According to an award announcement posted today on FedBizOpps The Federal Bureau of Investigation has selected the Glock pistol as their new sidearm. In contrast to the US Army’s plodding attempt to find a new service pistol, the FBI’s program for a 9mm replacement took just nine months from issuing the solicitation to industry to award. The contract ceiling is $85 million.
Look for additional details soon.
Tags: FBI
Very interesting. I do not believe Glock has a commercially available model that met the specifications (finger grooves). Standing by for more info.
The various forums are suggesting what is essentially a Gen 4 glock without the finger grooves.
Which based on reading the contract, is what is needed.
Also a ambi/reversable mag release and slide catch are probably needed.
Ambidextrous slide stop was not a FBI requirement.
I’m hearing it being referred to as a G17M. There has also been a lot of talk of the Gen 5.
VERY VERY INTERESTING! DOES SSD HAVE A MAJOR INDUSTRY SCOPE?
Rumors are milling that this will be a G17/G19 “M” model. For Modular.
So, expect to see G17M or G19M. I don’t think they will jump into the “Gen 5” realm quite yet.
Doing so without anything more advanced would be a bit foolish. If anything, byt modding the grips, and maybe the safeties (though, that was not in the FBI reqs), we will see them get coined a Gen 4.5 or sumn.
Either way. Great to see, glock on.
I’ve heard the M means modified.
I wish they would sell civilian models without the finger grooves. It would save me some time with the dremel.
Why don’t you like the finger grooves? I’m not saying I like them, I just never notice them.
The FBI RFP specifically excluded finger grooves.
On the G19 they don’t fit my hand and dig into my fingers. I don’t mind them on the G17. It’s all subjective, some people will prefer them others won’t.
I think I’m in the very small minority whose fingers actually fit perfectly in the finger grooves, LOL!! I had the grooves removed on just one of my Glocks at Boresight Solutions, and I do NOT like it at all. So yeah, I’m an odd duck it would seem.
I like the finger grooves as well. I still stipple my frames, just don’t cut off the finger grooves.
What if *gasp* the Gen5 has modular front straps? A revolution in firearms technology!
That was my thought, why not a modular front and back strap. Granted, front strap might be a little harder from the material needed for a rail and the strap itself without getting into the magazine space, and the width front to back. I am no engineer and I don’t have a Glock close by to have a look see to see if its even feasible.
Yeah, I’m not sure if it would work. I’d rather the front strap stay the same honestly. If you don’t like finger grooves, cut ’em off. Seems to be working out so far.
Have a fixed back strap with a beavertail and a modular user replaceable front strap.
I’m in that minority of people whose hands fit the finger grooves
A G17 has plenty of space for the middle finger, but the G19 requires a very simple (with sandpaper) removal of a bit of material from the bottom of the trigger guard. I don’t know why they don’t fix this themselves.
If you never noticed them you’re in that 50.1% of the population they fit properly…
Is a Gen4 Glock legal to own in Calif ?
It’s perfectly fine to own, but you won’t find it being sold from store. You’d need to do a Private Party Transfer through a FFL
Why not a Gen3 G19? It is the perfect pistol for their mission. Or would that be too easy?
The Gen 3 does not meet their mission because it doesn’t meet the required specifications outlined.
Welcome to the 1980s, FBI. Took you long enough to do the right thing.
Are you aware that the FBI already issues Glocks?
so what model and caliber? anything special?
9mm, almost certainly variants of the G17 and G19 based on the size specifications.
It’s 9mm but the Bureau hasn’t disclosed the model.
thanks!
Stupid waste of money to fix a nonexistent problem.
Exactly what I was thinking
This may well save money. 9mm is cheaper, easier to shoot, easier to qualify with, and does not have the same ‘wear and tear’ as a .40 on the handgun. Sticking with Glock likely means many spare parts and gear currently in the inventory will remain useful. Looks like a win to me.
Anecdotal info – Over the last 3-4 years, I have seen nearly all plainclothes agents carrying Glocks. Even the former HRT guys carry Glocks. On the local FBI SWAT, maybe two guys still have 1911s whereas two dozen have gone Glock.
Repeating the obvious, but the FBI is an arm of DOJ. The DOJ is militant about hiring just about anyone other than the average white male with past military experience. They need guys and girls who blend in certain communities or can chase Eastern European hackers. Many of those folks are not gun people and they carry guns only because it is their job. And .40 is going away for equally obvious reasons.
The Glocks seem to work for the FBI.
When you have to pay to maintain and feed a fleet of .40 guns, 9mm begins to look very appealing.
Modern bullet design has nullified any handgun caliber debates, so why not?
The maintenance will be the same with the 9mm. And the 9mm is no easier to shoot than the 40. The same people that suck with the 40 will suck equally with the 9mm, that is reality.
Again a stupid waste of money to fix a nonexistent problem. As tax payers you should be appalled, but I’ve lost faith in the critical reasoning ability of Americans.
The .40 has a significant greater recoil impulse, which translates to a slower follow up shot whether you are a novice or IPSC Grandmaster. There is also a significant price difference in the rounds which makes practice more affordable.
This unfortunately is completely irrelevant however as there seems to be zero priority on anything beyond qualification shoots once your out of the academy.
Maintenance will not be the same. Several large LE studies have shown that wear and tear is increased with .40, and parts replacement timelines are shortened. I’ve never seen a G17 break a RSA or locking block; but I’ve seen both problems with issued G22s for a large agency. It isnt that common but it happens.
I have seen those issues with G17s. And as far as follow up shots being quicker that is a red herring. Follow up/split times isn’t the reason people shoot like shit. The people that suck with the 40 will suck equally with the 9mm. As far as price of ammo goes with large agency purchases the cost savings will be there but it won’t offset the waste that is occuring here.
Take 1,000 equally inexperienced individuals, give 1/2 a Glock 22 the other 1/2 a Glock 17. Give them the exact same 3 weeks of training and qualifications. The ones with the 17 will out perform those issued the 22. Scores will be higher, and at a lower cost too. Every. Time.
Same goes for the M&P .40 and the M&P 9.
That is unequivocally false.
That is unequivocally true.
Recoil affects everybody, despite stature and training.
They have nothing to lose by going to 9mm and everything to gain. 40 shouldn’t of even existed to begin with.
The maintenance will be the same!?
what is your experience with 40 handguns? Particularly, guns with high round counts?
Sorry Bill, but your version of events is the exact opposite of reality,a dn indictive of a lack of experience. I have trained hundreds of LE with .40 glocks and once handed a 9mm Glock the accuracy and speed increase. Those that “suck with the .40” generally do well with the 9mm.
Also, your lack of knowledge and experience again show through in your statement that “the maintenance will be the same with the 9mm”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The .40 Glock wears and breaks small parts at an alarming rate, and requires frequent and regular PMI. The 9mm has far fewer parts breakages, and the frame lasts considerably longer due to less recoil fatigue.
Rather than a waste of money, the whole point of this switch is to save money. You can argue the ballistics of 9mm vs .40, but you can’t argue the cost savings and shooting ability advantages.
From all I’ve read, they WERE looking at the SIG P320 as well, and we KNOW Sig has been pricing them insanely well (almost giving them away). So either Glock underbid them by a lot, which seems unlikely, or their testing showed something that the SIG people won’t like.
For the record, I LOVE my 320C (it fits my hand best, and I shoot it with $100 in mods just as good as the glock with a LOT MORE in mods), though I’m not selling my G19 any time soon).
What mods do you have for your 320?
I think it’s entirely possible that Glock Unfer bid. There is no more glamorous contract to hold for a service pistol than the FBI.
Navy seals MIGHT be a bit more glamorous… But now they have both
Unlike the Army, the FBI actually depends on their pistols instead of issuing them to avoid having to carry a rifle.
I guarantee you that outside of qualifying 95% of FBI agents have never had to actually shoot their issued weapons in a defensive or offensive manner
As is the case with all LE agencies. Do you have a valid point to make?
I will be courious to see what agancies/deparments follow in their footsteps. I think they had good reasons to do what they did and I am not surprised at all they stuck with glock, however they are seen as the gold standard and i wonder how many will adopt the same gun “because the FBI uses it”
It is a bit more complex than that, the FBI has the resources to conduct testing that 99% of LE agencies can’t, to include most of the alphabet ones. So if the FBI moves on something, policy and budget for the little guys just got easier.
Damn it! And I was all prepared to be full of righteous indignation when they announced the Sig P320 to fulfill that narrowly written RFP! Way to take the wind out of my sails with a sensible choice FBI. I’ll have to go find somewhere else to troll today. This is going to bug (and please) me all day…
I only wonder what happens to the bazillion rounds of .40 cal purchased by the Feds. just a few years ago that was so newsworthy, and got the conspiracy world buzzing…?
Ship it over to US Coast Guard, DEA, DHS, etc. Coast Guard uses SIG’s in .40 and the DEA seams to have an obsession with .40. No doubt that ammo will get used by other agencies within the DOJ and DHS. If not they could just sell it off to various state police / patrol agencies as part of some special program.
The “baziilion rounds of .40” were purchased by Homeland Security for use by those agencies, who issue .40 pistols. It was not purchased by the FBI. The FBI stocks of .40 will probably get used up within 2 years.
Maybe the FBI stuck with Glock because they spent all their acquisition dollars in an unplanned replacement of all their EoTechs with Aimpoints.? :^)
L3 Communications, which owns the Eo-Tech brand, reimbursed individuals and agencies for the cost of the sights as part of a consent decree against them. It has nothing to do with the selection of a new pistol.
has it not occurred to anyone that the 320 was not chosen because it FAILED the FBI’s tests???????
Curious the finger groves things and possibly a “gen 5″…Didn’t the FBI used to use Gen 2 and 3 model 23’s?….one would thing they would retrofit the slides to save cost going with a G19. I guess the ambi mag catch would be the kicker… I wonder if they will move to the civilian market as well, I don’t much prefer the Gen 4 features (minus the double spring).
I’m a lefty in Calif with a several Glock Gen 3s. Lack of a non-ambi mag release, or slide stop has NEVER been an issue with me. Learning weapon manipulation efficiency through training is the key. I personally attend one professional tactical /fighting pistol course every month (wife annoyed by that). and dry practice 10 minutes each day, EVERY day.
On a different topic, wonder where all of those G22s and G23s will go once they are phased out of FBI inventories?
Given to another federal agency, or destroyed.
The M stands for match. As in match grade button rifled barrel.
My info comes directly from an FBI employee. No finger groove, ambi slide release, flared magwell and a button rifled match grade barrel. If I could post photos here I’d supply screen shots from the text conversations.
Even if you could, I wouldn’t want your source to get in hot water over this. It isn’t worth it.
Can somebody tell me more about this Inforce weapon light the FBI cited in the RFQ ? Is it metal or polymer ?
Polymer
I wouldn’t include his name trust me. He catches child predators for a living.
Does the Bureau have an established weaponlight policy? The Inforce being primary over the Streamlight was an interesting tidbit. As an end user, finding light bearing holsters has been much easier with the TLRs than the Inforce.
I don;t think it is a waste of money to fix the problem because in the long run they may be saving money.
Reason for the switch. The most comprehensive handgun caliber study has been done. 9mm in modern hollow points is as effective as .40 and .357 sig
9mm is significantly cheaper on top of that you can carry more rounds In each magazine
Recoil management (after extensive testing of their agents) was easier with the 9mm.
9mm equally effective, cheaper, more capacity, easier to shoot. Why new Glock model vs HK VP9 and vs P320 who knows.