The ALG Defense 6-Second Mount was designed when a counter-terrorism unit approached ALG with a strict set of criteria. When entering a linear environment, such as an airplane or bus, the team’s primary weapon was their pistol and they were looking for a fast sighting method that was rugged and robust. Red dot scopes mounted directly to their pistol slides were showing a high failure rate, due to extreme acceleration or deceleration of the slide. The balance of the pistols was thrown off from the rearward scope mounting position, and the slides were weakened from machining a pocket for the scopes into the top of the slide.
The name, 6-Second Mount, comes from a description used by one of the operators: “The fight lasts 6 seconds… Either they’re dead or you’re dead, and aggression saves the day.”
Mounting an optic to your weapon decreases engagement time, allowing for faster and more accurate hits on target. By separating the sight from the reciprocating slide it allows the pistol to function properly without the added mass of the optic sight, producing a favorable weight distribution.
The ALG 6-Second Mount in machined from 6061-T6 aluminum and designed to fit Gen 3 Glock 17, 22, 24, 31, 34 and 35.
MSRP
Black: $250
DDC: $265
Tags: ALG Defense
Is it just me or the theme for 2015 going to be putting small ruggedized red dot sights on everything? I understand the application here, but quite frankly if you can’t hack it with the iron sights on your pistol, in a short range, close in environment, you probably shouldn’t be on the team in first place.
In my opinion this seems like a solution to problem that was created only because a special unit had extra money in the budget at the end of the fiscal year. Somebody had to spend all of it if they wanted an equal amount this year, so they got these.
Give it a shot and then tell us what you think. It takes a little practice to retrain yourself but I’m a believer of RDS on pistols.
Meh, to me it’s like giving crutches to somebody even though they should already know how to walk, only because the crutches will “impove walking”.
I will certainly keep my eyes out for it and tell you what I think though.
You could use the same argument for sights on rifles. At this point, I don’t know anyone who fires with iron sights on the carbine.
SSD why would we want to make things easier? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it right? Besides if you can’t shoot iron sights you have no business touching a gun right? /sarcasm off
Indeed you could. My point of view is this; any time you have to use your pistol, your in the wrong damn place at to wrong damn time. Your pistol is supposed to be a close range weapon, so if you can not apply that lethal force accurately at your target within the 25ft or so most shootings take place in you have no reason to be carrying a firearm.
I don’t see the point in making my pistol larger, heavier, more cumbersome, slower to draw, and harder to conceal in hopes that my shooting will improve. An RDS might help you land rounds on target but it won’t make up for competency with your pistol.
On side note I’m rather surprised SSD doesn’t know anyone who still shoot carbines with iron sights. I know multiple people who still do, and a lot more others who still do it remedially with back-up sights to remain competent incase their optics go down. It Honestly seems foolish not to, I don’t see the point in having the capability to use something but not the knowledge to apply it.
xpoqx, Why ask a question when your mind is clearly made up? Even the most skilled professional in our industry should understand there is still knowledge to be gained and perspectives other than their own. If you loose sight of that, you are preventing yourself from progressing.
This specific piece of kit is for a very specific group of people and for a very specific task for those people. Perhaps the handgun is their primary weapon in the specific task this was meant to be implemented in. Such as climbing a ladder to gain entry to an extreme close quarters situation like a plane or bus such as the article mentioned.
Also you mention it to be a “crutch” which to me shows an extreme lack of knowledge or at least understanding. This isn’t to make up for lack of skill, this is to take someone with the highest degree of skill , to the next level. Just because muskets were getting the job done, doesn’t mean they let us kill bad people as fast and efficiently as possible. Same goes here, if the RDS can improve our time/accuracy balance, than it is an essential piece of kit especially in an HRT roll. Also RDS have a big advantage over irons in low light conditions.
The fact you mention you know people who still use irons on long guns, completely makes your opinion invalid. Look at the absolute tip of the spear and everyone has accepted that optics are the way to go for a plethora of reasons. Also take a look at the top shooters of the competition world and note that everyone runs optics as they clearly make the shooter more efficient and effective.
I love a response from someone who has NO EARTHLY IDEA of the application for this or the task at hand. How about do everyone a favor a keep your uninformed and unwanted opinion to yourself
Dude
????
Dang it… That was supposed to be a fistbump.
Your comment fails to actually apply to the product and the use case it is deigned for. As such your criticisms fail to actually relate to the product and instead are aimed at questioning the wisdom of the original customers choice of arms during raids or assaults.
These were designed for a specific unit that needs/needed to fight in confined linear spaces like airliners. Said unit has concluded that pistols work better than long guns in the environment they are expected to use the mounts in. Any discussion about the wisdom of that assessment is well beyond the scope of knowledge for much of SSD’s readership. Since they usually don’t let just anyone onto the types of counter terror units that train and fight in things like airliners, we should give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
Assuming the subtext of your “wrong place wrong time” comment is referring to using a pistol instead of your long gun, that point is silly. As stated above, the pistol would be the shooter’s primary weapon in the scenario it was designed to be used in.
The comment about holsters, draw speed, and added bulk is also less useful in this case as well. A pistol with the mount and RDS would still be smaller than all but the the tiniest of carbines. And, assault team members (the original customer) would probably have whatever weapon they are going to employ already out at the ready before they kick off the assault. Thus the draw backs do to the increased size are negated by the way in the weapon and mount is meant to be employed.
If however the subtext was instead an exposition on defensive gun uses by civilians being indicative of a failure to avoid a possibly dangerous situation, the comment is equally silly. Going back to the reason for why the product exists, it is clear that it was not intended or optimized for CCW type use. Therefore your concerns do not apply to this product as it is intended to be used. If SSD or the manufacturer had presented the mount as the next great evolution in CCW hand gun technology then you comment would bear more weight. However neither of them did and the CCW use case is a fabrication of your own imagination.
The overall message of your post is “any product that does not fulfill a need that you have it must not fulfill a need for anyone else.” This is simply not the case.
^^ xpoqx’s comment not LAV
“the teams primary weapon was their pistol.”
Reading comprehension goes a long way. Is a RDS on your pistol a must have? No. Does it make it easier to acquire a target quickly? Yes. Does that matter when your in a tight space with high risk? Yup.
For every job, there is a tool. Not every Tool fits every job. Sometimes the wrench doesn’t cut it.
People should try shooting a pistol with a gas mask on in a low-light environment and then get back to us on what is or isn’t a must have.
JB, YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD! some folks only think of their classroom, well lit, sunny day worlds. If all you do is shoot on the range, their in the wrong place to making their opinions.
Haters gonna hate.
Potatos gonna potato…
Ainter’s gonna aint.
Naysayers gonna naysay
Isn’t all of that in the Taylor swift song?
hahahah i am laughing so much right now….i knew my comment was stupid and childish…but the replies are even better…thx SSD for not deleting!
I like it. I think that a RDS mount that attaches to the rail is the best attachment method. I’m somewhat surprised at the fact that there isnt an option for the G19, just full size and long barrel models.
Also, what are your options for holsters now?…
I think RDS’s on pistols have their place, but I do think you should be able to track your front sight (be it a blade or a dot), before learning to shoot a red dot. That being said, I’ve heard of people learning how to track their front sight by shooting a red dot. It makes things “click” for them.
Holy cow this thing looks sweet!
I am old enough to remember people saying the same things when we started putting red dots on long guns. Now no one would even think of running with a straight iron sighted AR. RDS are coming, it is just a matter of how they will mount and what they will look like. Will every handgun have one? No. But I firmly believe that full-size handguns carried by tactical team/DA personnel will.
Exactly!
Industry really needs to make a modern combat pistol that operates on a bolt mechanism rather than a slide. Then the possibilities are endless, like an AR.
I’ve been pondering something similar. The closest holsterable weapon that comes to mind is Goncz GA-9 compact:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Claridge_Hi-Tec_S9_001.jpg
A modern version using an aluminum upper, polymer lower setup for glock mags, and an integral RDS mount would be fairly simple to produce. Adding complexity, switching it to a retarded gas blowback like the HK P7 would greatly reduce recoil and hopefully the length of the rear.
With the fixed barrel + RDS accuracy would be excellent.
Why not start with purpose built frames? You could mill the necessary spaces to disassemble the weapon, the slide would work the same and the frame could have a much more designed clearance because you could design very low profile back up sites on the slide.
The disadvantage is the slide, when some one figures out how to get rid of a slide operation, that will be revolutionary.
People are acting like these units are buying these as a replacement for skill. Have you ever used a red dot before? It makes certain things a lot easier.
“Why do you want that firearm? Our spears and swords are just fine.”
Excellent concept.
It’s funny to me how for DECADES those within military units that have been issued shit have said repeatedly “we want our gear to be derived from training feedback directly from our individual and collective training”. Now, when people see an item that doesn’t fit their personal or unit needs sees an item derived from that exact feedback for another unit that is doing it right they immediately attack the item, the concept, and question the skills of the unit it is being issued to. I am all about “playing red” to any idea, everything deserves a counter-point to gain perspective on it, but bear in mind the roots of the issue, whatever it may be. This may not be a good idea to you (if so, don’t use it) but it was asked for by someone who after X amount of training said “we fucking need this to improve effectiveness”.
I did my entire first SFAUC in 2000 on M4 iron sights, I shot awesome with them, to this day I attribute my skills with my primary and secondary to that base level analog training. Irons are the first thing I ever zero on a weapon, but I’ll also be very quick to throw on, co-witness, and confirm zero on a red dot shortly after. I am just now breaking into red dots on pistols, literally firing one for the first time later this month. Why? Because, it worked for rifles, top shooters I respect use them, and the holsters exist for the systems now without having to find that specialty maker who is working out of his garage. It’s natural progression.
The best thing I see about this system is no one has to have their firearm modified, this is a modular system that can be mounted as needed.
Jon, OPT
ITAR controlled?
Most definitely.
I’ve been using a slide mounted Trijicon RMR on a milled Glock slide for 10 years and 500,000 rounds to date.
You state, “Red dot scopes mounted directly to their pistol slides were showing a high failure rate, due to extreme acceleration or deceleration of the slide. The balance of the pistols was thrown off from the rearward scope mounting position, and the slides were weakened from machining a pocket for the scopes into the top of the slide”.
Please provide the source(s) that support your statement.
V/R
Paladin
John,
the RMR wasn’t even released until 2007-2008 time id have to go back and check my pictures of the fruit ones seen in public and when it ones I’m pretty sure it was 2007
that said the Trijicon jpoint/doctor optic was around long before the RMR
Seeing as he was referring to the experiences of the counter-terror unit in question, it seems to me that this information would not be publicly available. Why don’t you accept that other people might have different experiences from yours?
Pretty cool concept, hope it can be made for other pistols. I like the idea of using this so when you need a red dot you have it, if you don’t prefer it your not stuck with a permanent altered slide.
Mako group has the same thing on amazon for $40. I’m thinking that this must come with heat seeking bullets to justify the price.
I am a fan of Fab Defense products and I use them where most people use Magpul in nearly every rifle and pistol build I do. That said, the Fab Defense mount you’re talking about is hardly comparable to this ALG Defense platform. Yes, they both place optics and yes the both work, but you’re trying to argue that Rolex is overpriced because you have a $20 Timex.
The Rolex is overpriced.
-Someone who owns Rolexes and knows they exist solely to display wealth.
DUDE really go in the corner and hit yourself in the face MAKO shit is no where even close to ALG or GA
you can’t even mention ALG and Mako in the same sentence. Mako really?
So what does this do that the other doesn’t? I don’t see it doing 5x more to justify the 5x price.
The Rolex comparison is a good one. The Timex and Rolex both tell the same time, one just makes your d@ck feel bigger
or theft you have clue about the materials and testing and quality of production and the amount of time ALG spent in testing and QC vs the garbage MAKO puts out…ok when you get a MAKO one let me know and we can test them
I have a lot of time shooting this mount the past year or so its a specific item
Outside of a few i don’t thing is many that have as many rounds on on this as i do,
it works with NVGs it works with x400 unit it works with pro mask it works off axis positions, it works with bunkers/shields,
It is top quality as expected from ALG
I can attest to Steve’s experience with the mount. He has been lording it over many of us for quite sometime.
HAHAHHAHHA
I think it is a robust system for the primary weapon and indeed appears to be capable of taking traumatic abuse.
holsters can be made quite easily now a days.
I’m all for the design
God bless the operators employing it’s use.
R
Forget Kim K’s greasy ass, this thing is going to break the internet. I’m surprised ALG’s site hasn’t crashed yet. Any idea when this thing is up for sale?
As soon as SSD had posted this I called ALG trying to order one, the receptionist(?) said mid February they would be available and no they were not taking preorders.
S/F
Nik
This guy could make use of the mount:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=228729&d=1419707562
Is this purpose built for an Aimpoint Micro or do other RDS fit? Not that I don’t love a T1, but I have an Insight mini RDS that I would like to repurpose. If the worst outcome is buying another Aimpoint, I can “live” with that.
it has multiply mounting options
Sold!
No it doesn’t. Not yet anyway. It is designed for the Aimpoint Micro. Some other sights, like the Primary Arms, that can use Aimpoint Micro mounts may also mount on this. Geissele stated that they intend to offer adapter plates eventually though.
So I’m thinking of putting an rmr on my concealed carry gun, but are field reports showing optic failures? I don’t want to invest 600+ in optics and milling if the optic isn’t rugged enough to last a lifetime or at least decent timeline.
This is the first I’ve heard of milled slide red dot failures.
there was problems with early versions of not only RMRs but other RDS on slide mounted optics based on the amount of violet g forces the optics takes when hitting the slide stop these issues for the most part have been corrected
Will the mount be Aimpoint specific?
Yes, but on the Geissele forum they said they intend to offer adapter plates.
Whats the purpose of that flap?
To avoid carbon?
Probably carbon gas fowling the optics
Looks ok, but lacks back up irons and will require specialty holsters. If it doesn’t acquire a large portion of the market I don’t see holsters happening unless they make them themselves
I think it’s kind of lame it’s only available for Gen 3s. Isn’t the unit whom this was designed for now using Gen 4 17s and 34s? And I’m curious why it wouldn’t work; those areas aren’t bigger on Gen 4s…
The controversy is silly. Go to a USPSA match. Frame mounted optics aren’t anything new. The only thing new about this is that it comes in FDE and takes a T-1.
Still not vest-fest legal though…
These would probably sell even more if they could get a company like Raven Concealment or G-Code to release a compatible holster at the same time. Maybe even offer a package? 😀
Raven has made a holster, there are photos of it out there. I e mailed them, and they don’t seem to have any intention at this time of releasing one to the public though. The problem with offering a package is that the light is still optional. I think the Inforce APL is the ticket for this, but many people don’t want a weapon light if it doesn’t say Surefire on the side.
Clue No. 1: The mount was rolled out under the ALG budget banner instead of Geissele.
Clue No. 2: They made a variant in purple.
I’m sure they’ll sell a few. It’s really kind of silly though. But I guess if high speed linear assaulter it’s a must have.
ALG is owned by a woman. If seeking a DOD contract that’s bonus points. The ALG brand makes basically everything in purple.