If you find yourself this far into any over-schedule undertaking such as replacing the camouflage for the US Army, you will constantly hear rumors of anticipated announcement dates and speculative pattern types. Why, just a week or so ago I was told that the Army was going to make a camouflage decision on May 5th.
At this point I’m jaded, so I flippantly shrugged the information off. After all, hadn’t the Army just started their reexamination of the entire camouflage process a mere two months ago? And hadn’t Phase IV taken two years? Two months vs two years. It just didn’t add up. Not to mention rumored announcement dates that kept shifting to the right. Plus, May 5th? Seriously? Cinco de Mayo? What an arbitrary date, especially with the U.S. Army’s birthday coming up in June.
Then, I get a cryptic email yesterday morning. During a briefing to industry, the Commander of the Defense Logistics Agency, VADM Harnitchek announced that the Army had in fact made a camouflage decision but unfortunately, he did not know which pattern had been selected. Even if he had, as a Navy Admiral. it wasn’t his place to tell the Army’s story. The meeting was a buzz with speculation.
At this point I was thinking, “Finally, a decision…any decision.”
Who knows if the choice was actually made on Cinco de Mayo or not, but wouldn’t it be ironic if it had been? Think about it. A decision of that importance would’ve been much easier to make over a couple of shots of tequila.
But I’ve gone on long enough leading you up to the punch line of this post.
Today, Col Robert Mortlock, Program Manager for Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment at PEO Soldier showed up to discuss Army programs. He’s just finished addressing a large ballroom filled with representatives from the military services and the industrial base that serves them. Everyone came into the room waiting to hear, right from the proverbial horse’s mouth, which Course Of Action the Army is going to take. Would it press the ‘easy button’ and choose OCP (MultiCam)? Or maybe MARPAT? Or Navy AOR? Or perhaps the Army would defy the NDAA and introduce the fabled Digital Transitional Pattern (pixelated MultiCam)? Would they be bold and go old school, announcing they had reconsidered a 2003 decision and adopt Scorpion? Or would the Senior Service just stick with status quo and remain in the dreaded UCP for garrison wear and OCP for the remainder of OEF?
Lots of options on the table.
To be sure, I’ve been hard on the Army and in particular PEO Soldier as well as COL Mortlock. While he doesn’t make the decision, his office is in charge of presenting data to those who do.
Frustration for all is high. This whole camouflage improvement effort has lasted through three different PEOs and the delays are literally running companies that support the military out of business. Tension is high throughout industry as well as the operational forces. The announcement of a decision will be welcomed with a huge sigh of relief by all, including me.
Despite rumor after rumor that COL Mortlock would tell the assembled industry group what the Army had decided (for planning purposes of course) I was skeptical. And rightfully so. Repeatedly I’ve been told that a camouflage announcement is one for the Secretary of the Army to make. Turns out, I was right. At least, sort of.
While the US Army has made a definitive transitional camouflage decision (my words, not theirs), the official announcement of that decision is yet to be made. And, as I understand, it won’t be a large scale announcement but rather a soft launch. They will replace equipment as it wears out. That works great for OCIE but it’s a tough one for ACUs in garrison. I’m still unclear of how that will go down.
Soldiers deploying to Operation Enduring Freedom will continue to wear the currently issued OCP (MultiCam). However, at the beginning of the new fiscal year, the Army will take up an effort to once again look to establish a family of camouflage patterns with the advent of an additional round of testing. The New Transitional Camouflage Pattern will become the Army standard and the ACU will remain the issue uniform, just in a new camouflage pattern. Based in the additional testing, in FY 15, the Army plans to establish a path forward for the bookend patterns, establishing a full family of patterns. I’ll add that in this decision the Army has complied with the 2014 NDAA ‘a stipulations on camouflage (Enyart Amendment).
If you’re a skeptic like me you’re going to say, “I’ve heard something similar before, what makes this different?” You’re right to be leery but this time it’s been said publicly by a PM. After all that’s happened, he’s not going to say something that isn’t so. I believe it and look forward to the announcement, in whatever for it takes.
I have a very high degree of confidence that I know what the Transitional Camouflage Pattern decision is and I am happy with it. But, once again, I defer to the Army to inform us of their decision. Or, as in the past, until someone else spills the beans first.
Tags: Camo Wars
Thanks for staying on top of this! Looking forward to the “news” (if any)…
Personally I’m hoping for multicam…we shall see.
Didi I read that correctly that the current pattern would be replaced with a new camo pattern in FY15? Makes sense to keep the same uniform but with a different camo pattern (soft launch).
No words can describe how I feel about this nightmare. Being an “insider” who certainly has pissed a few people off in reporting on all this, SSD, we appreciate you keeping us up to date with the rollercoaster ride this has been.
No comment.
Thanks for your valuable input
They could have chosen a “predator” suit. At this point it doesn’t matter and it is just a huge representation of how our federal decision process is flawed.
One way to save money, as mentioned on another post, would be to issue the ACU in a solid color. O.D., coyote, FDE, ranger green or what have you, it’s cheaper to vat dye fabric than to print a pattern on it. With the issue of the Army Combat Shirt and Army Combat Pant (Army Combat Ensemble?, ACE makes a good acronym) there isn’t really a need to issue it in UCP, OCP, PCP or whatever the pattern of the day is.
For garrison wear, I think that makes a lot of sense. I don’t really need a combat uniform; I need a fatigue uniform in the old WWII sense. Something like the Coasties’ ODU would work just fine for 90% of the Air Force.
Heck, I’ve been saying this for years! Just start re-issuing the old OG 107’s. Then, when Joe has to deploy, give him a can of spray paint in the predominant color of the AO. Voila, instant camo!
So just to clarify – they officially know what is going to replace UCP?
That’s what they are saying
Second only to the Army, you sir are a master of suspense!
I really hope the Army does the right thing and selects MultiCam. But to think all this could have been avoided had the Army selected the winner of Phase IV this time last year. Or even better never forced UCP to begin.
Since things with Crye fell through the cracks, I see three possible outcomes. Multicam in digital print, US4CES or MARPAT for all. Let’s hope for this June 14th this time around.
“UCP is a vastly superior camouflage” Ashley Schaeffer
Wooo!
I feel the camouflage anticipation down in my plums…bluish hue…
It’s Quantum Stealth, isn’t it?!!! lololololol
Is the Air Force listening?
I believe it is but they seem to love the ABU as a garrison uniform.
Why would they get rid of a uniform so that’s light and comfortable yet still conducive to maintainance and security forces operations?
They as in the leadership. 90% of the Air Force can’t stand the ABU.
That was sarcasm brother :). I’d rather go to work in a Horsehead, web-belt and steel-toe boots than that burlap abomination we’re forced to wear.
You know they did come out with an authorized “summer weight” 50/50 NYCO ripstop version of the ABU over a year ago right? It feels and wears pretty much the same as the old NYCO summer BDU’s. Nothing can fix the pattern, but at least they finally got the material right.
You’re right, the material is better, but the pattern still sucks. Although we aren’t the worst in the world; saw a couple of Singapore Airman today. Now thats a TERRIBLE camo pattern!
I still say if the army goes multicam, the air force should go the digital tiger stripe in the multicam colors.
https://ssdaily.tempurl.host/2012/01/10/tiger-stripe-products-introduces-all-terrain-tiger-in-conjunction-with-atlantco-at-shot-show/
Awesome
You know something’s wrong when your contractor puts up a page on their website apologizing for not being allowed to deliver a decent product.
At this point in the game, I really hope the Air Force ditches it’s vane identification efforts and adopts what the Army does and calls it good. One set of camouflage worked for all branches for decades. Tiger striping seems like a gimmick.
SSD, What does Crye have to say about this latest news?
I cannot speak on behalf of Crye but it is my impression that they have put the popcorn in the microwave and are melting the butter.
okay, that’s speaks a mouthful.
I see what you did there.
That one made my day!
Cryptic. Sounds more like spectatin’ than celebratin’.
But I guess references to champagne on ice would be too obvious…
Funny enough, I spoke via phone with Crye today on unrelated matters…is there ANY Scorpion camo ACUs out in the wild???…but mentioned the Army/Multicam fiasco. The response was a chuckle and being told it gets even more interesting. Means nothing to me but humor at this point. It was on a positive tone and came across as something developed…but that is based on overall conversation and nothing direct.
…connecting the dots…
Damn running sentences…I tell ya, straps! I haven’t had a APFT in over 10 yrs, sumbiches are hard to stay up with.
Wasn’t criticizing your style. Was making light of the manner in which little pieces of random information can coalesce into good gouge.
All good, straps…I highly respect your contributions to the comment sections in various blogs. You speak with experience and not from an armchair. Always assumed you’re prior service or active based on your comments…and refreshing to read.
Comprehension, thanks for sharing. Just when I think, “this couldn’t possibly get any better”…
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4JXKUv5MQ
Please just pick one camo “to rule them all”, I’am tired of having to carry a color coded ID flip chart with me down range so I know who’s the good guys, and who I need to shoot at.
Amen, though common sense seldom prevails. I’m AF Security Forces, but I take more pride in simply being an Airman.
But moreso than that, I take even more pride in the fact that I serve my country, regardless of the branch I’m in.
MC is a nice choice, but I’m just holding out for the day that DoD finally nuts up and chooses something, ANYTHING, that says “see this camo? it means I’m with the US-of-f*cking-A”. I’m sooo done with the services’ d*ck-measuring contests, especially in the camo arena.
Because the Air Force always loses that contest?
Predictable, but good one. Pass the aloe.
Guess we have the highest ASVAB standards for no good reason whatsoever.
…says the guy in one of the lowest ASVAB career fields in the AF?
Ouch, burned myself there.
Actually, the Coast Guard does.
Watch the movie Pentagon Wars. It will all become clear.
Did you notice the use of the ‘camo wars’ tag? Well played SSD!
Any clue when the Secretary of the Army will make the announcement?
Going back to OD! Come on!
OG 107 !
Hoping it won’t be an April fools prank this time? XD
I wish, but by now even that might upset some in the industry. Consider how many companies have abandoned OD in favor of ranger/smoke/babypoop/foliage green.
Funniest thing? The lighter shades of green gear became popular because they matched:…UCP. *blech*
The Army did a lot of damage to itself during this process. Soldiers and it’s supporting community have lost faith in it’s leadership’s ability to produce results and care for them. This doubt will be felt even after the uniform decision is finally made known.
Just go back to the old OD jungle fatigues. Great uniform and OD served us well for a long time.
Aren’t they only permitted to choose among patterns already available as transitional? If that’s the case, multicam is it.
The U.S. Army has been quite emphatic that they are operating within the rules set forth in the 2014 NDAA
2014 NDAA § 351(b): “Except as provided in subsection (c), each military service shall be prohibited from adopting a new combat camouflage uniform, unless … the combat camouflage utility uniform will be a joint uniform adopted by all military services; or … the military services adopt a uniform currently in use by another military service.”
2014 NDAA § 351(e): “The Secretary of Defense may waive the prohibition in subsection (b) if the Secretary certifies to Congress that there are exceptional operational circumstances that require the development or fielding of a new combat camouflage uniform.”
Lots of room to maneuver there, legally speaking.
So long as you adopt something that already exists and since the Army wants a transitional uniform then it gets quite a bit tighter. Want to a adopt MARPAT or AOR? Go for it. But then you double down and issue more than one pattern to everyone. That’s a lot of everyone.
If you’re hoping for a Deus Ex Machina outcome with the SEC DEF riding in on a white horse and waving his magic wand over the Army’s camo shit sandwich, you need to drop the crack pipe. In this budget environment? The entire Joint Chiefs have just sat in from of Congress telling them to cut, cut, cut personnel and the programs that support them. There’s no way the SEC DEF is going to give the Army a waiver for yet another camo pattern.
Agreed. That’s why I said “legally speaking,” not “politically speaking.”
So you are saying that either all four services are adopting the Army’s new pattern or the SEC DEF is approving their choice ???
I’m only saying that IF the Army wanted to push the “fabled Digital Transitional Pattern,” for example, that’s how it would have to happen, legally speaking.
Would it be an easy process? Of course not. Would it even succeed? Who knows.
The point is that this is Big Army we’re talking about, and as a rule, they do what makes the least sense.
In other words, the Army can argue that its plan falls within the NDAA requirements, but whether that plan is politically feasible is another story.
What’s the plan that has to be argued?
The hypothetical scenario I’m thinking of is where Army decides to use MC colors on MARPAT screens (i.e. “the fabled Digital Transitional Pattern”) as the primary uniform, and MARPAT desert/woodland for deployments, then argues that either:
1) DTP isn’t a new *pattern*, just a new color scheme on an existing pattern (not a strong argument, but it might pass the sniff test if it’s politically expedient); or
2) DTP is a new pattern, but it’s so hotshit that all four branches should adopt it. Meanwhile, since MARPAT would be the bookends, the Marines could keep wearing their desert/woodland uniforms in garrison to “distinguish themselves” or whatever (apparently the 8-point cover isn’t enough).
The only reason I’m even speculating about DTP is the reports that Army is testing it. You’d think they wouldn’t test it unless they were confident they could pull it off without violating the NDAA.
Not being a service member, but just really intrigued by the drama this is causing, would someone do society a favor and bang out of chart of which branch wears what, when and where? Kind of like the the infamous “this is a real milspec M4A” chart.
As a cop, uniform changes are incredibly rare, and always political, while car marking are solely driven by whatever is stylish at the moment. My agency’s uniform and car markings are regulated by state law, and literally requires legislation to change a patch design.
I can barely pack for vacation, I can’t imagine what it must be like having to kit up in your branches. And it’s making it very hard for the mouthbreathers in SWAT to know what they have to wear to be Cool Guys.
To echo Bill (and maybe simplify this for other readers), can anyone list exactly which camo paterns are NDAA friendly??
Anything that existed as an issue pattern before 1 Oct 2013. You go outside of those parameters and you begin to quibble.
How do the “bookend” patterns fit into this paradigm?
not well
Hmmm… If Scorpion was tested by a Stryker brigade in Iraq, does that count as an issued pattern? The reasoning could be that an entire brigade was “issued” the pattern for testing. …???
I do not recall it being tested in Iraq. CCUs, the precursor to the ACU were used as the platform for the 2002-03 testing. It is a misnomer to call that testing ‘universal’ testing because it wasn’t. UCP was created as an inverted extrapolation of the data collected during that testing. Much like the attempt to create a new pixelated transitional pattern over the last few months.
Ok, I didn’t remember it correctly.
Quick google search brought me to an article by Eric H Larson.
It says the 3-color version was tested in Iraq.
Yes
AOR – Transitional test pattern resurrected rebranded and Army-ed
Never existed outside of testing.
But government owned before the Congressional “Lock” was placed on patterns
NSW uses AOR.
If Army leaders had any shred of concern on the matter of performance they would select Multicam for a multitude of reasons (to include the tropical uniform requirement). Based on historical data however, I am predicting a gross miscalculation and further mishandlings with regard to fielding, design, durability and justification. At this point, I am simply disgusted at the level of incompetence that has been demonstrated repeatedly by PEO. The only reason we ever adjusted fire to OCP (Multicam) was a response to Senator Murtha’s pursuits in Congress after hearing from some NCOs of 75th calling out the poor performance of UCP. Something that the Soldiers in the ranks had been citing for years! I sadly submit a vote of no confidence on the matter, and hope to be wrong.
I’m rooting for the multicam tropic variant for jungle warfare. 😛
I’m with you Eddie. I have been looking at a European company who’s made up combat uniforms, and etc, and it seems to work damn great in green terrain. The Army should go back to Green, and use the Transtitional MC as a Desert uniform. WOuld work better everywhere. One point I’m seeing over here, is that the Standard MC Colours are too light for Europe etc..
An ACU redesign would be great as well. Fix the cut, ditch the Velcro, and get better quality materials.
Also, allow me to wear a one piece flight suit again.
In a sane world, the Army would
– Update the “ACU” with the cut of the AOR NWU in “OCP”
– Issue an OCP version of the USMC Combat Desert Jacket
Oh, and pay Crye for MC-Arid and MC-Tropic.
Are you in my head?
Agreed!!
Why aren’t you at PEO Soldier? You nailed it.
No and No
I think it’d be cool if they made the uniforms for people who were in the Army, and not for the dumb fat f*cks who “test” our uniforms. We need an athletic cut top, not a husky fit.
Matt, I completely agree. We did at one time have uniforms which fit the fit (i.e. tapered and form fitting). With the McDonald’s generation of leaders at the helm we adjusted fire to fit the torso-endowed and healthy hipped quasi-soldiers. Everyone gets a trophy, so the fatties got the fit and NATICK got the pattern while PEO and acquisitions could save face and not admit the civilian sector had out performed them, behold!…UCP ACUs. The only ones scratching their heads were the grunts wearing the garbage outside the wire and in training. Keep in mind we’ve stayed the course of STUPIDITY now for nearly 10 years. That’s not just stupidity, that’s stubborn pride and arrogance.
One thing I liked about USMC BDU’s was the taper. It looks like you guys wear glorified garbage bags. I’d hate the cut too.
Will this ever end. We are still left waiting for the announcement. We need to get this moving. I retire in two years and I can’t bear the thought of leaving in UCP.
ANy clues if it will be multicam or the OTHER multicam that won the testing?
Got dammit we need a flow chart
Scorpion? Why on Earth would they consider Scorpion, the 3rd runner up (out of 4) in camo trials back in 2003. Oh yes, Scorpion was renamed Multicam, and has been the tacticoolest thing around for years already. But wouldn’t the winner, ‘All over brush’, be better…? That is, if performance had anything to do with this?
(Yes yes, of course, what essentially is Multicam made it to the final four in the recent extensive Phase IV selection process. The results of which are yet to be published, although Multicam is rumoured to be the so far unannounced winner. How this could be consistent with the 2003 camo trials beats me.)
Because the 2003 and 2011 camo trials were two altogether different beasts. It’s now all about the transitions. That have never been concentrated on before. You used to just put a pattern in the environment it was designed for as if a Soldier would never wear it where it wasn’t meant to be used.
I guess the Army also noticed the shortcoming of the 2003 trials, ie failing to consider camo outside the environmental envelope it was designed for. Hence the *Universal* camouflage pattern that, uhm, works everywhere and all the time. 😛
(Imho, the 2003 trials were pretty modest in scope, judging by the published report and the patterns tested. Still, the weakness of Scorpion back then is worthwile pointing out. No wonder it was rebranded as Multicam, which is just a slight modification. There seems to have been further modifications of the pattern under the Multicam label.)
https://ssdaily.tempurl.host/2014/03/07/us-army-considers-3-coas-camo-replacement/
Read option 2. I wrote about this a couple of months ago.
Scorpion is not MC, there are differences.
Am I the only one under the impression that US4CES was reconsidered and quite possibly has licensed it’s family of patterns to the Army. Has always been the clear winner to me since Phase IV was over. I guess we’ll know on or around the Army’s birthday as then we will see either Odierno or Chandler giving the announcement wearing the new uniform
Yes, you are
Bwahaha.
And thanks for the illumination.
This comments thread is SSD HOF material.
To hell with it all. We are CONUS so I think a more appropriate camo would be a pair of Carharts/Levis and a freakin collared shirt (since we should look professional).
Every time you post an update we should have to click to view and you can play the theme ffrom Benny Hill. Seems a fitting tune for the ass clownery of the brass.
SSD, back in July, you posted this:
“In addition to the new pattern we also expect an announcement for a new boot color although we understand that the actual color has not yet been determined. Don’t be surprised if we see a new accessory color as well for T-shirts, socks, gloves, etc.”
Any predictions if that’s still the case? If it’s really a soft launch, as in just phase in MultiCam (assuming that’s what’s been selected) as ACU wears out… they would probably lean towards no, keeping same color shirt and boots, I would think. That would make the most sense. I can already hear the anguished moans from the sergeants major as they see a formation that has half army digital camo and half multicam. It would be an order of magnitude worse if you threw different colored boots and tees in the mix.
But then, with respect to this process, “common sense isn’t as common as it used to be.”
Mick.
Replace “multicam” with “woodland” and you just described the T32 National Guard.
So SSD,
Has there been any reconsideration of the withdrawn army family that you reported on back in June? Seems to me it would have been an easy backup solution that certainly would have passed the NDAA.
I think the withdrawn patterns could be argued either way, but, tall of the patterns weren’t tested against the Phase IV patterns, and they don’t share common geometries, which up to now, has been the overall goal.
Are we there yet?
Though I deeply mourn the loss of US4CES; I’m fairly confident that Big Army has chosen MultiCam, which ain’t too bad. Either way, it’s a hell of a lot better than these awful ACUs I wear to work.
Comprehension: the scorpion camo trial uniforms exist, but are few and far between; and fetch high prices when found.
Got any directions? Because I swear it is made of unobtainium. Thanks for the heads up.
Ebay it, Look for the “Close Combat Uniform”. Up until recently there were several scorpion pattern uniforms on there that sat for about 5 years that nobody touched. Considering how many were made in Scorpion, the price wasn’t bad ($400 a set IIRC). Unobtainium would be finding a pair Desert Tracks (one of my personal favs) or any of the Brush patterns. Wish I wouldn’t have sold the pairs of the 3 color CCUs that I found in a surplus place outside Lewis in mid-06… Store owner told me at check out ” you know those are more than the regular ones right, they’re experimental… $40 for the set.”
Some years ago I got a CCU shirt in Scorpion pattern from one of the Thai sellers on ebay. It didn’t really cost that much.
Weren’t they tested by the Stryker brigade in Iraq and are something different than the uniforms from the universal camo test?
From what I remember, they were all part of the same test, the Army started with the cut before the pattern around the same time the Marines started developing the MCCUU. I don’t remember what Stryker brigades got them, been so long, but the brigade from 2nd ID got the 1st production run of CCUs, while shortly there after the brigade from 25th ID got the 2nd batch that were a slightly different cut, closer to the ACUs. Honestly I love the cut and quality of the CCUs, far superior to the ACUs in my opinion. As for the Camo patterns, I don’t think any of the test patterns ever made it to theater, just several selected test sites here in the states. Rarity wise, I’d say the scorpion pattern is just above 3 color, followed by M81 woodland (black or green velcro types) followed up by the the track patterns and then brush. all the latter being all fairly close since less than 100 were made in each case. From what I was told the testers were offered to keep the uniforms after giving their opinions on them and an inspection by Natick. They were told to throw a piece of paper in the left shoulder pocket with their address and a $20 to pay for shipping back to them. As you can imagine, not many guys did. Lord knows what eventually happened to most of them… captain crunch? Warehouse at the end of Raiders of the lost Arc?
I’ll add that I have a good feeling of where a lot of the cool XM stuff ends up. About 10 years or so ago, one of the trash guys thats route included Natick found a dumpster full of XM uniforms and gear that they apparently decided to DX to the landfill. Stuff dating back to test from the late 70s. Oh what I would give to have found that gold mine.
Damn…give it up SSD.
Im just ready for the Army to announce the new camo. STOP WASTING MONEY ON SHIT THAT IS PROVEN INEFFECTIVE.
I skimmed through, so maybe somebody asked, but you (SSD) said that you were confident that you know which one they’re picking and that you’re happy about their decision…just because I’m curious…which camouflage pattern do you think they will be picking?
MultiCam is so overated. Expensive, and “trendy” Why doesn’t the US Army just swallow it’s pride and take on Navy or Marines camo and be done with it. WHAT A WASTE OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND A POINTLESS EXERCISE.
It could, but then they’d end up spending even more money issuing multiple pattern so every Soldier. Read the archives. This has been addressed ad nauseum.
If you think Multicam is garbage, you’re right. But, God forbid the Army ever choosing that crap called “scorpion”. I recall reading about how poorly scorpion performed against multicam on Hyperstealth.com.
http://www.hyperstealth.com/scorpion/
Multicam performs well in a variety of terrains. If the army wants the “transitional effect”, that is the pattern they need to use. AOR and MARPAT both perform better than multicam when each variant is used in its specific environment. (No duh, we all know this). But obviously the army wants a single pattern to work in multiple environments and use that as their uniform. Because multicam does with well in so many environments, you can’t really call multicam garbage.
So, got confirmation yesterday fro a senior CSM that the new uniform pattern is officially Scorpion pattern, however no mention of the exact variant (woodland, transition, or desert). Also got good news on new PT uniform as it will be the black and gold selection.
I don’t see why everyone sees this as a big deal. They look functionally the same especially after a few washings and some training. On the day to day trop level (Tm SQD LDR CO etc) leaders should use some judgement and push towards the new pattern as the standard but allow Soldiers to use their well worn kit until its time for a DX and they can get the scorpion kit. We all know that its going to be a phased integration. Perhaps my fellow NCOs on this board can push this thought around their units. As the article stated Crye made some small changes IOT to patent it after developing it with the Army. Truthfully its aggravating that we (the Army) have had this pattern the ENITRE TIME!! and we have even had to fuck around with the entire double (2004, 2014) selection process.