I’ve been sitting on this photo for awhile, but now that it has made it out into the wild, I figure it’s ok to share.
I’m told it was taken at Quantico Marine Corps Base at Weapons Training Bn, and I’ve had a copy of the photo for several months.
The three weapons were under evaluation, pursuant to the impending M27 fielding. You’ll also note a few BE Meyers’ MAWLs and Geissele accessories such as the Upper Receiver Group – Improved and High Speed Selector Switch as well as B5 Systems stocks. That’s not to mention the optics. The URG-I was looked at as an alternative to fielding additional M27s, but quickly dropped as the Marine Corps has laid a solid path forward.
However, let me be very clear about this. A lot of things have been looked at, but the M27 fielding is under such close scrutiny that no changes will be made to the additional weapons, expected to be fielded later this year. Any changes will come down the road.
Tags: B5 Systems, Geissele Automatics, H&K
Should have gone with the URG-I.
Selecting the M27 as the standard rifle was a mistake.
Any particular reason why or?
The USMC adopted M855A1, which severely degrades every aspect of the M27 to the point that it breaks every part at the same rate of the M4.
The URG-I on the other hand, far surpasses the M4 and M27 on parts life across the board.
How so? The URG-I isn’t anything that special.
You got actual hard data on that?
I’m in the process of getting it released.
Surefire muzzle device, DD barrel, geissele ch/hand guard/gas block, standard bcg and upper. Not a bad parts list but is there anything really special about them? Whole greater than the sum of the parts? Are there some different measurements/specs?
You also left out moving to a mid length gas system, which greatly reduces chamber pressure during extraction, greatly reducing wear on the bolt lugs and easier extraction leading to better reliability.
A mid length gas system greatly increases durability and reliability.
Didn’t need the description. Unless you’ve got more details It’s still just a DD barrel. I’ve got a DD 14.5 mid length on my AR in the safe. It shoots great. Exotic it is not.
Never said anything was exotic, just that the parts as a whole outpeform the M27 and the M4A1 while being cheaper than the M27. Who wouldn’t want a cheaper, better performing gun. The URG-I is a complete upper, so the parts as a whole are what make it superior.
There is a lot of data out there regarding bolt lug loading, chamber pressure, extraction force, bolt thrust, etc between the carbine and mid length gas systems that proves a mid length system removes the majority of the stresses faced by the AR bolt in the carbine system.
Like I’ve said, I’m working on getting the data for the public, but that takes time.
Again,
If this is just a combination of parts that are, for the most part, available to the public, Wake 27 still has a point.
Never said it was special, just that its sum of parts make it the superior rifle.
I mean go back and look at my posts, no where do I say it is special or exotic. Just that the URG-I the sum of its parts surpasses the M27 and M4A1.
The URG-I is not a complete upper, it is a kit for USASOC Armorers to upgrade existing M4’s with. The uppers in Brownells are not exact copies of the issue kits. The items in the above list are pretty close to what is being used, except that the issue kit has a DD gas block.
DD 14.5” barrel w/midlength gas
DD MK12/18 Gas Block
Geissele MK16 Rail
Geissele Airborne Charging Handle
Surefire SF4P
The barrel comes pre-assembled with the Geissele barrel nut installed, so that all the armorers have to do is pull the existing barrels, install the new barrel assembly, muzzle device, hand guard, and charging handle.
Yes, the same as they have been doing with the Block II uppers.
The URG-I when built is a complete upper, which is what I meant when I said its parts as a whole make it a better weapon.
So for govt to upgrade to URG-I upper means first having to buy an M4?
It will fit on an M16 as well
Like I said I’m working on getting the information released.
Well until you get it released, please be quiet.
This is what the weapon of someone going into combat, knowing full well they may be asked to make the ultimate sacrifice for their nation, should look like. A nation that understood this would ensure that every fighting man and woman would not only have a weapon like this but the thousands of training hours necessary to use it effectively.
Did the Marines buy the TDP for the M27, or is that still an HK proprietary thing?
I can’t remember if I’ve ever seen that laid out, anywhere.
If they bought the TDP then they would have been able to put it out for competitive bid instead of doing the buy through H&K. They may have some rights as I’ve seen mention of the USMC requesting some ECP’s.
If they didn’t buy the TDP, then they should have. I don’t like the idea that we’d have to be beholden to a foreign company for weapons production, and/or the idea that the German government might decide that HK had to take their toys and come home. Not to mention, no TDP means we’re locked in to HK for production, with all that implies for competitive bidding.
Such things are probably fine for one-off small procurements; you start talking about something that’s possibly going to become the next general-issue individual weapon for the Marines, then that’s not acceptable.
It’s odd, but I can’t find anywhere that this issue is laid out or clarified. Anyone know what the actual situation is?
They did not buy the TDP. HK Germany is still supplying every part and new rifle for the M27, which means if they get backlogged due to the French contract and soon to be German MOD contract the USMC may be in for a hurting on spare part delays.
Brilliant.
Why are we so bad at this? It’s not like we haven’t run into this issue, before, either. Anyone remember Sweden embargoing the Karl Gustav submachinegun, during Vietnam? That was what led to Smith & Wesson building the M76…
And more recently with the XM25…
Oh, and HK is great about getting those spare parts out….. and they can always get them from GA… LOL
Because reverse engineering isn’t a thing.
Take one apart, measure all the pieces, find a manufacturer state-side willing to make them, done deal.
If its as easy as you say, knock yourself out doing that.
I’ll help pull the machine tools out of your ass. They seem to be crammed in there pretty deep.
I love internet tough guys that dont know anything about the subject and then get butt sore when you call them on it.
Go back to doing your tuck dance in the mirror….
Yeah that’s not how that works. There’s laws against such things.
Look up the M4 addendum and see what happens when such things occur.
“Laws” that haven’t stopped the Chinese from doing so. If we end up in such a situation, what’s Germany going to do? Throw schnitzel at us?
Lol.
What is the rail on the left? Almost looks like a Qsert rail from Q. Kinda shorter m lock but with the screw holes. Liveqordie.com for a look at the Qsert
Geissele Super Modular Rail HK
It still uses their old attachment system
To double-tap, Weapons Training Battalion evaluates many commercial products which never make it onto service rifles. This doesn’t mean any change to the M27 is forthcoming.
That looks to be a 14.5″ 415 rather than the 16″ barreled M27. Pretty sure that’s a 14″ SMR and also compare it to the URG uppers…
*416
Nothing here was adopted. It was just tested. The USMC will continue on with the base M27.
He never said it was.
Why didn’t you show us this picture earlier?
If the M855A1 is such an awful item (and I agree, it is) then the “solution” isn’t to rebuild, overhaul, and upgrade every part of a brand-new rifle. The solution is to adopt something else, and cashier all those involved in developing and adopting the M855A1.
despite every one’s “favorite” rifle, the Corps has all but chosen the M27. there has to be a reason.
As for supply chain, and spare parts. I’m sure the Corps thought of that. HK supplies the main rifle to the Norway, France, soon to be Germany, & Spain I think; all in the form of a 416 variant. All of which have essentially all parts in common. I don’t think spare parts will be the issue. Realistically, the biggest issue for getting spare parts, etc.., will likely be our own Customs and importation regulations.
and the M855A1, for what it is worth, I too am not a fan. but I’m also not buying ammunition for war fighting?