B5 Systems

Kitbadger – “I Only Train With Ninjas”

Kitbadger takes a look at the phenomenon of students choosing an experience over gaining experience.

For the full post, visit kitbadger.com/i-only-train-with-ninjas

15 Responses to “Kitbadger – “I Only Train With Ninjas””

  1. dingus says:

    argumentum ad verecundiam is easily the most common and stifling problem in our community.

    • Terry Baldwin says:


      I do not know if argumentum ad verecundiam constitutes the “most common and stifling problem” in the tactical industry / community. However, I would agree that it speaks to an all too common human tendency that should be understood and guarded against. Certainly an excellent point to ponder.


      • Terry Baldwin says:

        …as was Kit Badger’s entire presentation.

        • Dingus says:


          Maybe not for the tactical community as a whole but on an interpersonal level it’s a very reliable fallacy to come across.

          When you need to trot out your direct action resume to validate a point instead of opening up discourse or vetting the idea objectively I think it does indeed become stifling.

          Even being aware of this I find myself falling into it sometimes. Our fraternities are well guarded and well respected and it’s very easy to take a regressive mindset like that.

          I was going through a two month PSD course and one of the instructors was a female. I regarded her with a lot of suspicion since most of the instructors were former JSOC, FBI HRT and other SMU types. I knew just by policy she was incapable of having similar or higher combat experience than me. As the course went on I found out she was a great shooter, extremely knowledgeable in protective ops and other subjects and honestly a very personable instructor.

          She may not have had as many TICs as I have or been on as many raids but she was skilled and brought good ideas to the table. It was a humbling experience for me and a reality check I can periodically need.

          • Terry Baldwin says:


            I had a similar humbling experience years ago at Ft Benning. I was going through what was then called the Infantry Officers Advanced Course (Captains and promotable Lieutenants). We had a leg Armor lieutenant in our small group. He got no respect from those that measured worth based on wings or tabs. However, that guy taught me more about how to write a good operations order than I had learned in my prior years of infantry experience to include Ranger School. He knew the subject cold, had a natural talent for it, and was good at explaining the process. Precisely the same skills Kit Badger was talking about.


  2. JD says:

    This is a garbage argument, and an easy cop-out from a guy that does not have the credentials to claim the “ninja” title.

  3. PPGMD says:

    We should ask, who do the ninjas train with?

    • Matt says:

      Anyone with deep enough pockets, seems like.

    • Terry Baldwin says:


      “Iron sharpens iron”…so as a general rule it is usually most productive to train with people that are at least of equal if not better skill levels than you already possess. So, junior ninjas like to train with other experienced ninjas. However, like most “truisms” that is not always true. Indeed, I have personally learned a great deal while teaching and training with novices. As mentioned by dingus, if you only interact with a narrow group of folks it can lead to groupthink and unwarranted resistance to “outside” innovation.


      • joe_momma says:

        Doesn’t stone and leather also sharpen iron?

        • Mick says:

          Well yes Joe it does.

        • Terry Baldwin says:


          As Mick says, you are correct. However, I was referring to the old biblical saying. It comes in several translations in various versions of the bible, Proverbs 27:17. I prefer this version: “as iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.” It seemed appropriate to the subject of training and the covenant between an instructor and student that we are discussing. But I am ok working with stone and leather too – whatever gets the job done.


  4. SGT Heintz says:

    Just because someone may be an expert in their field does not automatically mean that they are a good teacher, and just because someone has less experience in their field than someone else does not automatically mean that they would be an inferior instructor to the other more experienced person.

    Teaching is itself its own separate skill.

    SGT Heintz

  5. C. Myngs says:

    “I only train with Horshack’s team leader.”
    There you go, FTFY.

  6. Darkhorse says:

    Most in the industry who are in need of training themselves, don’t understand what deficiencies they have themselves. It’s not uncommon for folks to show up and try and be high speed CQB operators, yet don’t have the basic marksmanship (shoot while moving) to become proficient at CQB.

    It all starts with core skills, but rarely do organizations have core skills mastered. How many organizations know how to move together as a team? Costs nothing yet I’d be willing to bet most never practice that.