we have less ammo less funding for schools but damnit our flashes will signify our roots.
You’ve still got it way better than we did in the 80s and 90s.
This!! Bang bang bang training.. walking instead of riding to field..
I am thankful for that!
Let me add; I do think the RVN flash is cool and appreciate the heritage. I am not in 5th group but in one of the other groups and am disgruntled with the “battle-less focused” training and effort.
I’ve got 17 years in SF and have no idea how changing a flash could affect training. To the team guy it’s a stop off as a sew shop he probably passes every day going to work.
Money-wise, the funds for uniform items the unit has aren’t funds for ammo or schools.
Does it seem kind of arbitrary, unwarranted, and possibly perceived as a lack of focus? YES, but I don’t think it will affect the unit as far as training, morale, schools, etc.
I’ve seen guys pulled off deployments to take a DLPT, THAT is a good example of Group level retarded shit, in fact this is a flash in the pan (hehe, pun intended) compared to the ridiculous wastes of money I’ve seen to make a commander’s stats look good.
Not flaming you bro, I get your frustration, I get it all too well. I also know this is something that Legion old timers and members have talked about for years, and if it’s what the fellas want, then more power to them.
You aren’t flaming, it’s cool. I think the flash is awesome and I know one of my best friends is in 5th group and most plaques, certificates and t-shirts seem to have the RVN Flash.
We havent had any trouble finding ammo if you talk to the right people and schools are no issue whatsoever.
Are you in 5th Group?
In 30 years they’ll go back to the all black one because of all the War on Terror Heritage (TM). Can’t Wait!
Well the Vietnam flash is still the backing for our Airborne Wings, I don’t see many guys caring too much other than the hassle of getting them swapped out on the berets.
And yes, the “heraldry” stuff is sort of lost on me for the most part – I don’t think it is well managed and the decisions go back and forth which kind of defeats the point.
Rick
I respect those Army SF who have an opinion one way or the other but to me, it honors the history of 5th SFG, which first came to prominence in Vietnam. I can’t imagine anyone would see the harm in that. It should have never come off in the first place.
The Vietnam vets in my family said that the South Vietnamese got the right colors for their flag. Red on yellow.
All this talk about history and honoring the past…give me a break. We’re honoring the Vietnam era heritage by bringing the stripes back but we’re not dishonoring the GWOT era heritage who wore the all black flash before 9/11, after 9/11 and today while we still sight in our era.
The original 5th GRP flash was all black. You read that right. When the yellow and red stripes were removed, we went BACK to all black.
This is an OER bullet that wasn’t really thought out very well.
*fight
agree with designated driver, but…
Everyone always talks about these “OER bullets” but I don’t think ive ever written or received an OER with anything as arbitrary as
“Expertly researched, conceptualized, and executed the unit’s heraldry to swiftly augment the current and most historical beret flash to again display the unit’s rich history and commitment to the former South Vietnamese. Exceptional results in implementing fashion while remaining mission focuses on other important things and stuff.”
Either way, I’m not a group guy, but will ask a 5th SFG dude what they think. My guess is that no one will be too bent out of shape about it and they will go on to care about things that matter to them. I mean, I’m sure some of the guys care, but I would think that they would be more concerned about other things
Arent there like a million 18X babies all grown up now in the teams anyways? Do they care?
rant complete.
Ok. So as a former rigger for a SFG. I get the heritage. I love the heritage, shoot didn’t someone special once say history will repeat itself? Or did I just butcher that quote? But I liked working with the guys. It was cool being an E-2 and walking up to an SGM stopping to the position of parade rest. The SGM looking around and saying “shit did my boss just walk up?” Me saying “no SGM I just need to restuff the flaps on your main”. SGM saying back. “Hey what’s your first name? Mine is Bob and we will go by that when not in the rear! Deal?”
What is it with riggers being the most arrogant dickweeds on the planet? I get it, you guys do an important job, but I have never had a conversation with a rigger on any topic that wasn’t immediately derailed with a retarded story like “yeah, one time I made a COL give me his bunk because I reminded him that I packed his chute and he was forever grateful and gave ME a coin and his SGM went to parade rest for me even though I was an E-fuzzy and that’s how important I am.” Get over yourselves.
As the son of a 5th GRP/MAC-SOG vet, I think its cool. I wish I had his 5th Group Beret. The only one he as left is his 7th Group Beret.