Earlier today in an internal message to the Secret Service, Director James Murray announced the adoption of the same technology as recently selected by the US Customs and Border Protection, the 9mm Glock 19 MOS Gen 5.
Everyone in Secret Service, including uniformed division members, will be issued the G19 MOS Gen 5 9mm to replace their current SIG 229 pistol in .357.
Additionally, SOD will issue the G47 MOS Gen 5 and G26 Gen 5 in 9mm.
Members will receive new equipment training and be issued the new sidearm along with Pistol light and Holster.
The weapons will be purchased off of the CBP contract and transition will be completed by 2021.
Bro! My TL is fired the F&$% UP about this news! Knock down power is a big thing for us and he had several times during the War in Saudi were 9 mil didn’t cut it! They had to use hollowpoints to get the same result after a double tap.
¯\_(?)_/¯
Knockdown power? 1997 wants it’s gun myth back.
It’s a joke…
Good to see you back, Horshack. We hadn’t heard from you in awhile, and I was getting worried you were KIA taking doors.
BRO! We been crashing doors HARD! My ATL got hung up clearing the fatel funnel once but we been encorporating k9! I handed my TL the long gun and we cleared it bro!
Dude, where you been? We could have used your insight when the tactical hand warmer was being advertised on here and then the whole blow-up over whether it is okay to bust on companies who advertise stupid products. We all know you crash doors HARD so it’s good to get a Subject Matter Expert’s (SME) opinion on these new products. Tell your TL you need some down time to spread the knowledge!
I wonder what light they are going to go with
X300
This is great news for the tax payer. At least a Million saved in testing and acquisition costs. CBP and the guys at Harper’s have really stepped up their armory and procurement game. Good work! What a blow to ICE who just a few years ago very effectively administered large Service Level Agreements for DHS firearms and ammunition. Hopefully CBP will fill the void created by ICE and continue to make DHS wide procurements that save the taxpayer big bucks and meet the needs of the law enforcement officers and agents in the DHS!
FYI, It’s Customs and Border Protection not Border Patrol. Yeah, the big green machine is indeed powerful, just not powerful enough (yet) to change the agency’s name to which its funds are appropriated.
Another nail in the coffin for the “boutique” 357sig cartridge. Sad trend. It would’ve been nice to see the USSS stay with 357sig in a pistol with a similar grip angle to their old p229, which would be the Sig p320, or HK vp40-b with a 357sig barrel.
So now we have the Army, Marines, AF, Navy, CG, and ICE/HSI using the Sig p320.
And the FBI, Border Patrol, and now USSS using Glocks.
Surely there’s room for a federal contract on the HK vp-b pistol.
So we should accomodate HK just to make life fair? Maybe if they answered the phone at customer service once in a while they’d win a contract. Then we’d have a pistol that has little to no aftermarket support. Seems like a good plan. I’m glad the internet doesnt decide these things.
I’m a dyed in the wool Glock fanboy but please don’t regurgitate what you read ten years ago on ARFCOM. HK has numerous, stellar examples of CS and while the HK aftermarket will never approach the size that Glock enjoys, mostly due to price, HK fans have a decent amount of reputable aftermarket-space.
Maybe if you were a PD in 2005 you had valid CS issues with HK but we are fortunate to enjoy decent support from the major companies and brands.
Last year USSS ran a wide open 5.56mm rifle procurement to replace the MP5. Everyone said it was HK’s to lose. HK didn’t even submit.
I’ll translate for you: “some federal agencies already use older HK pistol models as their standard issue, so it’s reasonable to think they could win a new contract at some point with their vp-B pistol”.
I don’t even own any HK products, so I have no dog in the fight, but it’s a very good pistol and I’m sure they’ll get an LE agency contract at some point. Beretta’s APX models are also good pistols.
It would’ve been great news for the taxpayer if Border Patrol (CBP) had NOT wasted money in their recent testing of pistols and ammo, and just trusted the DoD’s testing, and DHS’ decision making, on pistols and ammo- which was that the Glocks and Sig p320s are essentially so close overall that price should be the decider.
Again, all Border Patrol (CBP) had to do was compare pricing between Glock and Sig’s p320, and go with the lower bidder. An obvious advantage to the p320 is a similar grip angle to their old p229.
So far, all the leaked info claims the Border Patrol’s recent pistol testing showed the Glocks and Sig p320s TIED on all objective testing, and that Glock won by a small margin on the subjective (preference) portion- price.
These CBP test results mimic the Army’s MHS pistol results, so hopefully no more taxpayer money is wasted on “testing” of pistols for federal agencies.
I’m not sure you understand how the contracting process actually works. That all sounds great in theory, flawed in application.
CBP test results may not mimic the Army’s MHS quite like you think. Check the CBP Force Mod page. They posted the Glock test results. Malfunctions?- A single failure to feed in the G26. Ask another vendor for the same test results and see if you get them. They each own their results and could release them, but I’m guessing that you wont get a copy.
We know from credible guys like Ash Hess, and from the DoD MHS test, and Border Patrol test, that the glock and p320 are equally good and that it comes down to subjective things like price. Pick your flavor, Glock or Sig. Both will serve equally well.
It gets silly when people start to argue that one is clearly superior. I’ve owned more than a few of both, and they’re equally reliable.
https://ssdaily.tempurl.host/2019/04/15/the-cbp-pistol-program-was-close/
Don’t take my word. Request and compare their results.
Except CBP does not own the test results from NIJ. Glock, Sig, etc., do, because the companies, not CBP, paid for them. CBP cannot release them without permission from the owning party.
Means the companies can use them in their own marketing now, for applying to other contracts, glossy magazine ads, etc., and save other agencies testing money in future, but until they do, FOIA requests are gonna be stonewalled, because CBP doesn’t own the information.
My point is that Glock already released their test results and they’re available to anyone. They’re posted and available for every CBP employee to see and share.
CBP will never release any other test results and they shouldn’t. Those test results are no longer relevant to CBP and I’m sure they didn’t ask for them to be released. But anyone who wants to make statements about equal performance should request the results from the manufacturers and compare. My real point is that I’m sure Glock will share theirs (as they already have). I’m not sure you’ll see the same from another manufacturer.
Yeah but if you actually read into the MHS cluster and not listen to people being supported by Sig it was a giant waste of money. Especially when SOCOM has had such success with Glock, both COTS and traditional acquisitions. I’m not saying the P320 is a lousy gun but there existed 20+ year of successful Glock testing and performance, plus the fact the Glock has been part of the GWOT since the beginning with an excellent combat record going back past Kosovo.
And I’m not saying we should not try new things. But if you have a black sports car and a red sports car… but the black car has a cheaper, less-intensive way to get the keys…
CBP wasted money testing? How much do you think CBP spent to award this $85M contract? If you guess anything more than $30K you’ll be very wrong. Nearly all costs for the testing were paid by the vendors that submitted their handguns for consideration.
Test data was equal? Glock published their CBP test data….mind reaching out to Sig to see if they’ll publish theirs?
Except this was not done in similar fashion to other contracts. Glock owns the test results, not CBP. Se goes for any other company that submitted. The companies themselves paid for it. They can submit those same results to any agency they like. However, the military contract was not written that way. DOD owned the results, and they WEREN’T free to disseminate it without being in breach of contract, and neither was Sig. Even had the DID been willing to allow CBP to ride their contract, it’s not clear that the contract itself would have allowed it.
Then too, is the fact that CBP and other civilian agencies have different requirements than a military contract. A manual safety was a disqualifier; handguns are a secondary weapon at best for soldiers, but usually a primary for cops. The military wanted a safety; the M17 version of the Sig 320 has one, but many agencies don’t want one, because that pistol has to be ready to go the moment it clears the holster. Riding off the military contract, even had that been an option, would have gotten them a gun they didn’t want. And then there’s the option for a red dot sight, which I do not believe was covered in the DOD contract at all.
In short, while both the Glocks and the M17 are, I’m sure, good guns, they incorporate features for different roles, are optimized for those different roles and requirements, and the contracts themselves were written in totally different manners.
I’ll add, the rumor and scuttlebutt I heard was that Sig and Glock had the two lowest failure rates of the 6? 8? companies that submitted. Agent preference was for the Glock in hands-on trials, but barely. However, Glock supposedly underbid Sig considerably. It would be hard to beat Glock’s reliability record, although possible to equal it. Without having seen Sig’s results, we’ll be generous and assume they did equal the reliability of the Glock. It’s reasonable to assume anyway, since finalists were selected based on results, not price. Agent preference was also really close, so we’ll call that essentially equal as well. All else being equal, and we can rationally assume such to be so, price wins.
We (or I, at least) have no confirmation on who else submitted. CZ would be an obvious candidate; their new P10 line looks dredged directly from the contract requirements, but no confirmation. S&W would have been stupid not to apply. The same goes for FN, HK, and several others. I know there were at least six candidates, maybe even eight, but unless the companies themselves release the NIJ results, CBP is under non-disclosure, even internally.
G19 is a solid choice. Easy (and cheap) to maintain and repair, tons of accessories/holsters available.
G26 is also a good choice for those who need a smaller package.
G47?…Ridiculous! Isn’t it just a G17 with a shorter dust cover?
Yes, which is what makes it not ridiculous at all. Use the 47 frame and 19 slide, voila’ you have just made the finest service pistol made, the Glock 45. Use the 47 slide and 19 frame? You have duty length slide and a compact grip aka Glock 19L. Due to Gen 5 improvements the only thing different between these 4 variants is the frame, slide and barrel making the logistics a bit easier when acquiring spare parts. The Glock 26 is a niche weapon with few actual users so the fact it uses different magazines and some other parts is not as big a deal.
Yes it is but it uses the recoil spring assembly from a Glock 19 from my understanding. One less part of your keeping track of a large number of guns. Plus I’m assuming if they have a need (or want) for mixing and matching slides and frames it’s plug and play.
I want glock to start selling the 47 because t will allow you to build 4 different configurations from pistols. Buy a 47 and 19. You can reassemble them into a 45 and a “19L”.
So…the G47 is a great idea, just so people can frankenstein a 19L together?
You know Glock will just market a 19L on their own…they will call it the G100!
Great choice, as the myth of knockdown power of a 357 round has been thrown out the window with the advent of modern defensive ammo. That said, the next question is “what ammo will they be using?” The FBI has chosen Hornady’s Critical Defense ammo after extensive testing, so hopefully the Secret Service will follow suit and save us all some $$$.
I agree with whoever mentioned the ergonomics of the P320 being a more natural transition from the P229. Also, it appears different roles/assignments will be issued a different model better suited to a specialized assignment. That means either issuing a new serial number/pistol or exchanging their agency wide issued model 19. I would give the nod to Sig with the removable chassis over Glock for this function. The USSS is small so maybe it isn’t administratively intensive (accountable property management) to be an issue.
The 357 Sig is ballistically better than the 9mm, but at what cost, and for how much better? 357 Sig has increased muzzle blast, recoil, and less magazine capacity in comparable 9mm magazine sizes. If moving to a modern polymer pistol, retaining the 357 Sig round would probably further degrade shooter performance as it would induce even more recoil with a lighter weight pistol. I have shot the 357 Sig out of a Glock, I can be honest with myself and say it isn’t as pleasant as 9mm and definately takes more time to get your sights back on target.
Another consideration would be the 357 Sig is a more expensive round. Switching to the 9mm also gives them the ability to run the same ammunition through their MP5 platform. One less round to inventory/track and less cost.
I own both a P320 and Glock in 9mm. Both are excellent. I give the nod in accuracy to the Sig as the X-carry model I have which has a tighter slide to barrel fit than the regular 320, similar to the XM17 from what SIg has said. I give the nod to Glock for having every imaginable duty holster, concealed carry holster, accessory ect available without wait or search. Both would of served well, it probably came down to price as mentioned.
Looking at the CBP models, I would like the 47 as a civilian but I expect with the contract to fill, we have as much of chance of seeing that as an actual Glock 19M.
Don’t write it off too soon. Glock has the manufacturing capacity and the method down to an art form. They made over a million 43s in how short a time? And as far as I know, every single one made in Smyrna, Georgia?
The CBP/DHS contract is for around 80 thousand guns, IIRC. That’s a few months of production. Unless it is contracted as a “LEO only” model, expect to see them hit shelves in a year or so.
I own Glocks and Sigs of most sizes and calibers. I typically use Glocks as my daily driver and Sigs to showoff at the Range. That said, the Secret Service has specific requirements. P229s in .357 Sig met those most of requirements in the most reasonable way possible. If it was me I’d prefer a double stack 1911or 2011 in the same caliber which is not feasible for them. The 9mm doesn’t have the penetration or range needed in scenarios they are likely presented with. However, I’m sure the agents will appreciate the reduced maintenance and weight. They probably won’t be cool with the decreased accuracy and failure rate after firing thousand rounds through the gun.
“9mm doesn’t have the penetration or the range needed in the scenarios they are likely to be presented with.” This is laughable, what is the basis for this statement?
Decreased accuracy? The Gen 5 glocks are the most accurate ever made.
Failure rate? In reality it’s the .357sig serves primarily as a mechanism to destructively test your pistol.
Given the steps forward in ballistic design there is no reason to be shooting .357sig out of a pistol, unless you want to wear it out as fast as possible or impress your friends shooting steel at 175 yds on the flat range. The round needs a long barrel to achieve its true potential. Glock 35 with a conversion barrel for hunting, sure. Chamber an SMG in .357sig? Sign me up. Now you have a legit capability enhancement.
I think the agents will be happiest about the fact that they now have a pistol with a rail on it. Sad that it took this long for all the hairbags that felt like the ‘plastic pistol thing is a fad” to retire or just go away.
This has become a 9mm world. For general purpose use everything else has become white noise.