Based on what’s going on in the Crimea, LAV thought SSD readers might be interested in this video his crew shot for TAC-TV. It features an interesting set of shooting confidence drills that are reportedly practiced by the Russian FSB which is the current name of what was once the infamous KGB..
DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. The drills depicted here are particularly dangerous and shared for educational purposes only.
Tags: LAV, Russia, Tac TV, Vickers Tactical
Funny I saw this yesterday on his channel.. They do things differently there, but there a few US influences there also.. Even the targets.
Sweet ND during the second drill.
I have a feeling it wasn’t an ND, but a warning to back f#%k up or you will be shot.
Definitely an ND and not a warning . . .
I watched it a couple times. I was on the fence until he did it again during crowd control. It’s a warning shot telling people to backup.
I thought the same about a ND, but is clearly intentional… although I don’t understand the fucking reason.
More worried that they train to put bullets not on the guy shooting at them, but slightly to the side. And waiting three shots on the chest before fighting back or reaching cover?
Definitely intentional. BTFU warning for sure.
Agreed on it being intentional, I thought it was a ND at first but then watching the slow-mo I saw that his finger was clearly off of the trigger during most of the drill and was brought onto the trigger when he made that (warning?) shot. Interesting techniue for sure but it only works when you’re on dirt or sand, I’m not so sure it would be such a good thing on a hard surface like concrete.
“More worried that they train to put bullets not on the guy shooting at them, but slightly to the side. And waiting three shots on the chest before fighting back or reaching cover?”
It’s a drill. A few minutes out of thousands of training hours isn’t going to engrained that sort of defect. Not everything has to be “reality” to be functional.
Well, that’s why other countries spend money in Force on Force equipment and training, not only for safety but for “feeling” being shoot and shooting on moving/fighting targets.
And yes, is just a drill, but that kind of drill requires training with paper targets and they should be making the same.
Hey fellas, hold my beer, I got some shooting drills to show ya!
Lol I have a feeling your pretty close. just change beer out with Vodka. Im surprised they actually shoot this well. Usually all you see are pointless drills on toughness and nice rehearsed martials drills and they ability to shoot belt fed machine guns shirtless while remembering to camo their face. It’s obvious where they come from but also obvious they graduated up a little bit.
I can’t comment on the shooting drills, but those “pointless drills on toughness” aren’t pointless. There’s a mentality at play especially in Systema that is inherently different from Krav Maga or any other martial art I’ve participated in. From my limited knowledge of Systema, psychological training and indoctrination into a certain mindset is the key to effectiveness and perseverance. I remember almost pissing my pants in anxiety the first time I was told to hold a live blade to my instructor’s face for a demonstration, but I can assure you from my limited experience that it isn’t just for a “measuring contest”. All that stuff breeds healthy levels of confidence and calm under duress- the stakes are just a lot higher if things go wrong on either end.
I don’t doubt that they help one stay calm in less stressful situations but I know cops who have never been in such brutal training that have the calmness of a monk in some really scary situations just through being in shape and mentally rehearsing scenarios. The Israelis special ops units, Rangers, Recon Marines, Army SF or any other unique unit that adds bad conditions to their training to weed people out have reputations for being calm when the shit hits the fan. SEALs, SAS and Delta bring the image of calm under fire to mind. The difference? They don’t spend countless hours doing rehearsed public displays breaking boards with jumping kicks and head butts and standing around with camo painted faces while their buddy kicks them in the stomach. Combat rolls, jumping through flaming rings, and taking turns laying under an APC as it passes over still seem pointless to me.
“jumping through flaming rings”
For flame-based training, Google “NSG Blackcats India.” I guess that’s what you do when you don’t get helicopters and shoot houses to play with.
And yes, Russians are (objectively) weird. But, they have their reasons. Those are usually well-researched. And I’m not going to discount off-hand the methods of the same country that developed nearly all the sports, conditioning, and “sportschology” training methodology that was universally adopted by everyone else 50 years later.
JohnC,
Beat me to it.
Bman, I agree with you, and there are some guys who are just as you say under extreme stress, but that is such a small number of individuals in the population. I think that the learning curve becomes extremely high when you train for “keeps”, and people who understand the risks benefit quite well from stress training that can carry the chance of injury. Yes, stress inoculation is essential, and nothing hits home quite like the realization that your instructor really means it when they say something that ends with the casual “if you don’t do this right you will suffer serious bodily injury or death.”
I guess the Russians just have an even more direct way of saying it by placing living people next to their targets: “don’t mess up and put a flyer on that target, or you’re going to be cleaning your buddy’s brains off the deck”. That would definitely up the stakes for anyone instantly if they have half a brain. It’s a different way of training- and a really steep learning curve- but I can imagine that it inspires great confidence in the men who train together and builds incredible amounts of cohesion amongst the men.
There’s definitely a bravado that the Russians have when it comes to their military, but that comes with the history of the culture. They’re very different for sure, but extremely proficient in what they do if the video shows us anything. I wouldn’t discredit any of the training in the video without first understanding the methodology behind it, but that’s just me. It would be great if LAV could elaborate on the rationale behind some of the techniques demonstrated and also the reason that this particular type of confidence drill is preferred over others.
All of you guys made good points and I don’t doubt for a second that FSB and MVD special units are some dangerous dudes or the average spetznaz dude for that matter. In the end, I just don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze. I look at types of stuff our conventional forces and some super human feats here and there and then to read how Rangers, SF and SEALs, SAS/SBS, Royal Marines, Aussie Commandos and SAS deal with tough and complex situations and missions and I have to wonder could the Russians be accomolishing more if they focused more training improving individual skills rather than spending so much time on toughness training and stress.
How many NDs were there, 1 or 2? Or more? That Western concept of trigger finger discipline apparently hasn’t made it there yet.
After the Nord-Osk theater debacle, now they are worried about collateral damage. In Russia, where they charge for toilet paper in public crappers.
Like above, those werent NDs. You can see him do it several times. Every other point in the video he has has his finger indexed perfectly on the frame of the pistol and both times he “NDs” hes in the same stance and you can visible see him cant the pistol away as well as squeeze a round off. I dont speak russian, but i imagine hes saying something in regards to “f&%k off”. They may do things different but Im sure they wouldnt be as notorious as they are if he NDed all the time. They are shooting within inches of each other, NDs cannot and do not happen at this level.
“I dont speak russian, but i imagine hes saying something in regards to ‘f&%k off'”
Correct. It’s a deliberate attempt at crowd control.
Also: Glocks!? (And whatever that other one was.)
Strizh. Arsenal is supposed to be releasing (?) them in the US as the Strike 1 pistol. I’d like to try them out.
I can get behind the idea of “The Hot Seat”, but this is a little much.
He says “Nazad!”, this is just “Get back!” or “Back off!”. All his behavior looks like a PSD in a crowd.
Just another reason to never go in my book. I still catch flack for not wanting to go to New York because of their gun laws
Not really having a problem with the drills at all. Did notice an Arsenal Strike One pistol in most of the scenes. I REALLY want to get my hands on one of those. Minimal recoil, good capacity, several colors/finishes. Whats not to love.
Does this make a more effective operator? As we always state, we should train like we fight.
Yes. I “know” guys and gals that have done these drills / courses. They all got hired on to Southern Bell as operators.
Definitely interesting to see those drills. It’s amazing to see the training mindset differences. It’s dangerous for sure, but you can’t deny the stress inoculation they are putting the shooter through. Thanks for putting this up.
I heard that successfil completion of these drills is now required to graduate Florida phase of Ranger School
I heard that it’s with an M2. And a full belt. Man I’m scared to go ranger school.
I’m just curious why they couldn’t do the same thing with simunition. Have multiple people stand around and one or multiple aggressors in the crowd. Aggressor draws his weapon and takes a shot. Trainee can draw once he sees a weapon and find cover first or engage on the spot–it’s his call.
Still builds confidence that you can be shot and rely on your armor or adrenaline to fight through it and take out the threat. And it also gives them some practice making the split second decision of cover first or return fire.
Afterward, you could mark the hits on the trainee and they’ll see how they did.
I feel like an idiot for not thinking of that but they probably thought of it already and made the decision to do it the dumb way rather than safe way.
Apparently simunitions cost more than actual ammo as there is a bigger demand for lethal ammunition.
The first drill is ridiculous in its risk vs. reward. “99 out of 100, I’m a 10 ringer”. But no one is 100% ALL the time. As LAV said, (sic) “I don’t see us using this one the U.S.”.
Not a safe drill aside, if you did this too many times you might develop a training scare to hesitate before drawing.
Debating stupid, is well, sort of stupid, but for those in the “warning shot” camp, how many degrees of angle is the shooter away from shooting his own foot, knee, femoral artery, or junk, or sending splatter or a ricochet into himself or somebody else?
The Russians have never been known as being very concerned for the well-being of their personnel. It isn’t like they are going to run out of conscripts. And it probably saves a lot of time otherwise spent on writing risk assessments and emergency response plans.
Don’t forget that when considering this as a warning shot, we have to think about where that bullet is going next. Pretty hard to control a bullet’s impact once it’s ricochet has changed its path.
Lol Risk? The only risk they know is they mighf lose the fight. Not the people. response plan is either pull back or send more conscripts. Ha ha
I didn’t realize 5.11 apparel was available in Russia.
It’s available EVERYWHERE
Everyone loves a “5.11 Tuxedo”
Interesting, definitely different, but then again it’s the Russians and they tend to deal with things a little differently. BTW, that guy is a FSB Alpha Group Member, not some conscript that just came of the streets. And I seriously doubt that they would want to be represented on TV, especially a US channel hosted by a Former Delta Operator, by some newbie. I will say this, the off air conversations have to priceless, would like to be a fly on the wall for those conversations.
“A Russia only drill” is my new favorite expression.
I’ve never had the experience of taking a 9 mil in a hard plate. Any ideas of what it’s like?
I bet Chuck Taylor knows.
Oh Yeah well we Raise your Russian Spec Ops Drill with this Russian HAZ MAT Drill!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1LGKieTxY&feature=youtu.be
🙂
That was a highway accident, not a HAZMAT drill. You get no points
I’m skeptical of this video, and believe they are using simmunition for the following reasons:
1. Nobody takes a 9mm round to an E-SAPI plate without so much as flinching. It’s still like getting punched REALLY hard in the chest.
2. Multiple rounds to an area that small on body armor, even with the plate AND with soft inserts, AND it being 9mm, still poses a significantly high probability of defeating that armor.
3. The weapons being used in many of the scenes have bright yellow tagging or markings on the side of the slides. I was suspicious that these could be markings which denote it as a training aid, or in use of a simmunition slide and barrel, much like our blue sim-weapons in the US.
Any thoughts??
I’m skeptical of this video, and believe they are using simmunition for the following reasons:
1. Nobody takes a 9mm round to an E-SAPI plate without so much as flinching. It’s still like getting punched REALLY hard in the chest.
2. Multiple rounds to an area that small on body armor, even with the plate AND with soft inserts, AND it being 9mm, still poses a significantly high probability of defeating that armor.
3. The weapons being used in many of the scenes have bright yellow tagging or markings on the side of the slides. I was suspicious that these could be markings which denote it as a training aid, or in use of a simmunition slide and barrel, much like our blue sim-weapons in the US.
Any thoughts?
I would say the coloured tape on the slides is a friend or foe indicator.