Trainer Kyle Defoor has come up with an interesting alternative to students using the Blackhawk Serpa holster. Read the whole thing here www.kyledefoor.com/2012/02/no-more-serpa-holsters-in-my-classes.html
Tags: Kyle Defoor, Serpa
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I’ve been running SERPA holsters for the last three years. Love it. Even the level 3. never had a single problem.
As for the AD’s? I have a solution for that:
Keep your effin’ finger off the effin’ trigger until you’re ready to effin’ fire.
There are other issues than NDs associated with this holster.
You do realize that Kyle’s sample size of incidents with this holster comes from years of RUNNING Blackwater USA’s Training Division, supervising more students receiving firearms instruction than anyone else in history.
Your sample size of (1) holster/user doesn’t much compare.
I agree also. I’ve had experience with the SERPA holster since 2004 and since only lately hearing some kind of ‘horror story’ about people (someONE?) shooting themself in the leg upon draw, have been unable to get a Glock, HK USP (full and compact) and a 1911 to fire upon draw. (Dry fire of course) The negligent discharges upon draw are just that: negligent.
While it’s definitely true that ND’s don’t just “happen” on their own, there is something to be said when a disproportionate amount of them are happening with these holsters.
If you’re a trainer who make your living off on instruction, it’s a lose-lose when you have people showing up to your classes and shooting themselves under duress while using these holsters.
I can’t say I would do it any differently if I were him.
I’d strongly suggest the Safariland 6377/6378. Much better than the serpa, and they are inexpensive.
It is not an issue with the holster it is an issue with the person. Instead of properly indexing (fully extending) the “trigger” finger along the frame of the weapon and depressing the lock button with the pad of your finger like you should, some people crook their finger and try to force the lock open with the tip of their finger, thus, upon draw, unintentionally forcing their own finger into the trigger guard and depressing the trigger.
Proper Preparation (training) Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
If there are so many accidents with the SERPA, why isn’t there proof of it? Is there any one that keep ups statistics?… Seems to me more like 1 story thold x1000 that makes so many incidents. Is a new holster order by a department comming up? 🙂
Since the Serpa is now an issue holster. Doing what this instructor says is destruction of government property. Do it an you can be charged, at a minimum, for the replacement cost of the holster.
I wonder why they have not banned Glocks to. The repproted, and videoed, number of ND’s with Glocks exceed the numbers with Serpas. Oh, wait, that’s an OPERATOR issue; not an equipment issue.
BTW: I do not use Serpas as belt holsters. I have found that I can not reliably index on the catch (strong side, FBI cant). But then I train with my equipment and do not expect it to magicaly work like most folks.
The ONLY reason SERPAs are being banned is training revenue.
They’re no worse / dangerous / failure-prone than any other mechanical system on the market and EVERY rare case of ND with them is caused by the shooter.
The problem, if you start banning stupid students, you start cutting into your revenue. The solution? Not only blame but vilify otherwise decent kit, going so far as to ban it from class.
Yes, there are alternatives that work as well, but they’re no better. Can we please move on now?
I have no beef with anyone who can’t trust the holster – those complaints are coming from some experienced people using it in difficult circumstances, something that tends to foster an extremely conservative view toward any potential problem. It’s not the best application for a HSLD shooter? OK.
Most soldiers who get one aren’t. Look at who wears pistols and why in the service – Officers, as a symbol of authority to wear in low conflict situations, MP on their daily rounds of peacetime duty, etc.
If it’s a combat zone, they all take the M4/M16.
Most of them don’t shoot more often than qualification twice annually at best. And they sure don’t shoot under duress in combat situations with one without a lot of social forewarning – ie, a callout, or visual ID that other weapons are out – “Condition Orange” type situations.
They get plenty of time to remove the weapon in advance without having to rely on untrained speed reflex they aren’t required and forced to practice.
That certain malfunctions can happen, yes, sand blocks depressing the lock, or poor operator training causes them to discharge the firearm into their leg. But again, the trainers extremely conservative mindset takes these issues as a blanket condemnation, when in reality, it’s a rare situation that rarely happens.
Goes back to, why was a user rolling around in the dirt without his weapon already exposed; why was the weapon already OFF SAFE while being drawn from the holster?
I was taught the safety was depressed just before sticking my finger in the trigger guard while the weapon was up and pointed down range. With a Glock, I would consider that an absolute necessity. No finger on the triggger at any time the weapon isn’t up and aimed.
Trying to use the Serpa as a competition holster, or in CQB team use, means understanding the kit, and training to prevent malfunctions, just like anything else. And if it’s that important, don’t use it at all.
But damaging or destroying it to make it something else? No. Bluntly, it’s irresponsible. Who gets that after it’s turned in? Likely, it goes to surplus, another service unit picks it up as an extra, and now someone else is relying on a butchered piece of junk. We can’t get the Army to crush bad AR mags, why perpetuate more failure?
As a former MP, I would have appreciated having a holster that offered both ready use of the weapon, and secure carry. Attempting to deal with a cavalry flap and lock that nearly requires two hands to withdraw a pistol is a bit much – and exactly why the strap option was so quickly released. At least those aware of it who could skirt uniformity could use it. Not the rest of us. And wearing the street holster in the field wasn’t happening.
Most of the time the pistol stayed in the rack that day, we took the M16’s. Hence, it’s much ado about nothing.