Sen Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) has introduced a bill called the Clear Visual Distinction Between Military and Law Enforcement Act, from her position on the Senate Armed Services Committee, which restrict federal law enforcement officers from wearing camouflage patterns.
Above, FBI HRT members wear MultiCam pattern uniforms as part of their duties. Photo: FBI
This comes after calls by the Department of Defense for better differentiation between military and law enforcement personnel in the wake of the summer’s riot across the United States. In particular, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, GEN Mark Milley testified before Congress that he was particularly concerned over uniform colors and not equipment.
Sen Duckworth’s Office issued a statement which states, “The Trump Administration’s decision to deploy federal law enforcement officers outfitted in camouflage uniforms in response to those protesting the death of George Floyd and other Black Americans blurred the lines between military servicemembers and law enforcement officers while causing even more fear and division. We must prevent this from happening again.”
According to the bill, the restriction on camouflage use isn’t just military patterns, but all camouflage.
While the bill includes the following exception, “shall not apply to the wearing of a uniform that includes a camouflage pattern that matches the surrounding environment during a period during which a covered Federal law enforcement officer is engaged in a discreet tactical operation where the ability to blend into the surroundings is judged to be necessary for the success of the operation,” it also requires a biannual report to Congress, including dates, operation name and justification for invoking the exception.
In late summer, both DoJ and DHS publicly mentioned their intention to transition many of their personnel to solid colors. This will most likely be Green which those agencies have used in the past, before transitioning to MultiCam several years ago. At the time they wore OD. Now, based upon supply chain availability of materials, it will probably be Ranger Green. Although, in some instances we could see a return to Black clothing and equipment.
For uniform suppliers, this would be a boon. However, there is still no requirement that non-DoD federal entities buy American made clothing and individual equipment.
America’s greatest threat is the democrat party and their militant arm ANTIFA/BLM, and they should be required to wear black and red Nazi uniforms for clear identification.
This is contrary to statements recently made by FBI director Chris Wray who described right wing extremists as the greatest threat to our nation. The good news is some of them already wear Nazi uniforms for clear identification.
Where are they??? Keep hitting that bowl, sure your parents of proud of you!
A pile of bullshit
Righties (and the woke left) are effing nuts, though they dont nearly have the body count as US government agencies and the corporations that control them.
Rapacious oligarchs and their surveillance state are the greatest threat to our nation. Something that both sides are responsible for.
Smells like Russian to me
2019 was the most dangerous year for domestic terrorism since 1995 (Oklahoma City Bombing). fbi.gov/news/testimony/worldwide-threats-to-the-homeland-091720 has more information if you are curious about real terror threats. I encourage everyone to be aware of these threats. TheScrutineer: Russians finance right wing extremist groups in Europe and have remote training sites for terrorist groups. The Russian Imperial Movement was designated a terrorist organization by DoS this year. I am unaware if they are active in the US however.
Yup! Antifa(fags) and BLM, soon to be designated domestic terror organizations as well! Funny you cry about “right wing-extremism” but they end with “you are unaware if they are active in the U.S. however?”
Really good sluth work! Go smoke more pot!
Good Evening Ed. If you reread my postings you will see that I am not crying about right wing extremism, but rather pointing out law enforcement evaluations of that threat. I also ask that you reread my statement about the Russian Imperial Movement. I am unaware if they operate in the United States. Not all right wing terror organizations are the Russian Imperial Movement. If you would like to know more I suggest following the fbi.gov link I posted above or watch some of the deputy director’s congressional statements. I am glad you get a kick out of my name. That is why I picked it! It may sadden you to learn however that I do not use narcotics and I lcpl does not reflect my rank.
Whoa you guys are frothing at the mouth so bad you’re frindly firing each other.
Thanks Putin!
It’s Bush’s fault?
Maybe I’m late….
This thread contains a few alarmingly half-witted comments, which glaze over many CURRENT, INARGUABLE facts: (1) The leadership of BLM literally said, ‘If this administration doesn’t change we will tear it down.’ (2) We have heavily armed militia groups in the US who claim to be “not fu**ing around,” and openly demand “reparations.” Google this phrase and Georgia, if you doubt this point. (3) Large groups of violent, lawless rioters, are–as I write this–burning and looting business districts, and neighborhoods. in MULTIPLE locations, across America. (4) These same violent groups are demanding that lawmakers and politicians “defund police.” (5) There is FAR MORE EVIDENCE supporting the point that people who hate police are already conducting assaults against police. Google the words, “Officers Ambushed,” to see my point. Then, look it up on Bing and DuckDuckGo to see what other search engines are rendering.
After reading this well-substantiated list of facts, does anyone really think that Americans should defund police AND take their gear, too!? One only has to watch the nightly news to see that politically driven anarchists and left-wing extremists are more violent, hateful, and present than ever before. I say police should retain possession of the small advantages afforded by camouflage and other types of military equipment. I am absolutely all right with arming and equipming the people who maintain law and order in this time of, very real, instability.
Russia: a country with a GDP smaller than Italy’s with a faltering economy and geopolitical realities that will make its position increasingly untenable in the 21st century.
You russian conspiracy peddlers are a goofy bunch.
The *greatest* threat to the average american is the NSA and its surveillance program, galvanized by the war on drugs and war on terrorism, in addition to the incestuous relationship between corporate (especially big tech) interests and our government.
Something democrats and republicans have bipartisan consensus about.
Considering that it says:
“This comes after calls by the Department of Defense for better differentiation between military and law enforcement personnel in the wake of the summer’s riot across the United States.”
And:
“The bill includes the following exception, “shall not apply to the wearing of a uniform that includes a camouflage pattern that matches the surrounding environment during a period during which a covered Federal law enforcement officer is engaged in a discreet tactical operation where the ability to blend into the surroundings is judged to be necessary for the success of the operation,””
Honestly, that sounds reasonable.
So:
– DoD want to make sure the distinction is obvious
– The bill doesn’t change anything when it’s tactically necessary
Basically it’s to keep cops from pretending they’re SOF when they do crowd control. Seems fair.
That might piss off some wannabe tacticools, but honestly, that’s stuff that’s obvious and should already be done without legislating. It’s just sad that legislation is required.
This ^^
Sorry. You’ve obviously never had to write a report to Congress.
The reporting requirement alone will ensure this doesn’t happen. No chief is going to want to highlight the use of camouflage and the reasoning why the whole mission required it so it can become a political football.
I’ll happily concede (just based on the above release) that the report to congress seems like unnecessary. Congress’ regular oversight mechanism should be enough.
+10 for both Will and Lad.
Restriction and reporting would only apply to Fed LE
A non political logical reply – what’s wrong with you?
So the guys on my SWAT team that were SOF are wannabe SOF because they wear multi-cam at both jobs? I’ve never heard them say a word about those of us that weren’t SOF wearing multi-cam. In fact we had multi-cam before .mil called it OCP for general issue. It’s not fiscally feasible for my dept. to require us to buy different uniforms for different missions. I cover an urban/suburban and areas in the back country. We need a uniform that blends in to all environments. But please keep denigrating cops, we love it, especially from folks that have never walked in our shoes. I’m grateful for your service, some appreciation for mine would be nice.
Your comment was reasonable until you said we pretend to be SOF and “wannabe tacticools”
This only applies to federal agencies and won’t end up becoming law.
This is very reasonable. Having been in the Army for 13 years as an infantry officer, this is a no brainer. they should be wearing blue, black, OD, ranger green etc. No need for camo unless its actually required. Hell, they can wear multicam black if they really want to.
You know whats funny about all of this? something that dipshits like Duckworth and other politician numb nuts generals forget?
Many in Border patrol, US Marshals, and other federal agencies *WERE* military, particularly, special operations forces.
Somebody needs to toss duckworth out of her wheelchair into the cold where she belongs.
It’s not the Democrats. It’s CJCS.
https://www.rollcall.com/2020/07/09/milley-we-need-a-clear-distinction-between-police-and-military/
And to clarify – General Milley isn’t wrong, and he isn’t a Nazi.
Honestly, I don’t understand the logic that takes you from “don’t let the public confuse law enforcement with military” to “only a totalitarian police state would want to differentiate between military and law enforcement – they must be Nazis.”
Seriously…
But he’s openly political.
Sadly.
He’s openly political because he didn’t want to be used as a prop in a photograph taken in front of one specific religion’s church?
Here’s how the Australians do it. They have this one right.
https://theprint.in/world/why-australias-defence-chief-pulled-out-3-of-his-officers-from-a-press-conference/214186/
This would be good for perceptial management.
Also, a berry-like ammendment for all USG purchases, or state or municipalities that recieve federal grants, should be made.
…because more gov’t is always the answer.
Thank you to Sen Duckworth for this: she is absolutely correct. Many of these units, whom I support 100% BTW, have some sort of military envy and policing has become increasingly more militaristic in, appearance and some tactics, since 9/11. There is absolutely no reason for any sworn federal or state officer of any kind to wear any camouflage, especially Multicam as it further obfuscates the intention of the officers and their jobs to the general public, vs. the job of the US military. That is all….
Politics aside, (that’s exactly what Duckface is engaged in..) This is the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC) she sits on. How and why does the SASC get to dictate what Fed, State, County and City/Township LE can wear and when??? That should fall under the DOJ and DHS to modify (if they choose to) and states and local govt. can tell her to sit and spin!
If you wan to destroy America, keep voting for Democrats and phony ass RHINO’s, only way to keep America free is to vote out the career politicians and get actual citizens who give a fuck!
Ed,
There is only mention of Federal LE, not State or local. Reading is fundemental.
So is spelling. 🙂
What about civilians wearing camo like DoD? It will not just stop at Federal law enforcement. This proposed bill is just not acceptable and unreasonable.
I guess Duckworth means blurring the lines between a peace protest and the rioters, looters, ANTIFA, BLM, and anarchists is not enough for her to not condemn those actions over the last 3 or 4 months. She should propose a bill to outlaw these groups and individuals from using black uniform colors so they will not blur the lines with dark colored uniforms of the local and state law enforcement agencies.
Not a big fan of Tammy Duckworth, but I’m for it.
Been for it for awhile now.
IMO, all those E4s who got out on failed APFT/ABCP are now running the PDs, and have access to the taxpayers pocket book which they are using to fund all the “SOF gear” for their departments that they couldn’t have/wear while they were in.
bout time.
I think the bill should also include the provision SOF shouldn’t be wearing 5.11 clothing to make them look like cops.
BINGO! Guys in regular infantry units are doing that crap now too…
Duckworth isn’t going to call out the ANTIFA/BLM rioters wearing military kit like IIIA armor but she’s concerned about DHS cops wearing multicam? Fuck this POG bitch. She obviously relies on her “MUH VETERAN” status to influence politics. How is that any different?
What are you saying? That you want the Feds to dictate what private citizens are wearing?
The Senate Armed Forces Commitee and the Joint Chiefs are only looking to rein it their own Fed LEO on duty when it’s not tactically justifiable. That’s it. How is that even controversial.
Did anyone read the actual legislation? She wants every agency to submit a BI-ANNUAL REPORT that lists every instance someone in their agency wore camo including the date, time, place and reason.
Give me a break. Talk about creating an entirely new bureaucracy. How many well paid government workers will either be diverted from performing the functions of the agency or, better yet, more government workers hired for this?
I was kind of OK with the concept up until I read that part. The Bill needs to be voted down just for that reason. You want to make it a rule? Do it. But don’t nanny state the agencies into an unrealistic and burdensome reporting process.
Some of you are clearly functioning with below average cognitive abilities.
A Senator doesn’t have the power to restrict what citizens (I.E. protestors on the right or left) can and can’t wear to their protests, rallies and riots. If you (or an antifa member) want to spend a few thousand dollars and show up you can, because you (and the rioters) are Americans. If the senate was to try and dictate what citizens can and can’t wear you all would be up in arms. Serious hypocrisy going on here.
She doesn’t have the power to dictate what state and local LE wear, and she isn’t trying to.
There is absolutely nothing unreasonable here and it’s time LE start looking like police officers and not military. The militarization of police departments over the last 20 years had lead to a loss of trust in LE, especially when many departments and agencies will take just about anyone and give them a badge and a gun. Couldn’t pass a selection or even make it past junior enlisted in the regular forces? That’s cool, we’ll still give you some Cryes and an Ops Core and let you loose on the American public…
Hmmm, you mean like elected officials mandating wearing masks outside at sporting events even though people are “social distancing”, you mean like that???? It’s not a law in every state and the state legislature did not pass such a law in many states. Think about those apples!
These things have nothing to do with each other…
But it does cost the us economy ~$56 every day for each person not wearing a mask. Banking numbers not government numbers… so just put a mask on like you put on your other significantly less comfortable PPE (like a plate carrier)when it makes sense.
Bill, you sound like a fucking idiot! I’d rather cough in your face, you fucking pussy! ?
You have no clue what federal law enforcement agents have done career wise or what their expertise is, particularly, units who “wear cryes and ops core”.
Many were former SOF types or combat arms.
Im all for policing the police, but this moral outrage against military uniforms, particularly, among certain federal response units, is idiotic.
Duckworth is a dumb fuck.
Not inherently a bad thing to keep LEO/mil visually distinct.
But in the grand scheme of things, I don’t think we really need another driver of federal bureaucratic paper-waste, not to mention a couple hundred million dollars in wasted equipment.
The badges and insignia stating affiliation aren’t distinct enough?
The giant freaking placards on the front and back of their vests that say ATF/FBI/DHS/USMS POLICE aren’t distinct enough?
The marked vehicles with blue lights and sirens that 99.9% of military vehicles lack aren’t distinct enough?
Unless you’re of diminished capacity or functionally illiterate, it is not difficult to tell police and military apart. At all.
This sounds reasonable to me.
TLDR:
1. Solid colors when not doing tacticool stuff / hiding in a bush
2. Wearing camo only when doing tactical stuff / hiding in a bush
I don’t get why everyone is upset.
Theyre upset because they want cops to have no rules but the protesters to be outlawed.
They want the same cops who will come confiscate their rifles to have every conceivable advantage.
This cop worship on the right is worrisome. Last I remember we distrusted the state. We didn’t want it’s thugs heavily armed and free from legal recourse.
Cops want to spend all their money looking like Delta Force. I have no problem with them reigning it in. Cops are indistinguishable from SOF units now except for their fat bellies and poor tactics.
Please tell the class how Border Patrol’s BORTAC has fat bellies and poor tactics let alone LARPer fantasies… I’m pretty sure they’re one of the main groups the leftists have their panties in a twist about after certain incidents in Portland.
Beanus, you just sound like someone who’s bitter they could be neither Delta nor a cop.
Cope harder.
It’ll end up being solid colors always, because keeping a record of every time every person in an organization wears any article of camouflage is massively burdensome. I suspect most agencies will destroy or dispose of their camo to eliminate the chance of missing a line in the paperwork.
The real problem here is the cost of buying new uniforms to replace a few hundred million dollars worth of perfectly serviceable fatigues.
Too easy, they can cover the cost with the sale of a few MRAPs.
As iam old enough to have heard about the”fifth column” and that thereis o better way to destroy a good case with “agent provocateurs”
…think about what servesthe best the militarisation of LE…
but the thing that it is easy and cheap for LE-Agencies to get Armed Forces equipment because, there are almost no regulations and the budgets are so constructed that the Armed Forces have enough stuff to give without problems to L-E.
Thats very generous and forward thinking…for the government and DoD
as they were knowing “something”
but pencilpusher,who know or how did the industry know…
that there will be the need for more stuff and which party are the guys and girls of the armamentproducing etc very close… or closest-
As many people, who know me, say: “the hun” is no big thinkr and has no ideas,whats going on
I am actually 100% for this. I was sick of people claiming the State Troopers shooting them with pepperball guns were National Guard. We got a lot of flak in Minneapolis for something we didn’t do. https://www.youtube.com/gcds-iap/unavailable.html
Sounds good to me. I like to see the state when it sends its thugs to infringe on my rights.
Whew. Thank God for this. I can’t think of a bigger problem for Congress to tackle. Way to go, POG!
This thread is amazing 10/10 – would target for a campaign of external influence for the purposes of increasing national turmoil.
The solution seems simple to me: Keep Multi Cam / OCP for the military and let LE choose what they want from a plethora of great camo thats out on the market.
Works ok in Canada.
You wont find LE in CadPat.
Regards
Brian Kroon
There you go again with National Socialist being right-wing. They are left wing socialists, just national, not COMINTERN.
Umm… Nazis aren’t right wing? National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Go with their actions, not their labels…
I also agree with differentiation of uniforms, but NOT a Senate Bill to handle it. Should be at Dept. level, otherwise every Dept will have a Bureau of Camouflage Usage Compliance, complete with top-down bureaucracy to include workfare Facsimile Operator II.
This is fine with me. My team is going from Multicam 5.11 shit to ranger green Crye and Arc’teryx instead. Thank you, American tax payer. ?
I think worth noting this concern mostly comes from people complaining about Feds with proper external ID having to use rental vans to conduct business in a reasonable manner due to failure of local city policies. News was blasting that story like suddenly no one has ever seen an undercover bust before and then only a small percentage of people made it to the end of the story, IF EVEN REPORTED, that those people detained were fairly quickly released.
And what really gets me is all this fake Military support. Almost every twitter chump that acts like all Police are bad and they support the National Guard are going to shit on the Military just as hard the immediate moment they prevent them from doing some crazy shit.
If agencies want to wear something to distinguish themselves that isn’t a crazy idea, but what is the final achievement when the conflict here was a government agency of some form trying to deal with a riot situation? There seems to be this flawed notion that whenever the National Guard is used a riot is going to suddenly decide to behave because they respect them more. The same people complaining are still going to have plenty to complain about when their riot is disrupted. Additionally people see what they want to see. I can be doing a grocery run on with fairly boring boots and a big backpack and people seem to think that is enough to ask me if I’m in the Military. Common people perceptions gonna stretch whatever they want to stretch…
Then this slides over to the buzzword bingo. I expect “Militarization of Police” to come up over at joker discussions at arstechnica, but pretty sad to see it here. As a gear guy, all I see from people who say that is they wish the Police had shitty equipment so they themselves can sleep better at night. Sorry the Military industry makes things that function well that Police can use as well. Apparently many people would rather Police wore clown outfits because public perception is priority 1. This has been going on for quite some time like complaining Moto Officer boots look too Military when it is just a proven reasonable thing to wear to prevent injury with normal motorcycle activities.
Maybe let’s save “Militarization of Police” for when the Police start calling in artillery… Almost every time the real translation is “I didn’t like how the Police was deployed”
All this weak ass ANTIFA talk acting like ever patrol officer has on a SOF loadout when there are still programs out there just trying to make sure small town officers have bare minimum soft armor vests. It’s almost as if Police agencies have as much uniqueness as the areas they are a part of, insert mind blown gif.
Dude, nail hit!!! Couldn’t agree more, 100% Utah!!!
Spot-on. You pretty much said what I was going to if I hadn’t seen it by the end of these comments.
Asking for a friend…
What happened first – FBI HRT or BORTAC issuing Multicam or the Army formally adopting Scorpion OCP?
I find the wide scale use of Multicam in civilian law enforcement personally distasteful, but where was the hue and cry over M81 Woodland or MARPAT? I have trained with SWAT-ish teams that wore both.
Senator Duckworth’s Bill is a dog whistle to the false narrative of increasing police militarization. The left wing doesn’t want to hear it, but there is less paramilitary focus in US law enforcement today than any time in the 20th and 21st Centuries. Remember she “represents” Chicago, which has 582 homicides and 2589 Shot & Wounded year to date…
I’ve always been fond of OD and Ranger Green. So hopefully this brings more products to the market. The only issue I see is logistical, meaning if multicam is used to reduce spending, then we have to do a cost-benifit analysis to the cost of fielding a new uniform. While I understand there are tactical situations that require camouflage, i wonder how this reporting can be streamlined to prevent holdups. I would like to see the legislative proposal to enforce political oversight of federal forces while also being efficient. What is the real plan day to day?
the actual Potus admires autocratic leaders…who are tough on democratic movements and humanrightsgroups…
And the USA was always a ligthouse for democratic people overseas and abroad.
We in Germany are thankful for the good things,that americans fought fachism and died for ideals.
We triy to get to image a soldier as a “citizen in uniform/battledress and german police got still to the end of the 80ties the good old MG42 and similar stugg in stock in mint quality for fighting down “sedition” and riots-just in case 😉
not for hosing down rightwingers or NAZIs, but for insurgents from the left…
We in Germany have Statut/law that he Bundeswehr is not for engagement against citizens in the interior!
Exept a suicide passenger plane on the way to a full packed footballstadium…but there is no standing order to shot this plane down!!! It is the pilot who dicides to push the button…
This kind of mindset is democratic and taught by the americh soldiers, who died for die for this grat american vertues.To dicides whats matters Lives or Orders(Politics)
But in the moment many real friends of democracies, dont see a priciatiom for such thinking and acting the real american way
and i know that some of real real americans dont understand that some stranger offers his (unwelcome?!) views
but i see the american project in danger because of this clear and present division of your wonderful country.
That the Repubilcicans dont talk to Democrats,,,viseversa
Even in cold war times the USA delivered wheat and other stuff to the UssR an d they talked and listened to each other with official and unofficial aims,of course.
when i made anybody of the readers mad at me-no problem
but thinking and telling whats on my heart and mind is still not crime
S i would be lcalled a “concerned citizen “of this one and only WORLD
And dont forget Suntzu:
When you know yourself and your enemy, you will be vicrorious….and so on”
But the same is to say about allies and friends
And China is great at creating friends and allies and custumer, which have needs.
Aand China is doing …frigging good.
Take a look at the MRE tasting of the PLA or the review of the knives at BladeHQ and Knifecenter on yt.
I hope i wasnt to annoying or have shown to much hybris in a foreign language
And camo-niforms show a clear mindset of the way to solve problems.
.they are like the use of tasers/heatrays..
no need anymore to talk or listen to difficult people… who is actually your next
sorry that seems to be the present american way of communication
Stay well my dear reader even when we havent the same opinion, concept or perspective what matters,ok?!)
and this my viewpoint as a human.
i haqve extrem difficulties to see my next as a target, who deserves a civil warand extinction. the USA thaught me from my eary childhood so much
idealism,communication and leadershipan courage and iam really no idealist(StartrekToS!)
and idont see that in the USA anymore …
I DONT FORGET THE PRIVILEGE MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SACRIFIECE OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS.
ANY KIND OF FASCHISM/DICTATORSHIP IS DISHOURING THEM!!
And what is plucking people from the streets and putting them in windowless vans???
Ah we in Germany know a bloody Sunday too,on July 17th 1932 in Hamburg Altona .
Communists aren’t people.
Yes. They literally are people, I don’t agree with their philosophy, I don’t think it works, but they are still people.
What the fuck is with some of y’all and your propensity to completely dehumanize someone for having a different outlook than you?
The total lack of human decency, awareness, and understanding in toxic absolutist statements like that, coming from anyone regardless of political position, is far more alarming than any differences in worldview. I’m more scared of ideas like that making the world a worse place than I am of communists.
Communism always makes the world a worse place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being completely intolerant of it.
Communism has killed more people than any other ideology in history. They dehumanize themselves by being involved in something so monstrous.
Communism and Nazism must be destroyed every time they rear their ugly heads.
A key problem with all police in the United States is that they are trained to fear risk and to respond in an aggressive manner to shut down any possible perceived risk. They’re operating from the point of view that they shouldn’t have to accept any risk.
They’ve been militarized and I think almost everyone recognizes that as a problem. But when they picked up the armored vehicles, machine guns, plate carriers, grew the tacticool beards / clipped a tacticool haircut, and acquired the other bits of flair and costume accessories to make them “combatants”, they didn’t pick up any of the military’s discipline when it came to accepting risk as part of the job.
If a 20 year old corporal in Afghanistan or Iraq can be trained to accept a degree of risk and not open fire on every low-riding vehicle that moves in his direction, and not open fire on any sketchy person whose hands aren’t visible who might have a gun, and not use lethal force on any person who’s simply uncooperative or belligerent – why can’t cops exercise similar restraint?
They can – except they’ve been conditioned to believe that they shouldn’t have to.
They’ve been told their job is really really dangerous and getting home safe is their #1 top priority. The Supreme Court has explicitly told them that they have no duty to protect. That corporal in the desert knows that getting home safe ISN’T his #1 top priority – it’s achieving the mission objectives, within the rules of engagement, even if he gets hurt or killed. That is the mindset of a warrior who knows his first duty isn’t to himself. Sadly it seems a lot of police want the costume and the honor but not the commitment to others. “Serve and Protect” should mean everyone, even the criminal being arrested.
Not all LE are bad, but my goodness, everything you describe is most of them. They could care less about our military and what it stands for, etc.
I don’t have today’s ‘alternate uniform’ look that our former/retired community wears and presents as, so I can play dumb to find out their true compass heading. I’m not shocked, most of the good guys I served with who thought they were going to be LE officers chose to do something else once they found out the many wrong truths in American LE. These were the first reports of what was going on in our LE depts., so I could only imagine what was going on in rural areas.
Never had a problem with the Polizei or Carabinieri. What a true, professional LE force that delivers law and order, never seen nor heard them profiling anyone (even the gypsies)…..but here, the whiney folks who say they want law and order will then cry about tyranny and their rights. SMH
^ What he said. Sky soldiers!
Complains about militarization, then proceeds to say how military does it better…whatever bro.
Looks like you want to jump on in with the “will never be happy unless a cop just lets themselves be murdered” crowd.
Not every problem can be solved by the equivalent of holding back letting whoever do whatever they want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK2HTrSOo-E
Just maybe, doing a convoy mission and managing not to kill everyone around you on the way there is a bit different than specifically having to go domestic violence event and having to handle it.
Again, fake military support where by your “standards” the Bin Laden raid should have been conducted with only less lethal means and any on our side that died in the process…o well they knew it was their duty.
Every group has room for improvement, but shit, too many people want Special Operations level qualifications for Police and then turn around and say; well, best we can do is $15 an hour.
And for fukes sake are we all just going to ignore how many LEOs are prior military where they are drawn to the idea of continuing to serve, but appreciate not being away from their families? It is NOT an insignificant number.
MilSpecMonkey, where did you serve in the past 30+ years?
Bin Laden raid, the fact you mention a kill/capture mission by a SMU says everything.
If these military armed and equipped SWAT teams were actually executing BD6 into Trap Houses in the ‘hood’ and raiding Jimmy Joe’s cocaine spot in the burbs they’d get a lot of credibility with many of us. But since they aren’t, I can’t get behind the posturing of wearing gear meant to fight Motorized Rifle Regiments.
Your ‘give them a break’ rationale is dangerously a problem. Yeah, we know exactly who these former military members are. People who did a lot of fighting usually saw enough after about 5-7 yrs, so they’re what a friend of mine call Skill level 1 for life. Their operational perspective is that of a SAW gunner.
We ask 18 yr old privates to be professionals on the battlefield, but a civilian or former military guy/gal wearing a badge gets a pass because he’s not making what? That’s their choice, nobody forced them to go to the Academy, just like we didn’t force young men/women to go to Ft. Benning/MCRD. This is the uniform problem, we want to hold them in high regard when they aren’t taking seriously their position of trust.
A7, Out!
The raid example is obviously used to show the ridiculous expectations, but I appreciate the deflection effort as apparently I have to be a space shuttle doorgunner to make a reasonable point. Oh shit, the kid made a point, let’s say he wasn’t there, didn’t serve, and compare the clearly theoretical example to the real one, sick burn yo.
The give me a break attitude is because you say shit like “I can’t get behind the posturing of wearing gear meant to fight Motorized Rifle Regiments.”
Where does this go for you dude? Like how can you not see this is the equivalent of going to a construction site and saying no steel-toe boots because it gives the wrong impression. What is the perfect balance of someone else’s job loadout and protecting your feelings?
We all could use continuous professional development, but you are going into this argument saying people who served 5-7 years are skill level 1 for life? What the fuck is that attitude? Again where does that even go? Are we supposed to have cops with 10 years experience in “something” first to then be qualified? Right back to what I already said; everyone wants the SOF qualified cop but doesn’t want to pay to make it happen.
Just because I point out stupid arguments, doesn’t mean I don’t think there is room for Police improvement. Ya’ll just picking a tactical side like a sports team when there is no shortage of examples of the Military doing things that could have gone better. It is almost as if dealing with war and violence is never going to be easy and clear cut…
And wheres YOUR background Attack7? How are you gonna ask for a background without putting your own on display?
KimchiCommando: MY background? The callsign gives it away if you served.
Deja Vu.
I remember when a similar conversation reared it’s head during the Obama administration.
It’s weird isn’t it?
Oh man such great hits as the great DHS ammo purchase conspiracy theories back then. Turns out, most people have no idea what large departments normally need for training.