I’ve never seen anything like it. The patent pending NSN completely replaces the need for a shoulder stock on an AR-style firearm. Consisting of two main components: a stainless steel bracket, which mounts directly to a variety of firearms, and dual impact-absorbing foam pads, which mount to the rear of the bracket, the shooter places the bracket against his chin. The padded bracket absorbs nearly all of the felt recoil. The device mounts directly to any firearm with an industry-standard M16 lower receiver end plate adapter, including the popular semi-automatic AR-15 as well as several GLOCK pistol models fitted with an extra adapter.
The NSN makes the weapon both lighter and more compact. The developer Halix also claims that the firearm is easier and faster to aim because the device provides a point for the operator’s face and eyes to consistently index and acquire the sighting mechanism, and the device removes the time and effort needed to orient one’s shoulder and torso to the correct position. They also assert that aiming deviations caused by breathing are nearly eliminated because firearms do not contact the torso of the operator when using the invention. Additionally, with the NSN shooters are said to feel significantly less recoil than experienced with a shoulder stock, as the impact-absorbing foam pads retard rearward firearm motion more effectively than conventional shoulder stock designs, leading to faster follow-up shots and increased comfort.
Tags: Halix
Chinstock?
Very thought provoking concept. Will it work wearing an M-50 mask for example?
That’s a great question. It looks kind of rough to use with a mask.
Really? That’s the question?
Does this work with a mask? = Can clown shoes fit on humvee gas pedals?
Maybe, but that’s only one of a million reasons why it’s dumb.
Sorry, it really is interesting, but it just stuck out that that was the first question asked.
Well get here faster so I don’t ask the first question next time.
This is a joke right?
….right?
I gotta say I’m probably dumber for reading this.
Lets think about this for a second.
Able to communicate without breaking ‘chinweld’- Not really
Likelyhood of permanently removing teeth during stress- High
Likelyhood of removing teeth if you bump into anything- High
Ability to rapidly index weapon without basically punching yourself in the face- Low
Support for weapon manipulations (such as tucking the buttstock in your armpit)- None
Support against a gun grab- None
Does this work pretty well DURING shooting, probably. Does it suck giant donkey dick all the times when you aren’t shooting (IE 99% of the time), almost certainly.
What’s going on Soldier Systems? You used to be better than this…
Oh as for recoil mitigation, bull$^&*
Your neck is now a shock absorber, so yeah the felt recoil will be less. However watch the guys muzzle. It’s dancing around like Sugar Ray Leonard, and that’s with a Triple Tap or Battlecomp on it.
No thank you.
Chinweld…lol
I told you I’d never seenything like this
There is probably a reason for that.
Idk… looks like a lot of force to apply onto your chin.
Looks kind of roughto use without a mask.
Had to check the calendar. This is not April 1st.
Reminds me of the old footage of someone placing the butt-stock of a Stoner 63 Carbine on his chin and popping off a few rounds.
On the other hand, how long before some d-bag state legislators introduce a bill to ban these things?
Looks like a CA compliant stock
You guys do know this is just so you don’t have to SBR your AR pistol, right?
Yeah, and? What’s your point? or, like this device, do you not really have one?
So you can avoid the tax stamp and the sbr registration. Also aids in states where a new sbr is an automatic weapons violation.
That looks horribly uncomfortable. The guy shooting it can’t seem to hide his grimace.
I want to see a full auto mag dump.
Could be flawed. Could be awesome. Compared to no stock at all and just a AR-15 pistol with a buffer tube … probably better. Will give it a try before passing judgement.
I appreciate the open mind. If you’d like a free sample when we hit production, I’d love to have you try it out. E-mail me at neal@halix.co.
-Neal
Sent you mail.
We’ve got a prototype of a version that presses against your adams apple…
But the Chinweld brand Tooth-Rattler is gender neutral!
Can’t wait to see it, sir. Would you believe me if I said that I tried that already? Just kidding. I’d love to send you a sample of the NSN when we hit production. Feel free to e-mail me at neal@halix.co if you’re interested.
For everyone else: yes, it’s crazy, outside the box, insanity, etc.. I wish I could see your faces the first time you try the NSN out, though. It really works, it doesn’t hurt, and it’s a lot of fun to try out.
And I can take the criticism. Let me know what you guys think. I’m here because I think this thing can replace shoulder stocks, for real.
-Neal, owner of Halix
Props for having a thick skin, and for putting your money where your mouth is (so to speak).
Thanks for the offer but the video (and common sense) tells me all I need to know already I’ll pass on the chin-stock free or otherwise….
Good luck Neal. I look forward to reading reviews about this product from folks that test it.
I’m surprised by all these comments about recoil of a 5.56. Up until the early 80’s drill sgts routinely demonstrated the M16s light recoil by placing the butt of the rifle against their crotch and firing full auto.
Then again most of those guys would be the grandfathers of the present crew.
Thanks, Majrod. I appreciate the open mind.
To the guys talking about “common sense” and how this won’t work: give me a chance to have others document their experiences with the NSN.
This idea is quite radical, and I know I won’t win over everybody.
But, based on the (unrecorded) overwhelmingly positive reviews of the NSN by the dozen or so people who have shot it, I think this product holds the potential to improve the way people shoot. I’ll be sure to post video soon with people’s reactions.
Take care, everybody, and S/F. -Neal
Early ’80s, hell – I saw that exact demo in Basic in ’88 – after firing it with it braced on his nose and chin.
2002 with an A2; not full auto though.
For the owner of halix very interesting product As one of the over 10 million Americans who have TMJ jaw problems its kind of obvious why we will never buy your product. But if it weren’t for that I would probably have tried it.
That was my first thought, too!
For bare skin shooting I would be afraid of causing damaging stress on the rear mandibular muscle groups. With a mask I can see the issue being off-set…maybe a reciprocating chin-weld surface would alleviate the shock stress?
AR pistol = Stupid
AR pistol + chin thingy = really stupid.
Stocks work just fine.
I’m actually interested in purchasing one to test out and maybe carrying it in shop. I know the local Marines are always looking to get around Paperwork.
I’d also like to see the letter from BATFE stating that this is legal.
Topher DiMauro
Guerrilla Armament
Utterly stupid and will work nowhere else aside from a square range. No unconventional positions, no OSH capability, ect.
Pure mall ninja garbage.
Sad thing is, someone WILL buy this.
edit: I do see that they have “OSH capability”…missed it the first time…still stupid.
i`d love to try something like this out!looks very interesting!
I feel like this will take the same path as that of the “Bump Fire” stock. It will show up in the boonies, popular amongst red-necks, that now think they are “tactical”.
Interesting concept but I really don’t see a need for it, nor a use.
I REALLY hope this is a joke but if it’s not, the trauma this would impart on your Temporomandibular joints would slowly destroy your jaw.
Full auto = omomomom 😉
I guess every reasonable person here thinks more less this way, but I’ll say it.
Definitely outside the box, pretty interesting for enhancing “pistol type AR” effectiveness. Maybe there is some other potential for it – application that we didn’t think of yet, but… believing that this could completely replace traditional stock is not only naive, but speaks of little understanding of “dynamic shooting”. I was tought that to achieve most accuracy the shooter should rely on structural – not muscular support as much as he can.
This is bad marketing sir, think of a full auto .308 such as SCAR H and your invention.
Why will the BATFE not call this a stock? It creates another point of contact to your body, whether it be your shoulder, face or nuts, it is designed to function as a stock, is it not? I don’t see this being legal very long, even if it doesn’t drstroy the TMJ.
Being from a non-sbr state, any attempt at improving the AR pistol is appreciated and I’ll reserve judgement until I’m able to see it operate first hand.
Kudos to Halix for thinking outside the box!
For the $249.98 they want for this silly device I could pay for a tax stamp and a stock for a SBR….
Oh my God it’s $300! I wouldn’t pay a cent for that POS.
My wife is a dentist, after viewing the “slo-mo” video of this device, she immediately said it would almost undoubtedly lead to TMJ in most shooters.
http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/guide/temporomandibular-disorders
So, I showed it to an oral surgeon buddy, and his immediate reply was the same. Further, he added, facial and skeletal muscles are not designed to receive the continuous strain of forces depicted in the video.
If this is not a joke product , then it is a self inflicting device of soon to be experienced pain.
Check out the guys video, where he explains the advantages of his “NSN”. Im not sure he ever used a gun in anything that resembles a real gunfight. More accurate? Maybe compared to a pistol, but come on… A butstock for your face? Maybe it proves that the marked is overloaded with alternatives.
Im not familiar with US-laws, but has this been invented to a marked or a type of gun where buttstocks are not allowed?
Birk
Hi Birk,
I’ve had a bunch of people tell me that I should have put something in the video about my experience, but, you know, hindsight’s 20/20.
I’ve actually been in gunfights in Iraq and Afghanistan. Check out the last chapter of “Sniper: American Single Shot Warriors in Iraq and Afghanistan” by Gina Cavallaro / Matt Larsen, and read the first line. It’s about my sniper team, and I am mentioned by my real name.
This product has been invented specifically for pistols, i.e. no shoulder stocks allowed, no vertical foregrips, <16" barrel.
Take care,
Neal
Thanks for your reply!
I’ve watched the video, where you explain the benefits of your products, a few times now. Maybe I missed something the first time.
Within the first 20 seconds you claim that your ‘NSN replaces the need for a shoulder-stock’ and that it’s more reliable than a conventional butt-stock. As I hear it, you brand it as a product for all types of weapons including rifles (with butt-stocks) – not only AR-pistols. Correct me If I’m wrong.
This is where I’m being skeptic: i don’t see how this is an improvement over a butt-stock/shoulder-stock.
If it is an improvement and it gives faster target-acquisition, try it with the VTAC 1-5 rifle drill. That should prove your point I guess.
PS. Neal, please don’t take this as an attack on you, since I don’t know you in person.
Innovation is good either way!
Birk,
This is why I’m enjoying the feedback on here. Obviously, my message can be confusing on that point. At 0:33 on the promo video, I do specifically say that this device is designed for pistols, but I also say that the devices replaces the need for shoulder stocks.
My meaning is that the NSN can take the place of a shoulder stock. So, on pistols: it adds a new level of stability and accuracy, but you don’t need to pay the $200 SBR tax stamp to put a stock on.
On 16+” barrel rifles? Since you can’t put on a short barrel or conceal that firearm, there is not a huge return in throwing on the NSN.
I’m not taking anything as an attack on here. I mean, nobody knows me, and they have little incentive to take this idea seriously.
Thanks, sir. – Neal
Regarding “huge return”: it’ll still drop weight, disconnect breathing from aiming deviation, remove problems associated with body armor/gear interference, make it easier to shoot ambidextrously, and remove length of pull issues. But, I just love having a short, concealable pistol, so I’m biased now.
I dont see this product being used for long use or range-practice. This could allow people in California and other states to legally have an SBR style weapon without the constraints of the law. This could be something useful for people who want to carry a larger caliber weapon in a smaller package but want to bypass the SBR Tax Stamp and wait. It can also be used by Govt/LEO as a PDW because of its even smaller profile.
Which brings me to the point of everyone bashing on the Chin stock messing up your jaw. If your using this as a true PDW and not running in the backwoods of georgia like a mall ninja doing 60 round surefire mag dumps and going urban prone you should be fine.
If this is used as a real world self defense weapon, your chin should not mean that much to you. Once again, do go shooting 100 rounds at a time. Install the product on a seperate rifle you dont often !*SHOOT*!
dont* go, typo
I don’t need to have my ass fucked to know I don’t like it.
That’s how I felt after watching this video.
I am sorry but I don’t know to test the NSN to know I don’t like it.
I’m certainly a bit cartesian, but this is just for low recoil firearm; in fact that’s a great idea for a PDW to improve accuracy and control in a restrictive situation (in a vehicule). On the other hand with a cartridge like 7.62nato it can be dangerous. If you don’t have a proper position you can damage your lower teeth and lip.
The next problem I see is with a PDW or pistol, the NSN take too much room in width which is a serious issue for a concealed weapon. This will not be an issue anymore if you can turn it 90° (pull it, turn 90° and the spring do the rest).
You want to know how I know the guy in the video is retarded?
Tell me.
The fact that you think this is a good idea.
Next time the Good Idea Fairy shows up…slap her.
This is an answer to a question nobody asked or is looking to solve. Where does one even begin to discuss the impracticality of this, this, oh- I don’t know…dental prosthesis?
There isn’t a single situation where this thing beats a traditional stock. That is unless my arms and legs are rendered useless. Then- maybe.
The fact you are discussing specific calibers and various situations for which it MAY be useful is what we call a clue. The rest of those clues come from the comments. HINT: even Billy Mays couldn’t sell this thing.
Hahaha….I’ll be sure to slap her next time.
I asked the question, though, and I attempted to solve it with this answer. And so far…people are buying it, Billy Mays be damned.
Have you watched the “extended description” video that’s on YouTube? You may hear something that sounds like it one-ups a shoulder stock, or you may not, depending on your viewpoint. I know I can’t convince everybody, but I’ll sure as heck try. Let me know what you think, for real.
Thanks for the feedback, sir.
Still an issue for a concealed weapon.
Perhaps I was a bit imprecise and vague. But I did see the video. I just don’t see the practicality for many situations. In fact, I honestly see risk of injury. Most importantly, I don’t see any advantage over a shouldered buttstock for a variety of calibers.
I can’t imagine walking in terrain and having to use this. Advantage buttstock. Prone with a variety of calibers? Buttstock.
Do a rigorous side-by-side test with a seasoned shooter using a traditional buttstock in a variety of circumstances. Humbly, I believe that will show some of the idea flaws.
Is there some very specific situation for which this device applies and therefore should be marketed? Maybe, but I haven’t put my finger on it.
Also remember that sustainability is the real key to success. Not initial sales. Some people thought the Ford Pinto was great.
I seriously applaud your attempt at innovation. You can never have enough people thinking about problem solving. But the ideas need to be rigorously tested with a wide cross-section of the target market before mass introduction. Some of the comments here, although facetious, reflect some pretty seasoned expertise.
I appreciate your thoughts, and I will be sure to include an honest assessment of the invention by a variety of shooters in the next video.
Regarding “Is there some very specific situation for which this device applies and therefore should be marketed?” Yes. It’s designed for lighter recoiling firearms (6.8SPC on down) with pistol designations, so that people can have a lighter weight, shorter, and legally concealable firearm that’s just as accurate as an SBR.
I’d like to include a reference in the video regarding your “walking in terrain” comment. Are you referring to the fact that vegetation could get stuck in the bracket?
Thanks again. -Neal
Looks interesting. I am a big 300 blackout fan, and wish I could get an sbr (no go here in Michigan). I have been looking at building a pistol, and this may be just the ticket.
First off, good for you. Having an idea, making a working model, and putting it out there for feedback.
This looks like one of those devices that is ‘don’t knock it til you tried it’. Personally I will wait to hear more positive responses before trying.
A rifle is considered a firearm fired from the shoulder (?). Present AR pistols are being fired from the face. If this device is considered an option to a stock it might cause legal headaches for pistol owners.
Have you considered making a detachable adapter that allows a buttstock make a positive cheekweld to gas mask ?
I wanted to be respectful to you just because of what the 1st sentence says. After reading in a previous post what you you’ve done for us,
THANK YOU
How much time and tools does this take to install?
It installs like any lower receiver end plate sling attachment device, like the Magpul ASAP or ikickhippies SLAP or whatever.
Remove buffer tube and lower receiver end plate. Install NSN in place of lower receiver end plate and screw buffer tube back in gun. If you have a pistol buffer tube, it can be done in less than one minute (I’ve timed it).
If you have a carbine tube, you will need to use a castle nut wrench to loosen the castle nut before unscrewing the tube, and then tighten the nut back down and stake it again. Since this is designed for a pistol, though, I’d always recommend using a pistol buffer tube on an pistol, though, just so you or somebody else doesn’t try to mount a stock and make an illegal SBR.
Interesting idea, most definitely outside of the box thinking. I have to wonder though, even for pistol type rifle use, what’s the advantage over using a vertical foregrip and British push forward against the sling method?