Not long after our story on the Fireclean suit against bloggers Andrew Tuohy and Everett Baker, Vuurwaapen blog launched a fundraising page for their legal defense on the GoFundMe platform. The odd thing about this is that I’ve read the complaint and Fireclean isn’t suing for assault.
Those interested in donating should visit www.gofundme.com/spwt9qss.
Tags: gofundme
Assault??? Why would you even put that in there?
The comments on the gofundme page are pretty brutal, not a lot of sympathy for him but he is getting donations.
This Way To See The Great Egress!
How pathetic. He made the claims and now needs money from others to defend what he said about others.
Is that a comment on the state of justice, or on his character? I fail to see how lack of money makes him incorrect. At the same time, I can see FireClean might have a case after doing some reading. Should justice be decided based on who has more money?
It’s called being prepared for the repercussions of your actions/words.
Yes, but that just gets us into a situation where even if he is right, he shouldn’t say it because he might get sued? Surely you can see the problem with this. At the very least it doesn’t make him “pathetic.”
I’m not saying he is correct, but I don’t see anything wrong with trying to raise money for legal defense.
It’s called your mouth writing checks your ass can’t cash. It’s good to see a company defending itself against one of the droves of Internet bloggers,keyboard commandos,airsofters, and the hoard of other people who want to make claims about a product that are false. If your going to be writing about things good or bad you had better do it tactfully as getting sued is a bitch. If you write trash about a product prepare yourself and your bank account. Don’t beg others to pay for your verbal diarrhea. Just my .02
Pretty much what I was getting at above.
He’s not putting a gun to anyone’s head and demanding money. Actually Fireclean are demanding tax dollars to settle this civil suit, right? Considering the time that could be spent by a jury trial and pay that will go to the jurors, and of course the judge’s time for litigation.
Don’t beg others to pay for your failing business. Just my .02.
I’m pretty sure you just described every lawsuit ever,M regardless of which side you take.
And if someone hadn’t slandered their product they wouldn’t have to have a jury trial. Maybe they should add in a 100k in their lawsuit damages and donate it back to the county once they trounce him. Just my .02
Chuck, that there is some pretty good mental gymnastics.
I like the way SSD shows (links to) both side of the story. Now it is up to the reader to make up his / her opinion.
I am really surprised just how strong those opinions have been so far.
The GoFundMe page has been updated with the following: “In the initial post, I described the lawsuit incorrectly. It was described on Justia as “assault, libel, and slander” and I took those to be the points of the suit. However, that is simply the category under which the suit was described on Justia. At the time I wrote the original post, I had yet to be served with the lawsuit. My apologies.”
These guys are idiots, that’s what all this proves.
I have enough problems spelling spectrometer. Thank God for spell check. All I know is in my sample of one I found it inferior to other products. Gee, am I gonna get sued nowadays p for voicing my personal opinion without a certified Albert Einstein Laboratory seal of approval?
Frankly, this may seem like a nifty legal strategy but I’m betting it’s not going to be good for business. Nobody really ever wins in these lawsuits.
Lawyers win.
Oh and you’re fine voicing your opinion as long as you can afford better lawyers than the other guy. Otherwise you must be wrong.
you’re fine saying you don’t like it. you didn’t go the extra step of making claims and using “evidence” to back up those claims, then press the point very hard in such a way that impacted business. this guy didn’t make a few idle statements or observations on his blog, he was very loud and said that Fireclean was scamming their customers. there’s a huge step between making a statement of preference and intentionally trying to turn business away from a company.
I don’t have time to read the complete filing but i am going to guess given the underlying legal issues this won’t be litigated as quickly as Fireclean might like. Libel and slander have a pretty high standard of proof. Further proving that alleged criminal behavior was the sole reason for an actual material loss is not an easy matter either.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. But it smells like Fireclean is going to be angling for a settlement by trying to squeeze these guys financially. That’s a pretty big gamble in my estimation. Especially if the defendant gets his funding or gets support from one of the many pro bono First Amendment types.
To me, it just seems like making an adversary you’re ally would have been a better option. But what do I know.
They have made many attempts to talk to this guy. This guy is a troll that set out to injure this company’s product and reputation and deserves what’s coming to him.
Being rude or disparaging is not the same thing as having refined or discerning tastes. This industry has a really hard time with that concept. There are blogs that do it right, like this blog, by presenting clean facts and letting the reader decide. Presenting opinion is cool too when you disclaim it as such.
I don’t see this case as dangerous to first amendment speech in any way, unless you’re a 1A purist that things you should be able to yell fire in a crowded theater.
Fireclean knows these two guys have no money. What they want is public vindication.
You don’t know much, Marcus. Read the filing.
I don’t see how suing him into bankruptcy will repair Fireclean’s public image or restore their sales. They will likely spend more on the lawsuit than they will ever get out of it.
You might be right, unless the whole Vuurwapen expose has hurt sales to the point that Fireclean is about to go out of business and this is a last ditch effort to save the business.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’ve never paid for lube in my life. But it seemed clear to this layman that Fireclean is vegetable oil with maybe another foodsafe additive. I don’t see how anyone who buys Fireclean at retail is not a fool.
That Fireclean didn’t just say what their lube consists of made it clear to me that it’s something easily obtained that they are selling at a premium. I assume other people see it they way i do. THerefore, I have to think a lot of people stopped buying Fireclean after the blog posts.
I donated so go suck it haters. I see this as a small guy vs. the big corporations. I am acutally amazed at the anti-1st amendment rhetoric and the support for a corporation. I really shouldn’t be surprised but I gave credit to the pro-gun community at being a little more critical thinkers than they have illustrated. Fireclean is not altruistic and they don’t care about you. They are in business to do one thing and that is too make money. There is a sucker born everyday and it appears the folks supporting Fireclean are having a difficult time.
The same could be said of those who support Tuohy. Congrats on wasting money on a fool, a fool who makes claims that he can’t and won’t back up.
BTW, if he can afford to pay three different laboratories to perform these tests, then affording a lawyer shouldn’t be a problem for him.
Do any of you people using ad homonim attacks on Andrew understand the reason to use such logical fallacies is because you are or you fear losing? Also, why such middle grade rhetoric from people supporting Fireclean? All signs of repressed issues they need to resolve and fear.
Nothing like insulting someone simply because they have a different opinion of a person then you do.
Are you out of your mind?
LOL @ Fireclean being a “big corporation”
Feel the Bern!
Andrew is my bro, and so are the Fireclean guys, so I’ll leave the righteousness of the case alone.
Just for the record, Fireclean is a whopping two people. That big-ass evil corporation is two brothers who busted their ass to launch Fireclean.
The reality of your “take down the corporation” rant is really a “fuck small business” rant, you just didn’t know that.
Obviously not directed at you, SSD
Ha I get it. Cuz it’s called FIREclean. Haha
Hey since somebody wants to mention politics, well see how the school of “trump civil court” plays out for fireclean just like it did for trumpmeister’s reputation.
Your move.
That is truly idiotic. Fireclean are not “big guys.” The losers savaging them are the real dicks in all this. The First Amendment does not give anyone the right to libel. You are an example of precisely the kind of stupidity that egged the amateur-bloggers on.
No one is anti 1st Amendment you idiot. You can say whatever you want, that doesn’t mean there wont be any repercussions for what you say. Like now, you said something dumb and now people make fun of you for it.
Interestingly, the shirts he designed, emblazoned with “Burning Bridges Since 2009”, are almost entirely sold out on his site.
I don’t think anyone is going to truly win this, but it will certainly be interesting to follow.
I don’t use Fireclean and I stopped reading his blog a while ago.
I use Froglube, which he just recently trashed on his site (albeit less harshly than FIREClean).
And froglube gummed up my m9s so badly they had significant failure to fire issues. My coworker had similar problems. 30°F isn’t that cold and letting a weapon sit for a while shouldn’t cause the lube to gum up. Both of those seperate conditions cause froglube to fail as a lubricant in my, admittedly small, sample size. I’m turned off on the “natural” oils as a result and certainly don’t miss the internet drama that comes with them. I guess if it works for you, at least they don’t smell that bad. I can think of literally a ton of other lubricants that keep guns clean and functioning without lawsuits and internet trolling and all the rest.
This. I’ll continue to use what my organization issues me and stick to non-drama lubricants for personal tools.
I seem to be the only one that hasn’t had my guns gummed up by FrogLube. I’ve used on multiple weapons including issued ones and they always ran without an issue, and I do not follow the directions, simply slather it on like I do with CLP or Slip 2K. The weapons that I had locked in the safe at my parents house when I deployed to AFG twice never gummed up or rotted despite the large amounts of FL I applied to all the steel parts. All of them were rust free and functioned fine when I returned home.
I don’t work for FL and Im not here to defend it or discount your experience. Just want to thank you for providing your experience without the typical internet dbaggery that comes with threads regarding FL or Fireclean. I will still use FL until I run out, it hasn’t failed me and I’m not going to throw away a functional product just because some arrogant self-annointed internet “SME” (guys like Tuohy) declared it snake oil.
I like frog lube and hoppes lube. I have CLP packets for my range bag if I need them (the little single serving ones). I use frog lube but haven’t been to a range below freezing in a while (used to all the time at Rich and WW). I had an old squad leader swear by the graphite lock stuff from home depot.
I think the key issue in this whole thing is when opinion becomes fact/perceived fact and causes damages. The blogger didn’t unintentionally cause damage, it appears he repeatedly went after FireClean. This shows motivations and will more than likely hurt him. Will it settle out of court? Probably. Will he continue if his personality is as everyone says it is? Probably.
BTW- my friend’s wife loved the smell of frog lube when I installed his APEX trigger…That smell enough is a selling point for some folks, he ended up having to buy some for her.
Wish I could say the same. It was fine till it wasn’t which was a much needed reminder to not use pcs ing as an excuse to not shoot. I very may have well had a bad batch, but it’s difficult to get over slides moving forward in slow motion after release and hammers not hitting hard enough to detonate primers. Replicated on two different pistols, m9 and compact, cleaned in the same manner and also with the guy who replaced me as armorer who experienced the same issues. I remain concerned about chemical exposure, but I went back to the non toxic solution I used before froglube. I really wanted froglube to work. I recommended it quite a bit and still like their solvent, though it’s expensive. Good hunting with whatever works for you.
I read through the significant part of Fireclean’s lawsuit today and the evidence they have for claims that these two bozos libeled them is very strong. Their evidence for aggresive collusion to attack their business and discredit them is powerful. The evidence for intent to do material harm to their business is equally strong.
I think they have a VERY strong case.
No sympathies for these two from me. You screw with people’s livelihoods and libel them and then want us to fund your legal bills?
Nope. Not happening.
Hey now don’t go ruining the pity party!
But yea, it’s not the “research” that was the problem at all. In was th comments, the jokes, the references at every oppertunity that may do him in.
I like Andrew’s work – but most people don’t realize he is a professional troll. I fear that profession may have been a poor choice.
People forget that when you poke the bear, sometimes the bear pokes back.
I’ve taken andrew’s posts about fireclean/froglube/seal1/etc with a grain of salt, especially since I’d like to think LAV is smart enough to not risk tarnishing his name/brand by endorsing liquid crisco with an exponential markup as a gun oil. If anything, it became more of an inside joke between my friends and I when one of us would see discounted crisco and let the others know there was a fireclean sale at the grocery store.
Professional troll… that sums his blog up best. He’s like the condescending wonka of the firearms industry… in my opinion, obviously. Not stating a fact 😉
You are an idiot
Look at all the lawyers on SSD! It’s amazing how many people here have law degrees, it just boggles the mind!
Warming up the popcorn…
I do know this, Mr Tuohy ought to seek the immediate assistance of a lawyer. His current online shenanigans won’t go over well when brought up in front of a judge.
This is bullshit. I love fireclean, and have been cooking my eggs in it for over a year. Down with the non believers.
So was FC ever 100% proven to “just” be vegetable/canola oil?
Well according to their own patent application is is a blend of unnamed vegetable oils. People have taken it upon themselves to decide that’s a bad thing. My only complaint with the product is the price when compared to other perfectly good performing alternatives.