Earlier today MARCORSYSCOM issued “Request for Information (RFI) M67854-17-I-1218 For Marine Corps Systems Command (MARCORSYSCOM), Quantico, VA Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR)”. They are very clear at this point that is solely an initiation of market research under Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) Part 10 and is NOT a Request for Proposal (RFP). To be clear, issuing an RFI is a natural step in the acquisition process.
This action comes after a short duration experiment last Fall during which, an entire Marine Infantry Battalion was equipped with the IAR instead of their issue M4s. The experiment was obviously a success. At the time there was still no requirement but apparently, they’ve worked that out and lined up funding to make this happen.
As the RFI only calls for the production of an additional 11,000 rifles, this means that only additional select Infantrymen will be issued the M27. Conversely, the Marines purchased over 45,000 M4 carbines. When the M27 IAR was initially selected, the Marines had undertaken a study to determine what it would cost and how quickly the manufacturer H&K, could build the rifles in order to pure fleet the service. At the time, H&K did not have the production capacity to meet the Marine Corps’ fielding timeline so the plan was scrapped. This new move may very well be incremental in nature, with further fielding taking a longer timeline and encompassing a larger portion of the Marines.
The 5.56mm M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle is manufactured by Heckler & Koch. It is based on their HK416 carbine and was fielded to the Marines to supplant beltfed the M249 SAW in the Rifle Squad. This RFI will assuredly be used by SYSCOM to create a a sole-source “Justification and Approval” in order to purchase the rifles directly from manufacturer H&K without going for an open solicitation. While the RFI describes the M27’s salient characteristics to a “T”, what may throw a monkey wrench in this plan is if another manufacturer or two claim they can build the weapons as well with a model based on a 416 clone.
We will watch this procurement closely and keep you updated on its progress. Offerers have until March 17th at 3:00 PM to respond.
Tags: H&K
Glad to see this happen. I’ve read a lot of good things about the IAR.
Yeah, they’ll try to sole source it, but 11k rifles? That’s enough money to justify getting the lawyers involved and filing a protest. Based on response to the RFI though, I wonder if SYSCOM could use timeline as a justification, assuming H&K provides one aggressive enough that maybe only they could meet.
Pistons rule the world.
*awaits incoming flaming*
You’re right, you know.
Rotary lives forever!
/s
I cannot wait to see the DPMS and LAR offerings for this RFI.
I was thinking POF would have a chance.
Or Colt files an complaint and submits a overpriced carbine jut to hold up the process.
Hodge,
God Bless Amerika, sctew those domestic manufacturers. Correct
So would they just issue the automatic rifleman 60-round magazines for sustained fire? I mean how else do you designate a guy for that role if he’s got the same gun as everyone else?
Currently, they just make him carry ~20 magazines
>> would they just issue the automatic rifleman 60-round magazines for sustained fire?
Automatic rifles are not, and never were, intended for sustained fire because they aren’t machine guns.
Given a squad with everyone armed with self loaders and many 30 round magazines, it could be argued the AR role is obsolete.
You know who wouldn’t argue that? The Army that issues a 249 to their automatic riflemend.
So back to my original question. If the IAR replaces the 249 in the fire team, what–if anything- -do they do when the IAR replaces the M4/M16A4
Meanwhile, the Army couldn’t even be bothered to follow through with the M4A1+ upgrade.
Beat me to it…That was my first thought.
Apples and oranges comparison here. The Army does not own the technical data package on the M4, the manufacturer does. Any changes to it need to be approved by, and conform with, that manufacturers’ TDP. So you get an M4A1 as opposed to something better. Unless you feel like getting a lemon like the SASS was when first issued. At least with the M4A1 we are removing the variable trigger weight the burst trigger the M4 had.
I don’t see how it’s apples and oranges. The endstate the USMC seems to be striving for (more accurate weapon system for 03 series riflemen) is pretty much the same goal the Army was trying to achieve with the M4A1+ program. Seems to me that a joint upgrade program between the Army and Marines would be a better usage of taxpayer dollars, especially since it would be an accessory upgrade of a weapon system already fielded rather than a large scale purchase of the IAR.
Was the fact that Colt holds the TDP for the M4 an issue when the Army was considering the M4A1+ upgrade?
What you said makes sense, and normally that would be the way that the services do business. But the Marines have been in a procurement bonanza the past few years when it comes to individual weapons.
I can neither confirm nor deny Colt’s involvement in the M4A1+ program being scrapped. But in my opinion, it would definitely not have made the process any easier.
To be fair Army is currently buying M4A1s from FN and not Colt. So I am unsure how Colt fits into the M4A1+ “program/concept”? If I am wrong on this please let me know.
Additionally-change of subject here- the M4A1+ never should have been an issue if the Army had not invented a purposely ridiculous testing metric in the Individual Carbine Competition (that congress made them implement against their will) that no manufacturer on earth could have adhered to (let alone the Army’s darling M4 or M4A1) and then use the lack of achievement of this metric to “conclude” and not “cancel” the program.
The US Army could be shooting one of a handful or fantastic guns that would all be better than the current M4 or M4A1 but sadly the egos and bureaucracy of the Puzzle Palace on the Potomac, once again knowingly prevented Soldiers from getting the best.
Being former US Army, I have to respect this move. Simper Fi, Devil Dogs! Is the USMC going to issue Magpul D-60 magazines to every rifleman? Does this bring more firepower to the team and squad level?
Couple this with wanting to equip every Marine with suppressors, I like this move even more. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/18/marine-corps-experimenting-new-service-rifle.html
For the record, the current DI M4 is a fine weapon for most Combat Support, Combat Service Support and the remaining REMFs like me.
I’m really curious what you think going or the IAR is going to offer over a M4A1?
I imagine the SureFire magazines may be a better fit, just with respect to ease of carrying them over something drum shaped…
The Surefire 60-round magazine is far from reliable. It does not untilize a non-tilt follower. Consequently, jamming of rounds in the body of the magazine occurs.
My experience with the 60-round Surefire vs the MAGPUL 60-round drum has MAGPUL winning hands down, every time !
Surefire makes great illumination products. They should stick to what they know best.
I have no data on Surefire magazines but I do own a Magpul D-60. I’ve had zero issues w/ Magpul but it is slow to reload. I like it.
I concur. The Surefire magazines have been less than reliable. The Magpul drum is 100%
As I understand it, the Magpul 60-drum is vastly more reliable than the SF mags, which have been plagued with reliability issues. Not to mention the MC’s recent decision to buy PMAG for the IAR, I’d say the Magpul route is the likely way things will go.
Corps Wants to Put Silencers on a Whole Infantry Battalion
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/22/corps-put-silencers-whole-infantry-battalion.html
Don’t believe everything you read.
Good point.
The Marines that are currently deployed in Norway seem to all have suppressors on their M4s- at least the ones photographed walking off the plane. Realize it’s most likely a trail, but it’s interesting none the less.
I will if you post it!
Great way to destroy a lot of guns really fast.
Giving it to grunts is a great way to destroy anything, though.
Replacing suppressors and rifles is cheaper than paying for long term hearing loss.
In my understanding the move was more for ease of communication in a firefight rather than combating hearing loss, as if you’re on patrol you’re technically supposed to bring hearing protection.
Make no mistake, hearing loss is one of the top VA claims. I wouldn’t be surprised if hearing loss and comms are both part of the discussion.
That’s not a thing, in my experience.
I’d like to understand better what advantages the M27 demonstrated as a general issue rifle during the recent 29 Palms experiment. What little I’ve seen is complimentary of the M27’s superior accuracy and effective range when compared to a standard M4, factors that are largely attributable to the free float handguard and rail system. I’d be curious to see how the M27 stacks up against a SOPMOD Block 2 M4A1, and whether simply adopting a free float handguard (like the DD RIS II) for general issue provides the sought after performance benefits (at a much lower price).
increased muzzle velocity in the M27
Apart from the rifle, there needs to be a Manhattan Project to get the combat load down for Marines and Soldiers. Doesn’t have to be a strictly gear based solution, but that would have to be part of it. I experience pain every time I see pics of those guys in the field, even sans rucks. Is the force over-accessorized?
I dunno man, as an aside off topic chat and experience in RAINF I can assure you any weight saved will be made up with carriage of more consumables.
Yep, every ounce saved is more weight free to carry other stuff
The only real way to cut down Soldier carrying weight is to ensure resupply whenever and wherever( AKA delivery drones like the snow goose)
Basically soldiers since Rome have carried roughly the same amount of weight, the question is not the weight but what capability you have because of it.
Great read by S.L.A. Marshall
https://www.amazon.com/Soldiers-Load-Mobility-Nation/dp/0686310012
Please don’t take anything Marshall says seriously.
The soldiers load is examined more soberly here:
https://www.dst.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/documents/DSTO-TN-1051.pdf
http://militarymedicine.amsus.org/doi/pdf/10.7205/MILMED.169.1.45
Thanks for the links.
I’ve always maintained that the whole point of this was to get 416s into the hands of Marines. I am always amazed at how efficient the USMC is at getting what they want. Bravo
If that’s the long game, well played.
Interesting. Surefire 60rnd mags don’t work, and I just don’t see how u replace a belt fed system in that role. Would love to see a lighter belt fed like the Ares upper or Knights LMG get a look….. unless this is just a ploy to get 416s? And I am curious to see how this will go, a $4k+ 416 compared to a $300 Colt.
The marines won’t pay $4k the way manufactures make their money is in the parts and maintainance contracts that go with the weapons
A government purchased 416 cost no where near $4k. I don’t have the current gov. price handy. Are they more expensive than an M4, yes, modestly. some of that cost increase could be done away with by simply going with an upper swap, cutting out the cost of a new lower that is only a slightly different in appearance Mil-Spec lower.
Now, on the civilian market, $4k for a 416 upper has become the norm, that is true.
When I submitted for IAR, it was clear that this was the ultimate goal. And like most fedbiz solicitations, it was clear they already picked the 416.
I tried to read most of this, but got lost in the mess. No one brought up the new US factory, at least not in depth? I couldn’t stop thinking about these being good practice for new employees before they make the new 433 that will be a big mover for civis.
The new factory, well, that’s a good one.
Did I miss something? Seemingly reliable people on hkpro have been talking about it being done in 1-2 years. Is that not likely?
yes, the expanded factory in Georgia, that is alleged to be up and running by 4th quarter of this year.
HK announced recently that they are investing $30,000,000 in their Columbus, GA manufacturing facility, bringing in both German and Americans to increase their domestic manufacturing capacity. M110 CSASS, HK433, and now this news coming within a relatively short time frame. I don’t think one has to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots here.
What baffles me is why all the hate over on the M4Carbine.net forum for HK in general, HK piston driven ARs in specific and even the rather routine blasts directed at SSD.
Weirdness abounds.